Harvey Weinstein the serial sexual harasser.

[fuji]

I don’t think Harvey raped any of the women. I think those that had sex with him all agreed to sex with him in a sober state of mind.

Of course you don't. You think any woman who accuses any man of rape should be denigrated, shamed, and doubted. When a woman here posted about being raped you decided you knew more about the situation than she did and claimed it must have been consensual.

Although you know nothing about what happened in this case you have decided that it must not be rape because he's a man and they are women.

You are really a piece of work.

 

[Occasionally]

The whole debate about "rape", it depends what someone's definition is of it. And compared to the actual law.

Pretty sure most people think of rape as a guy throwing down and woman and ripping her clothes off. The stereotypical dude grabbing someone and raping her in an dark alley.

But for someone like an executive who pressures someone into sex by influencing their career, blackmail, or anything like that, is that really rape? He isn't smothering her or anything. He might not even be in the same room, but all this was done over email from the other side of the country, and giving her the choice... give in for the career.... or decline and get nothing from him.

To me, there is a difference between a creep holding you at knifepoint making demands, and a white collar exec giving people the choice...... assuming none of Harvey's sexual acts were actually of the physical threat type.

 

[mandrill]

273.1 (1) Subject to subsection (2) and subsection 265(3), consent means, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question.
Marginal note:Where no consent obtained

(2) No consent is obtained, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, where

(a) the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant;

(b) the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity;

(c) the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority;

(d) the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity; or

(e) the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity.

Excerpt from the current Canadian Criminal Code. "Abusing a position of power" might make any consent obtained by Weinstein to sex as a result of threatening to wreck an actress's career void and result in him being guilty of raping her.

Sample cases include a drug dealer coercing sex by threatening to cut off addict woman's access to her drug and a guy threatening to expose nude pictures of the vic if she didn't have sex with hi,. In both cases, the dude was jailed for sexual assault.

It's a little less direct when creepy, powerful H'wood producer says "You will never work in this town again unless you get down and suck my dick right now." But there is certainly an analogy. Be a great Law & Order episode.

 

[Occasionally]

273.1 (1) Subject to subsection (2) and subsection 265(3), consent means, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question.
Marginal note:Where no consent obtained

(2) No consent is obtained, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, where

(a) the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant;

(b) the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity;

(c) the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority;

(d) the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity; or

(e) the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity.

Excerpt from the current Canadian Criminal Code. "Abusing a position of power" might make any consent obtained by Weinstein to sex as a result of threatening to wreck an actress's career void and result in him being guilty of raping her.

Hmmm.... good points here. But reading the other bullet pts, what if all the actresses agreed to it, and never showed signs (verbal or physical) declining or disagreeing the offer?

Maybe the authority issue takes precedence. But who knows. It doesn't say it does. That bullet is right in the middle too, so it's not like the written text in any way would claim authoritative power takes the cake (assuming a laundry list is set in chronological order is king).

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Of course you don't. You think any woman who accuses any man of rape should be denigrated, shamed, and doubted. When a woman here posted about being raped you decided you knew more about the situation than she did and claimed it must have been consensual.

Although you know nothing about what happened in this case you have decided that it must not be rape because he's a man and they are women.

You are really a piece of work

^^^^ could a moderator please ban fuji already??!! All he does it piss off half the board.
(I think he does it on purpose too, not sure though, he might be mentally disturbed)

He adds nothing to this forum aside from sow discord :ambivalence:

 

[mandrill]

Hmmm.... good points here. But reading the other bullet pts, what if all the actresses agreed to it, and never showed signs (verbal or physical) declining or disagreeing the offer?

The guy is under an obligation to "take reasonable steps" to ensure the consent is genuine. If Dude says "Hey, wanna work in this town, open wide." as a starting point that could be the debate right there.

Where belief in consent not a defence

273.2 It is not a defence to a charge under section 271, 272 or 273 that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the activity that forms the subject-matter of the charge, where

(a) the accused’s belief arose from the accused’s

(i) self-induced intoxication, or

(ii) recklessness or wilful blindness; or

(b) the accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain that the complainant was consenting.

 

[Occasionally]

Will have to check and post the sections where the guy is under an obligation to "take reasonable steps" to ensure the consent is genuine. If Dude says "Hey, wanna work in this town, open wide." as a starting point that could be the debate right there. But I will check.

This type of Harvey executive pressure should have tons of cases setting precedence. There's got to be some cases involving bosses saying sex or fired, has been documented as cases have gone to court.

