Highway of Heroes.

[a 1 player]

ray,

With all due respect, they are fighting terrorism for one reason, because it is evil and no one regardless of country should have to live in fear of terror. Remember, terrorists usually target innocent civilians, people who have done nothing wrong, not world leaders who make the policies.

For the record, I love America and Americans, I just have an issue with Americas foreign policies.

 

[Plan B]

I'm with Rayfinkel on this one!

The Canadian Military, like everything else is a business, I don't mean a business in that they sell products, but a business in the sense that they have to substantiate the need for further funding. Thus every mouthpiece in the military will tell you what a great job Canada is doing in Afghanistan.

The truth is that soldiers who died are indeed heroes are deserve our utmost respect. But they died for nothing....nada....fuck all! They died because politicians consistently send others to die through political manouevering. Perhaps they could send their owns sons and daughters to war..but of course they're are Western or McGill getting an education...

Tell me..what have we accomplished???

Its all politics and business, and unfortunately, some poor saps paid the price with their lives because some politicians said they "should". We have an exit strategy for 2011. Wow, maybe we'll kill a few more taliban, then what...oh yeah, a new generation of terrorists.

By the way, the media loves these stories, perhaps we'll see some more pictures of the soldiers widowed wives, and children who won't have a father.

"Isn't war great----It must be if the Politicians say it is, right??

 

[dnl412]

I know you are probably impossible to reason with, but there have been terrorist attacks in Britain, Italy, Spain....

All linked to Al Qaeda, supported by the Taliban. It really is just a matter of time before one happens in Canada.

As BigBossFan says, we are member of NATO, and obliged to honour our commitment to that organization. Unfortunately, we've been doing the "heavy lifting" so far, and have suffered the most. (casualties and deaths per "boots on the ground".)

The reasoning "it's not our war" was also used by the US until Pearl Harbour. If the US had come in sooner to WW2, many lives would have been saved.

Again...the point of this thread was not to debate politics, but to share a personal experience with those of the same mind.

In a roundabout way, these men are dying, defending your right to be a complete ass. So, they are not dying for nothing, and deserve your respect.

Those men are dying because they want a better future for themselves. I too used to be a minimum wage killer, always ready to snuff anyone at the whim of some corrupt politician. Eventually, it turned out that my university degree earned me enough to be content doing something other than killing. My backup plan was to use that "minimum wage killer" experience to be a private soldier, a vocation which is somewhat fun (almost all rules are grey) and pays a whole lot better.

Please do not try to make them into selfless heroes. Few go in the army because they want that as a career, most go because it is their only VIABLE career. They do die for greed, every kill gotten in the service ups the earning potential in private service (corporate mercenary)... and not getting killed kept that earning potential from flatlining... it is not politically correct but no less true ...

 

[CapitalGuy]

Please do not try to make them into selfless heroes. Few go in the army because they want that as a career, most go because it is their only VIABLE career. They do die for greed, every kill gotten in the service ups the earning potential in private service (corporate mercenary)... and not getting killed kept that earning potential from flatlining... it is not politically correct but no less true ...

What are you smoking? That "only viable career" stuff and "lowest 25% of the class" is from the US Army in the 60's. Those levels of class disparity don't exist in Canada, and entrance standards for the CF are high. And, anyone who shows up at a recruiting center with a desire to kill, is screened out.

And greed? You're saying people join the Army out of greed? Makes no sense. To follow that logic, anyone who goes to work for GM or Bell Canada or the TTC or Edward Jones, does it out of greed. Everyone needs a job.

I am sorry you (apparently) had a bitter experience with some Army somewhere, but you're way off base in your assumptions.

 

[spitze]

I'm with Plan B on this one....I feel sorry for the family of the soldiers honeslty leaving kids behind must hurt.

Now...the reality....why Canadians are there Why??? because Harper wanted to Kiss Bush arse?? What Canada gets from this ? We are stuck in there for a war created/based on LIES and full of greed.

Do you really feel safer than before Canadian troops were in there ?

If politicians think is right to send Soldiers to Afghanistan....Are they sending their own kids ????

 

[dnl412]

Actually, I enjoyed my time in the military. However, as you yourself point out everyone needs a job, thus greed is the motivator. Some choose to kill for a living (yeah that is what soldiers are when you unravel the mystique around their jobs), others choose to build cars. If you live by the sword, chances are you will die by it. Anyway, due to discriminatory recruiting practices, I was always doing a job 5 or so pay levels above mine, so do not give me any of that "stereotype from the 60's bs".

