Grieving for a Friend
- Thread starter Petzel
- Start date
Hey Petzel; I am sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences. I had gone through a similar situation where someone had poisoned a desperate friend about 20 years ago by overdose. One thing that you need to remember and keep first and foremost in your mind is that he did not do it because of you. In your own way, being a friend most likely helped him more than you can imagine. So, if you are blaming yourself, please don't. You did what you had to do and the both of you have been richer in spirit for it. The best way to deal with his death is, as many have advised here; spend time with mutual friends, remember and reminisce on the good times, all the good that came out of your friendship with him, pray for him, and eventually let it go. We never forget our friends, and they live on in our memories. we must get on with our lives, eventually; that is what they would want for us. It is difficult to understand that, with his emotional and mental issues, his suffering was way too much for him to handle, and he is in a better place. No one can understand what he went through. We have to accept the fact that he suffered. You were there to help him as much as you could, just by being a caring friend. Wish him peace and eternal rest.He did reach out for help. He was seeing a shrink on a regular basis but I guess it didn't help him enough.
It is hard to know what to say exactly... seems like you might have two concerns, one with the death itself, and another with how it happened. Are you upset because of how your relationship with this person was? You say he reached out, but clearly that didn't help him. You say you haven't seen him much lately - were you estranged? Or was he withdrawn from everyone?
Death is the fundamental problem of life. Not existing just doesn't make sense, for one thing, and then there is the issue of "what's the point of doing anything if it just disappears suddenly one day?" When we are young, these issues just don't come up, but as we age and experience health issues and the deaths of others, it becomes personal and central.
So no easy answers. I think you have posted that you are an existentialist, here is a link about existentialist views of death <http://philosophynow.org/issues/27/Death_Faith_and_Existentialism>
I am a Buddhist, so my take is a little different. Notions of reincarnation are tricky... too often it is a cop out on the real issue, which is to deal with life INCLUDING death. Suicide is particularly problematic, as it is clearly an attempt to escape something in life, and Buddhism suggests that we reincarnate because we still have stuff to deal with in life. So if you don't like life, reincarnation can possibly be a very nasty problem - you really really can't run away.
This isn't to judge your friend - any of us might find a time in life when we can't go on, and decide to end it. I'm pretty clear where that would be for me. Not all suicides are running away, maybe sometimes life really is just too tough to go on. I saw a guy on the subway a while ago who didn't have a face. I'm not as brave as he is.
And death isn't the worst thing IMO, living in pointless suffering is. But remember: not all suffering is pointless.
One way to think about reincarnation is that something in you will continue on, but the part of you that is thinking about the situation it is NOT that part. The part that continues on is what you experience BEFORE you have a chance to think about it. When you see a friend on the street, that initial "feeling" you have before you think about it is the "consciousness" that will continue. There is a very small gap between that initial experience, and then thinking about it. Meditation is a way to notice the gap, then open it up so you can spend more time in that experience of "original self."
Here's a link to a long article on death which outlines various approaches, including the Buddhist. <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/walshe/wheel261.html>
And if you aren't up to reading, please feel free to message me if you need someone to chat with.
The worst day of my life was when my first cat died... that experience was invaluable to me. My father died a couple of years after, and I found myself much more able to deal with that constructively. Confronting my cat's death and the practice of meditation helped me a great deal.
Death is the fundamental problem of life. Not existing just doesn't make sense, for one thing, and then there is the issue of "what's the point of doing anything if it just disappears suddenly one day?" When we are young, these issues just don't come up, but as we age and experience health issues and the deaths of others, it becomes personal and central.
So no easy answers. I think you have posted that you are an existentialist, here is a link about existentialist views of death <http://philosophynow.org/issues/27/Death_Faith_and_Existentialism>
I am a Buddhist, so my take is a little different. Notions of reincarnation are tricky... too often it is a cop out on the real issue, which is to deal with life INCLUDING death. Suicide is particularly problematic, as it is clearly an attempt to escape something in life, and Buddhism suggests that we reincarnate because we still have stuff to deal with in life. So if you don't like life, reincarnation can possibly be a very nasty problem - you really really can't run away.
This isn't to judge your friend - any of us might find a time in life when we can't go on, and decide to end it. I'm pretty clear where that would be for me. Not all suicides are running away, maybe sometimes life really is just too tough to go on. I saw a guy on the subway a while ago who didn't have a face. I'm not as brave as he is.
And death isn't the worst thing IMO, living in pointless suffering is. But remember: not all suffering is pointless.
One way to think about reincarnation is that something in you will continue on, but the part of you that is thinking about the situation it is NOT that part. The part that continues on is what you experience BEFORE you have a chance to think about it. When you see a friend on the street, that initial "feeling" you have before you think about it is the "consciousness" that will continue. There is a very small gap between that initial experience, and then thinking about it. Meditation is a way to notice the gap, then open it up so you can spend more time in that experience of "original self."
Here's a link to a long article on death which outlines various approaches, including the Buddhist. <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/walshe/wheel261.html>
And if you aren't up to reading, please feel free to message me if you need someone to chat with.
The worst day of my life was when my first cat died... that experience was invaluable to me. My father died a couple of years after, and I found myself much more able to deal with that constructively. Confronting my cat's death and the practice of meditation helped me a great deal.
