H1N1 Flu Scam -Truth or Dare?

[PurpleMonkey]

Is it a conspiracy by Rupert Murdoch (Powerful Media Mogul) and Rockafeller's army?

Is this the truth or do we dare to object?

There is a live stream discussing the Conspiracy Theory of H1N1:

http://www.fluscam.com/HOME.html


So I am now confused, do I or don't I get the H1N1 flu shot??!?!!!!!??!?!?!?! Am I to believe Dr. Horowitz et al, who is he for credentials? There was a woman in her 20's in the states this week that got the vaccine and now she has some sort of nerve problem (faulty speaking, walking and passes out) for the rest of her life because she got the vaccine. Another incident I read was a kid got Autism because of the shot. Most of the media in North America (esp. Canada) WILL NOT put that in the news. Fuck! What the hell???!!!

Others claim the "research" for this vaccine was done under "influenced controlled conditions" therefore, we do not know the TRUE side effects of this vaccine, could take months or years before we realize it has long-term consequences.

Let's discuss.

 

[fuji]

Your question was answered on another thread with information debunking that website, so since you persist in posting it I have to wonder what your motives are.

To repeat, some of the reasons why that site is unmitigated bullshit:

-- Actually Gulf War vets did not get a shot with squalene in it in the first place, so that claim is ridiculous

-- Your own liver makes Squalene every single day

-- Millions have already received the vaccine without incident, including me by the way

So the claim that it is dangerous is complete bunk. There are very few, very rare cases of people getting a severe reaction to the vaccine, but there are very, very many people who get seriously ill from the flu.

Your odds of dying from the flu are in the 1:100,000 range while your odds of dying from the vaccine are in the 1:100,000,000 range.

 

[PurpleMonkey]

I have no motive Fuji...this is just for discussion.

I have posted this website in the other thread yes, but that one talked about the poison such as mercury that is contained in the vaccine. The site (which is the same site but a different area within) that I just posted contains a video feed that talks about Conspiracy of the Vaccine, a completely different topic that I was aiming for.


"Your odds of dying from the flu are in the 1:100,000 range " Fuji, where did you get this data?

 

[luckyjackson]

Many vaccines use mercury as a preservative. The amount is negligible. The H1N1 vaccine is not really special in any way. It's safe, and the controversy comes from, is about, and affects, stupid people.

 

[freestuff]

If you're really worried about the potential side-effects, then don't take the shot. It's that simple. I'm going to take the "risks" and get my shot.

 

[winstar]

I actually met Dr. Horowitz a few years ago. He comes off as someone who is trying to sell his books and that's pretty much it.

His work on Ebola and Aids: Nature, Accident, or Intentional, is actually not a bad book, I've read it, and he puts forth a fairly thorough history of the development of these viruses, but It's hard to say whether he is right on the ball, or a con-artist. What I do know from meeting with him is that it seemed very much like a traveling carnival of alternative therapies.

I personally feel H1N1 is a way to test and track what would happen with a biological weapons test in a real world environment, i.e. how would the general public react if a real bioweapon was released? How would government agencies react, and how would health care professionals deal with it. How would pharmaceutical and vaccine makers rise to the challenge and what are the challenges?

My feelings for this, is 1) We are living in a post 911 era, and I think the idea of testing your country's emergency response preparedness is valid, but can only be tested effectively in a real world scenario. (as a side note, I think that power outage a few years ago that affected the both Canada and US on the Eastern side for those few days was not a raccoon getting into the power station and frying some circuits. I think it was another test for emergency preparedness.)

2) Scientists have been studying H1N1 for close to 40 years now, and have had stockpiles of it since the 1970's

3) Our current level of understanding of molecular biology techniques allows us to design viruses, and whether we want to make them more virulent or less virulent depends on changing a few genes, and I believe it can and has been done with H1N1, to make an attenuated version of it, in order to track how the population would react to an unknown viral pandemic.

I remember Anderson Cooper a few weeks before H1N1 broke out into Mexico, was warning travellers not to go to Mexico because of the organized crime killings going on there, but something seemed odd to me about the way he said it, as if he had inside information. Anderson Copper, before he was at CNN, interned at the CIA, so I am sure he still has ties and an affiliation with them.

The H1N1 flu is not a threat. It is about as much of a threat as the normal flu.

 

[PussyMonster]

Your question was answered on another thread with information debunking that website, so since you persist in posting it I have to wonder what your motives are.