Very interesting material though.

 

[canada-man]

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Aaannnnndddd..........another allegation:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...o=social-twitter_dailymailceleb#ixzz4vWTuDbC4

 

[fuji]

^^^^ could a moderator please ban fuji already??!! All he does it piss off half the board.
(I think he does it on purpose too, not sure though, he might be mentally disturbed)

He adds nothing to this forum aside from sow discord :ambivalence:

Says the biggest troll on the board.

Yes we really want terb to be a place where when female members share stories about being raped they are belittled and told that it must have been consensual, and where any member who calls that attack out should be banned.

You really are a piece of work.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Says the biggest troll on the board.

Yes we really want terb to be a place where when female members share stories about being raped they are belittled and told that it must have been consensual, and where any member who calls that attack out should be banned.

You really are a piece of work

Yeah fuji, she was really being belittled

Its nice to know she has you as a spokesman. What would she do without you??

 

[fuji]

Just want to highlight again what Phil thinks I should be banned for calling out.

It's very sad to hear how prolific this predatory behaviour is, but it's really not surprising. I don't really tell people this because it makes me feel stupid and ashamed, but my first experience with actual sex was rape when I was 18. I was at a house party with a bunch of 23 year old guys that were my friend's bf's friends and one of them followed me around all night trying to get me alone. My friend's sister was a big drinker and kept egging me on to drink more and more, and wouldn't let up. It got to the point where I was secretly putting water in my drinks just so people stopped bothering me and thought I was drinking enough with them. This guy was still following me around and everyone else was getting tired and wanting to call it a night. I went to bed and the house had multiple rooms, the room I got had 2 beds with sheets set out and I told him he could sleep over there and I was going to sleep over here. He didn't listen and thought it'd be fun to tackle and wrestle me on the bed and said make him sleep over there etc. I was so drunk and so tired I didn't have much energy to fight back and he just kept on top of me playing around until he decided he wanted to kiss me. I told him to stop please and that I was a virgin and I didn't want to do anything, he kept laughing and saying that's ok and kept going. I said no a few more times and he kept laughing and taking my clothes off and was pinning me down. I was tired and out of it and didn't know what to do so I just laid there and waited until he got off of me. I don't think he really finished as he was so drunk, but he finally stopped and went to bed. The next day he had run around the whole house and told everyone I slept with him. I came downstairs hung over and completely wrecked, my best friend was upset and shocked that I "would do that" and said she didn't believe him at first. Everyone was now disappointed IN ME that I let this happen and I was too ashamed to speak up and say actually he raped me. I actually denied it to myself for years that it was actually rape because I thought I had to fight someone off instead of just saying no for it to count as rape. The worst part was his friends freaking me out later that weekend that since he sleeps with everyone he might have given me an STD.... I went and got checked out of course and didn't have anything, but his other friend liked me but was really concerned I'd give him something if he dated me. Even after I was clean the second guy was still concerned I was dirty some how cuz his friend was with me first. I didn't tell anyone what really happened as for years I just thought it was my fault and didn't want to deal with it. It is incredibly fucked up what happens to women around predatory men, especially when they are young. The person I am now would never let that happen, but when I was very young, inexperienced, scared, naive and trying to be "cool" hanging out with older people I was in a situation where I was pressured and pushed to do things I didn't want to do. This is one reason I don't drink any alcohol and would never with clients, just to always protect myself and make sure that isn't a factor in making it easier for me to be preyed upon. Anyway I hope no one gets upset about sharing my story, I've just really been touched and saddened with all the stories coming out this week.

My heart really goes out to women who are sexually assaulted and raped, almost all of us have one story or another where it happened to us or a close friend. Guys make a lot of jokes about it and assume all women are exaggerating or lying just for fame, or wonder why they would speak out years later instead of right away. I know personally how uncomfortable and shameful it is to think it's your fault something happened to you and that if you talk about it you'll just get blamed or dismissed. We often feel isolated and alone, like we were the only stupid person that let this happen, or worse yet that we were "asking for it" by what we were wearing, by drinking around men, by laughing and flirting with someone etc. That saying no doesn't really mean no if you're dressed a certain way, and drinking and seem like you're having fun. Take someone like Harvey where everyone around him knows and thinks this is normal, and you can imagine how every young naive actress he came across also felt confused, isolated and ashamed of what happened and was very scared to be the only one saying something. Now many of these actresses have credibility and established careers, but back then I wonder would anyone really have listened or believe them?