The military has many excellent people who are underemployed for a variety of reasons, it also has a lot of people who find that it is the only place that gives them the opportunity to develop through constant training.

Imagine the purpose of this board if greed did not make so many young ladies available to just about anyone with enough money. ;-) They could all work at McDonalds instead... never heard of anyone catching STDs from a cash register. Every job has its drawbacks.

 

[Bigbossfan]

Now...the reality....why Canadians are there Why??? because Harper wanted to Kiss Bush arse?? What Canada gets from this ? We are stuck in there for a war created/based on LIES and full of greed.

For spitze and anyone else who is of the opinion that we are the American's puppets, if Harper was so intent on kissing Bush's arse, how come our troops are not in Iraq? The fact that Canada didn't step up to the plate and support the invasion of Iraq was a huge political gamble and statement to the rest of the world that Canada is not the American's puppets. Educate yourself Einstein. Do some reading.

It's too bad though that this thread has been hijacked into a political debate. The Highway of Heroes is an awesome sight to behold and a huge gesture of appreciation for our fallen troops. God bless them all.

 

[The Cunning Linguist]

Guys...if you want to debate the optics, and politics, create your own thread in the political forum.

It's really out of place here.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Now...the reality....why Canadians are there Why??? because Harper wanted to Kiss Bush arse?? What Canada gets from this ? We are stuck in there for a war created/based on LIES and full of greed.

Do you really feel safer than before Canadian troops were in there ?

If politicians think is right to send Soldiers to Afghanistan....Are they sending their own kids ????

Check your facts spitze... it was NOT Harper that sent our troops to Afghanistan...

The first deployment of troops to Afghanistan was announced by Prime Minister Jean Chretien in October 2001 as part of the Canadian commitment to an international force to "conduct a campaign against terrorism." It was supported by the majority of the house.

The next deployment of troops to Afghanistan AKA "Operation Athena," occured in August 2003, which was also done under the previous Liberal Governments. It was ALSO supported by the majority of the house.

Only the current deployment of troops to Afghanistan, Operations Mountain Thrust and Falcon Summitt, were done under the Harper government and again, supported by the majority of the house.

It has NOTHING to do with Harper kissing Bush's or anyone else's arse, but everything to do with our commitment to a small military agreement, (you may have heard of it...) called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, (AKA N.A.T.O.), since Louis Stephen St-Laurent (a Liberal in case you didn't know...) signed the agreement at the time of its inception on April 4th 1949.

Arm chair critics REALLY PISS ME OFF!!!!!

Oh, and BTW... before you jump down my throat... my brother in law is in the military and he an I had a very intense conversation about how PISSED OFF he is about all this anti-war BS that's going around. Our boys (and girls) have a job to do in THEIR chosen profession so lets just let them do it! They all know the risks involved and face them head on and with pride and conviction.

NO ONE LIKES WAR, but it is (unfortunately) a necessary evil we have to live with.

Needless to say, I PROUDLY support our troops!

 

[james t kirk]

Guys...if you want to debate the optics, and politics, create your own thread in the political forum.

It's really out of place here.

Agreed.

This thread is not about the issue of the war in Afghanistan, it's about respect towards those who have given their lives in service for their country.

 

[snowleopard]

Check you facts spitze... it was NOT Harper that sent our troops to Afghanistan... etc

Needless to say, I PROUDLY support our troops!

I couldn't have said it any better C-G. Again, regardless of whether or not one supports this war, or any war, if one can't find it in one's heart to show some empathy and support for these individuals and their families, in their time of grief and need, then what kind of 'peace-loving' human are you? You don't end war by hating war, or Americans, or Afghanistan, or anyone one else for that matter ... ultimately, war will only end when we all are enlightened enough to show compassion and respect for our fellow human beings, regardless of our differences, and recognize that we all share the same planet. It is not about hate, it's about compassion.

 

[Notion]

​

God and the soldier

​

alike we adore,

​

In times of danger

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not before,

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The danger past

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and all conflict righted,

​

God is forgotten

​

the soldier slighted.

 

[capncrunch]

One can still honour those who have fallen without agreeing to the politics being it.