To repeat, some of the reasons why that site is unmitigated bullshit:

-- Actually Gulf War vets did not get a shot with squalene in it in the first place, so that claim is ridiculous

-- Your own liver makes Squalene every single day

-- Millions have already received the vaccine without incident, including me by the way

So the claim that it is dangerous is complete bunk. There are very few, very rare cases of people getting a severe reaction to the vaccine, but there are very, very many people who get seriously ill from the flu.

Your odds of dying from the flu are in the 1:100,000 range while your odds of dying from the vaccine are in the 1:100,000,000 range.

I'm also interested, where did you get this last bit of info from? source?

 

[The Oracle]

Many vaccines use mercury as a preservative. The amount is negligible.

No amount of mercury is negligible.

 

[Peter123]

then I hope you don't eat

No amount of mercury is negligible.

any fish...and perhaps any food with corn syrup in it..etc..etc....

 

[basketcase]

...
I remember Anderson Cooper a few weeks before H1N1 broke out into Mexico, was warning travellers not to go to Mexico because of the organized crime killings going on there, but something seemed odd to me about the way he said it, as if he had inside information. Anderson Copper, before he was at CNN, interned at the CIA, so I am sure he still has ties and an affiliation with them.

The H1N1 flu is not a threat. It is about as much of a threat as the normal flu.

Yes, the US initiated a worldwide disease outbreak, started a violent crime wave in Mexico - and then told a reporter all about it.


Sometimes I love this site.

 

[winstar]

Yes, the US initiated a worldwide disease outbreak, started a violent crime wave in Mexico - and then told a reporter all about it.


Sometimes I love this site.

Then you should learn to read.

I said that I believe it was orchestrated to test civil and defense preparedness to an actual biological attack. I didn't say they initiated a disease outbreak. I believe it was attenuated so that civilian casualties would be to a minimum and no greater than the regular flu, that way, if it was ever brought up, they could say it's virulence was that of the regular flu and therefore an ethical test.

Anderson Cooper does have CIA ties: read the second to last paragraph in his early life section

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Cooper

So you think that the CIA would not use that to their advantage? He's seen around the world and trusted in many homes, and was a CIA intern.

By the way this wouldn't be the first time the US government had knowingly spread a disease to study it's effects on a community. Remember Tuskagee anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

Read more history before you sound off with sarcasm.

 

[t.o.leafs.fan]

Conspiracy theorists crack me up.

 

[winstar]

Conspiracy theorists crack me up.

Conspiracies don't enter into it.

In a world, where doctors you are supposed to trust, knowingly withhold treatment for syphilis, to watch how it affects your body, and the only reason they stopped is because someone leaked it,

In a world where the CIA recruited Castro's sister to help overthrow him and possibly assassinate him:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/10/27/castro.sister.cia/index.html

In a world where one group exterminates another in full scale genocide (as in WWII).

Anything is possible. Conspiracy is a word used to discredit those with true independent thought.

 

[Meesh]

Anything is possible. Conspiracy is a word used to discredit those with true independent thought.

Conspiracy is a noun to describe a plot or scheme.

Your assertion that it's use is only to discredit independent thought is merely a red-herring to dissuade others from applying it where it seems applicable.

 

[basketcase]

The conspiracy tag does a good job of discrediting those theories that deserve it. Those based on more than idle speculation stand up well.

Any belief that any government would release a less than lethal virus to test their ability to respond to a biological attack is pretty funny. If a real attack occurred, it wouldn't allow the year or so for the manufacture of a vaccine. If a dangerous disease was was released such as in the movie Outbreak the only thing that would prevent worldwide massive death would be an immediate quarantine. The response we have seen would be nowhere near sufficient enough to constitute a test.

But who am I to prevent people from drinking the kool-aid.

 

[winstar]

The conspiracy tag does a good job of discrediting those theories that deserve it. Those based on more than idle speculation stand up well.

Any belief that any government would release a less than lethal virus to test their ability to respond to a biological attack is pretty funny. If a real attack occurred, it wouldn't allow the year or so for the manufacture of a vaccine. If a dangerous disease was was released such as in the movie Outbreak the only thing that would prevent worldwide massive death would be an immediate quarantine. The response we have seen would be nowhere near sufficient enough to constitute a test.

But who am I to prevent people from drinking the kool-aid.

If a real attack occurred there would be some down time in determining if there was an outbreak/epidemic occurring, figuring out what the virus was, then to design a suitable vaccine, then mass produce it. I think H1N1 provided that test. Speculating as to whether the timeline would be faster/slower is ill informed.