Alcohol lowers our inhibitions and we openly express what we're all about. For young guys, the default is sex and aggression. For girls, it's submission. These two played their drunken roles as expected. Who knows, the dude was probably so drunk he doesn't remember the incident at all or thought he was dreaming, while she, in her tired drunken state, can recall every last detail.

I honestly don't see relevant parallels with what Harvey did on the casting couch. It doesn't like drugs or alcohol were a factor.

You just had to dismiss Charlotte's experience didn't you.
Being her first time, and traumatic as well, of course she remembers it vividly. We all remember the first one.
The guy knew what he was doing too. He bragged about it the next day to everyone.
There is a parallel to Weinstein and it's not drugs or alcohol. It's entitlement.

"We all remember the first ones" when we're drunk and tired? Not necessarily.

Was he right to pressure her? No. Do we know his mental state and whether he was pissed drunk? No. Let's not speculate. What we do know is that young guys are horny and adding alcohol to the mix can lead to regretful behaviour.

This was some drunk college kid trying to get his dick wet. A far cry from a sober top dog millionaire Hollywood elite.

Having a different opinion with regard to context and perspective is not "dismissing" someone else's experience.

 

[Smallcock]

Of course you don't. You think any woman who accuses any man of rape should be denigrated, shamed, and doubted. When a woman here posted about being raped you decided you knew more about the situation than she did and claimed it must have been consensual.

Although you know nothing about what happened in this case you have decided that it must not be rape because he's a man and they are women.

You are really a piece of work.

LOL calm down. Mischaracterizing what I said will only curry favor with cowards. Nobody takes your virtue signalling seriously.

Right out the Democrat/Hillary playbook. Give it a rest. Discourse has evolved beyond that nonsense.

 

[Smallcock]

Sarah Polley has been working in the industry for a long time. She was 7 when she first appeared in Terry Gilliam's, The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.

She's always followed her own tunes, she dropped out of the entertainment industry for awhile. Now she's back writing the critical CBC/Netflix hit Alias Grace. After Hulu scored a major hit with The Handmaids Tale, Netflix wanted a piece of the Atwood action. It's a match made in heaven, Canada's most talented female impresario (Polley) and Canada's most talented actor (Sarah Gadon).

Polley, Gadon and Rachel McAdams have all chosen to live in Toronto instead of Hollywood. They don't want to be covered in slime.

Just read her Wiki. She's Canadian! And quite talented. Liongate bought her adapted script for a movie for $750k!

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Just want to highlight again what Phil thinks I should be banned for calling out

Nah, you shouldve been banned a long time ago, but thats beside the point

 

[fuji]

It's very sad to hear how prolific this predatory behaviour is, but it's really not surprising. I don't really tell people this because it makes me feel stupid and ashamed, but my first experience with actual sex was rape when I was 18. I was at a house party with a bunch of 23 year old guys that were my friend's bf's friends and one of them followed me around all night trying to get me alone. My friend's sister was a big drinker and kept egging me on to drink more and more, and wouldn't let up. It got to the point where I was secretly putting water in my drinks just so people stopped bothering me and thought I was drinking enough with them. This guy was still following me around and everyone else was getting tired and wanting to call it a night. I went to bed and the house had multiple rooms, the room I got had 2 beds with sheets set out and I told him he could sleep over there and I was going to sleep over here. He didn't listen and thought it'd be fun to tackle and wrestle me on the bed and said make him sleep over there etc. I was so drunk and so tired I didn't have much energy to fight back and he just kept on top of me playing around until he decided he wanted to kiss me. I told him to stop please and that I was a virgin and I didn't want to do anything, he kept laughing and saying that's ok and kept going. I said no a few more times and he kept laughing and taking my clothes off and was pinning me down. I was tired and out of it and didn't know what to do so I just laid there and waited until he got off of me. I don't think he really finished as he was so drunk, but he finally stopped and went to bed. The next day he had run around the whole house and told everyone I slept with him. I came downstairs hung over and completely wrecked, my best friend was upset and shocked that I "would do that" and said she didn't believe him at first. Everyone was now disappointed IN ME that I let this happen and I was too ashamed to speak up and say actually he raped me. I actually denied it to myself for years that it was actually rape because I thought I had to fight someone off instead of just saying no for it to count as rape. The worst part was his friends freaking me out later that weekend that since he sleeps with everyone he might have given me an STD.... I went and got checked out of course and didn't have anything, but his other friend liked me but was really concerned I'd give him something if he dated me. Even after I was clean the second guy was still concerned I was dirty some how cuz his friend was with me first. I didn't tell anyone what really happened as for years I just thought it was my fault and didn't want to deal with it. It is incredibly fucked up what happens to women around predatory men, especially when they are young. The person I am now would never let that happen, but when I was very young, inexperienced, scared, naive and trying to be "cool" hanging out with older people I was in a situation where I was pressured and pushed to do things I didn't want to do. This is one reason I don't drink any alcohol and would never with clients, just to always protect myself and make sure that isn't a factor in making it easier for me to be preyed upon. Anyway I hope no one gets upset about sharing my story, I've just really been touched and saddened with all the stories coming out this week.