Hey Petzel; I am sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences. I had gone through a similar situation where someone had poisoned a desperate friend about 20 years ago by overdose. One thing that you need to remember and keep first and foremost in your mind is that he did not do it because of you. In your own way, being a friend most likely helped him more than you can imagine. So, if you are blaming yourself, please don't. You did what you had to do and the both of you have been richer in spirit for it. The best way to deal with his death is, as many have advised here; spend time with mutual friends, remember and reminisce on the good times, all the good that came out of your friendship with him, pray for him, and eventually let it go. We never forget our friends, and they live on in our memories. we must get on with our lives, eventually; that is what they would want for us. It is difficult to understand that, with his emotional and mental issues, his suffering was way too much for him to handle, and he is in a better place. No one can understand what he went through. We have to accept the fact that he suffered. You were there to help him as much as you could, just by being a caring friend. Wish him peace and eternal rest.
Nicely put.
So you want to be a big man and bait Petzel during his distress? How insensitive. And congratulations on your anonymous courage.How did your friend comitt suicide? Jumping? Hanging? Gunshot? Poison? Suffocation?
Like him or not, this is serious real world stuff, not fantasy bulletin board world.
Suicide brings a whole new dimension to grieving such as homicide does. Often times the people left behind have questions that will just never be answered and so therefore people fall short of the process as they can not accept the death without the questions being answered. Therefore , no closure.
This could very well be something that you can not resolve on your own and professional help may be needed. Quite a few distress centers that deal with hotlines for suicide, etc have support groups of the people left behind to help address these issues. You would be wise to google those in you local area and discuss these feelings there.
While TERB may be a place that is a internet home, it may not be the best place to get the help and support you need.
Sorry for your loss
This could very well be something that you can not resolve on your own and professional help may be needed. Quite a few distress centers that deal with hotlines for suicide, etc have support groups of the people left behind to help address these issues. You would be wise to google those in you local area and discuss these feelings there.
While TERB may be a place that is a internet home, it may not be the best place to get the help and support you need.
Sorry for your loss
Possibly freedomlover is pondering how he's going to do it himself, if it comes to that.How did your friend comitt suicide? Jumping? Hanging? Gunshot? Poison? Suffocation?
A couple of quotes:
"Suicide is a long term solution to a short term problem." - unknown
"When you die they finally let you off the hook." - Bob Dylan
Petzel, my most very sincere condolences.
I hope this helps:
[SIZE=+2]"Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there; I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow,
I am the diamond glints on snow,
I am the sun on ripened grain,
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning’s hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight.
I am the soft starlight at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry,
I am not there; I did not die."[/SIZE]
I hope this helps:
[SIZE=+2]"Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there; I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow,
I am the diamond glints on snow,
I am the sun on ripened grain,
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning’s hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight.
I am the soft starlight at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry,
I am not there; I did not die."[/SIZE]
I am really sorry to hear that, my friend. It is so sad.
My family has had a disturbingly high amount of suicides, so I know what you are going through. It is a very awkward aftermath.... instead of people offering their condolances, they ask morbid questions, walk away, or avoid you. Family dynamics are ruined or strained
Will tell you that I had a bunch at once....and that all the ones involved very young people.
To say it didn't affect me would be lying, I got into this huge black hole that I didn't really know I was in.
Strangely enough, it was a full meditation program (and a very demanding one) in a hospital that got me back on my feet.
I almost had to start a new life from that point forward. It wasn't really a new life, but a sequel if you will, a starting point.
I also had to gain acceptance of what happened, accept it. Accept it as their decision and move forward. Until I accepted it, I would dwell in it.
Besides this- time does help you gain an acceptance. It never goes away, it is always there, but you somehow come to terms.
Strangely, I do have to deal with suicide regularly in my job and it makes me meet the matter head on.
I am not an expert on this, but I thought I would share my experience and I hope it helps.
Good luck.... I know we talked many times before, so I'll always listen. I don't know if I am the best person offering advice, but I just put this out and hopefully it helps somehow.
My family has had a disturbingly high amount of suicides, so I know what you are going through. It is a very awkward aftermath.... instead of people offering their condolances, they ask morbid questions, walk away, or avoid you. Family dynamics are ruined or strained
Will tell you that I had a bunch at once....and that all the ones involved very young people.
To say it didn't affect me would be lying, I got into this huge black hole that I didn't really know I was in.
Strangely enough, it was a full meditation program (and a very demanding one) in a hospital that got me back on my feet.
I almost had to start a new life from that point forward. It wasn't really a new life, but a sequel if you will, a starting point.
I also had to gain acceptance of what happened, accept it. Accept it as their decision and move forward. Until I accepted it, I would dwell in it.
Besides this- time does help you gain an acceptance. It never goes away, it is always there, but you somehow come to terms.
Strangely, I do have to deal with suicide regularly in my job and it makes me meet the matter head on.
I am not an expert on this, but I thought I would share my experience and I hope it helps.
Good luck.... I know we talked many times before, so I'll always listen. I don't know if I am the best person offering advice, but I just put this out and hopefully it helps somehow.