By the way it hasn't even been a year yet. The outbreak occurred in March, only 8 months ago.

And it's not unbelievable to think that a government would knowingly infect a population to study its transmission and effect, as I have mentioned, Tuskagee proved that.

By the way, I said civil and defence testing. This also includes how a population would respond to a biological threat (as H1N1 was). Would there be mass hysteria? etc. What would be the social ramifications?

H1N1 provides the perfect testing situation. I believe it was orchestrated. Whether or not that is the case, the outbreak surely tested our preparedness. What I am saying is that it was a planned controlled experiment.

This strain of the virus lacks a key protein sequence (PB1-F2) that prevents its from being more lethal.

http://science.thomsonreuters.com/pharma/h1n1/

Knowing that the US government have been studying this virus for about 40 years, and they know exactly what protein it is lacking that would make it as virulent as the original swine flu outbreak in 1918, and that our molecular biology techniques have expanded to the point where we can manipulate single gene sequences, taken with the precedent of releasing and studying a pathogen on a population, and our need for biological warfare preparedness, in a post 911 climate, I don't think what I am saying is a stretch or a conspiracy theory at all. In fact, I think it is a perfectly reasonable assumption based in the data we have.

 

[basketcase]

Have fun with your beliefs win.

I will believe that sometimes things just happen without having to be a part of a gross government plot.

 

[winstar]

Have fun with your beliefs win.

I will believe that sometimes things just happen without having to be a part of a gross government plot.

I never said plot, as to imply something that's bad. In fact, I think that observing the way H1N1 is playing out is good to know for the individual and for governments, because it tests assumptions about how we would react if this was a more serious pathogen.

For example, noticing how the virus is spreading faster than we can provide vaccines is probably good to know.

Watching how individuals react to this also informs what would happen if this was more serious. How investing changes to react to the market demand for vaccine. How a person on the bus reacts to stranger coughing or sneezing.

Plot connotates something evil. I am not suggesting that, but I think the populous is being conned, and H1N1 is all hype. Anyone remember West Nile Virus? Who cares about that now?

SARS was serious, but I think H1N1 is a test.

 

[basketcase]

I never said plot, as to imply something that's bad.
...
Plot connotates something evil. I am not suggesting that, but I think the populous is being conned, and H1N1 is all hype. Anyone remember West Nile Virus? Who cares about that now?

SARS was serious, but I think H1N1 is a test.

Do you even read what you post?

...
H1N1 provides the perfect testing situation. I believe it was orchestrated.
...
Knowing that the US government have been studying this virus for about 40 years, and they know exactly what protein it is lacking that would make it as virulent as the original swine flu outbreak in 1918, and that our molecular biology techniques have expanded to the point where we can manipulate single gene sequences, taken with the precedent of releasing and studying a pathogen on a population, and our need for biological warfare preparedness, in a post 911 climate, I don't think what I am saying is a stretch or a conspiracy theory at all. In fact, I think it is a perfectly reasonable assumption based in the data we have.

...
I remember Anderson Cooper a few weeks before H1N1 broke out into Mexico, was warning travellers not to go to Mexico because of the organized crime killings going on there, but something seemed odd to me about the way he said it, as if he had inside information. Anderson Copper, before he was at CNN, interned at the CIA, so I am sure he still has ties and an affiliation with them.
...

You say it isn't bad despite many many deaths world wide. Maybe you just like other people dying to for a test?

You say it wasn't a plot despite all the times when you have said the US government did it intentionally.

You wonder why conspiracy theorists have a bad name?

 

[blackrock13]

I have no motive Fuji...this is just for discussion.
"Your odds of dying from the flu are in the 1:100,000 range " Fuji, where did you get this data?

Fuji is making the assumption that YOU are under 65 years of age and he's right. You can check most sites and this number will be confirmed. The over 65 age group skews this number as that age group is more in the 1:1000 ratio and the end result depends on the number of over 65 in the population.

The comment about the medical profession letting people get syphilis is ludicrous as that disease has been around for a long time and it's effects on the human body are well documented, so they don't need to do that.

How do you sleep at night with all this going around in your head?

Again, this whole discussion was covered at great length not too long ago and your revisiting it is just going over old debates for most of us, but hey!

Is this practice for something else, sure. In my view the authorities could have done a better job in both countries in delivering treatment. Let's hope they learn something. Was a deliberate practice, I doubt in and I'm one who believe Dieppe was practice for D-Day.