My heart really goes out to women who are sexually assaulted and raped, almost all of us have one story or another where it happened to us or a close friend. Guys make a lot of jokes about it and assume all women are exaggerating or lying just for fame, or wonder why they would speak out years later instead of right away. I know personally how uncomfortable and shameful it is to think it's your fault something happened to you and that if you talk about it you'll just get blamed or dismissed. We often feel isolated and alone, like we were the only stupid person that let this happen, or worse yet that we were "asking for it" by what we were wearing, by drinking around men, by laughing and flirting with someone etc. That saying no doesn't really mean no if you're dressed a certain way, and drinking and seem like you're having fun. Take someone like Harvey where everyone around him knows and thinks this is normal, and you can imagine how every young naive actress he came across also felt confused, isolated and ashamed of what happened and was very scared to be the only one saying something. Now many of these actresses have credibility and established careers, but back then I wonder would anyone really have listened or believe them?

Alcohol lowers our inhibitions and we openly express what we're all about. For young guys, the default is sex and aggression. For girls, it's submission. These two played their drunken roles as expected. Who knows, the dude was probably so drunk he doesn't remember the incident at all or thought he was dreaming, while she, in her tired drunken state, can recall every last detail.

I honestly don't see relevant parallels with what Harvey did on the casting couch. It doesn't like drugs or alcohol were a factor.

You just had to dismiss Charlotte's experience didn't you.
Being her first time, and traumatic as well, of course she remembers it vividly. We all remember the first one.
The guy knew what he was doing too. He bragged about it the next day to everyone.
There is a parallel to Weinstein and it's not drugs or alcohol. It's entitlement.

"We all remember the first ones" when we're drunk and tired? Not necessarily.

Was he right to pressure her? No. Do we know his mental state and whether he was pissed drunk? No. Let's not speculate. What we do know is that young guys are horny and adding alcohol to the mix can lead to regretful behaviour.

This was some drunk college kid trying to get his dick wet. A far cry from a sober top dog millionaire Hollywood elite.

Having a different opinion with regard to context and perspective is not "dismissing" someone else's experience.

LOL calm down. Mischaracterizing what I said will only curry favor with cowards. Nobody takes your virtue signalling seriously.

Right out the Democrat/Hillary playbook. Give it a rest. Discourse has evolved beyond that nonsense.

People can read for themselves what you wrote:

Charlotte was just playing her role as a submissive woman, her inhibitions were lowered, insinuating that she is not recalling it properly, etc.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

^^^^^^ holy shit, get this guy some meds please!!!

 

[Smallcock]

People can read for themselves what you wrote:

Charlotte was just playing her role as a submissive woman, her inhibitions were lowered, insinuating that she is not recalling it properly, etc.

Honest discussion is most likely to result in genuine solutions.

You ought to spend your time on being honest rather than on faux outrage, shaming tactics, and virtue signalling.

 

[explorerzip]

I don’t think Harvey raped any of the women. I think those that had sex with him all agreed to sex with him in a sober state of mind.

However, I do think that he coerced them, sexually assaulted them, and threatened their careers if they did not agree to sex.

As a practical matter, the distinction is less relevant here because in both cases, he has no business being in business. Sexual assault is serious crime in itself.

Sounds like your thesis is similar to Mayim Bialik. They should not have gone along with it in the first place. IMO, if someone doesn't really want to do something and still chooses to do it anyway, they are not in a sober state of mind.

 

[Underthegun]

I'm sorry but this is rape, as much as pinning down someone against their will, or fucking them when they're blackout drunk should be (see Sameer Kara et al). The fact that so many (including the courts) see it as a grey area explains why woman are so reluctant to come forward with their stories.