The military is not a debating society. They take their orders and carry them out to the best of their ability. It is that sacrifice which is being honoured.

The political battles belong outside the realm of honouring the soldiers.

 

[The Cunning Linguist]

One can still honour those who have fallen without agreeing to the politics being it.

The military is not a debating society. They take their orders and carry them out to the best of their ability. It is that sacrifice which is being honoured.

The political battles belong outside the realm of honouring the soldiers.

EXACTLY!!!

Well Said!!

 

[chiller_boy]

For spitze and anyone else who is of the opinion that we are the American's puppets, if Harper was so intent on kissing Bush's arse, how come our troops are not in Iraq? The fact that Canada didn't step up to the plate and support the invasion of Iraq was a huge political gamble and statement to the rest of the world that Canada is not the American's puppets. Educate yourself Einstein. Do some reading.

It's too bad though that this thread has been hijacked into a political debate. The Highway of Heroes is an awesome sight to behold and a huge gesture of appreciation for our fallen troops. God bless them all.

We would have been in Iraq if Harper and the Conservatives were in power. Harper wrote an OP ed piece for the Times saying exactly that. We are not in iraq because of the liberals and Chretian. Open and shut.

But, why are we in Afghanistan?? Aparently, to assuage the Americans because we spat in their face over Iraq. We wanted to show that we weren't all bad(again, the liberals). Now think of that everytime a Canadian gets blown up while riding in a armored vehicle on "patrol". These guys are dying for petty and disgusting political reasons to ameliorate relations with the US. Not because of Taliban treatment of women or the drug trade or the wherabouts of OSL. Before 9/11 when the Taliban were in (almost)complete control we did nothing. Nada. Despite the treatment of women and the bok burning, etc.. Just like we are doing nothing in central africa or the Sudan today.

Life is a precious gift. I dont care what the motives of the individual Canadian soldiers are. I just know that they are pissing away this most precious gift by fighting a "war" created by old men for north american political reasons. The Germnans and the French(before Sarkozy, anyway) had more sense as do the Japanese. They saw this "war' for what it was. Not worth the life of a young man or woman.

Afghans need to work out their own problems. Karzai is trying to do that by openning channels to the Taliban.


I don't think anybody doubts the bravery of our troops.Just the stupidity of our leaders. Bring them home and let them live their lives.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Hey Chillerboy

Do yourself a favour from here on in... and read PAST THE FARKING headlines... educate yourself and you won't look like such a farking idiot every time you open your mouth or type a post!

 

[Plan B]

We would have been in Iraq if Harper and the Conservatives were in power. Harper wrote an OP ed piece for the Times saying exactly that. We are not in iraq because of the liberals and Chretian. Open and shut.

But, why are we in Afghanistan?? Aparently, to assuage the Americans because we spat in their face over Iraq. We wanted to show that we weren't all bad(again, the liberals). Now think of that everytime a Canadian gets blown up while riding in a armored vehicle on "patrol". These guys are dying for petty and disgusting political reasons to ameliorate relations with the US. Not because of Taliban treatment of women or the drug trade or the wherabouts of OSL. Before 9/11 when the Taliban were in (almost)complete control we did nothing. Nada. Despite the treatment of women and the bok burning, etc.. Just like we are doing nothing in central africa or the Sudan today.

Life is a precious gift. I dont care what the motives of the individual Canadian soldiers are. I just know that they are pissing away this most precious gift by fighting a "war" created by old men for north american political reasons. The Germnans and the French(before Sarkozy, anyway) had more sense as do the Japanese. They saw this "war' for what it was. Not worth the life of a young man or woman.

Afghans need to work out their own problems. Karzai is trying to do that by openning channels to the Taliban.


I don't think anybody doubts the bravery of our troops.Just the stupidity of our leaders. Bring them home and let them live their lives.

This is a great post. Thank you. Unfortunately, some of the most vocal folks here are pro war and believe everything the media tells them. Thanks Chiller Boy!

 

[CapitalGuy]

We would have been in Iraq if Harper and the Conservatives were in power. Harper wrote an OP ed piece for the Times saying exactly that. We are not in iraq because of the liberals and Chretian. Open and shut.

We would be in Iraq if Michael Ignatieff had been PM too. He has written at length (at much greater length than Harper ever wrote) about his support for the war in Iraq. Then in typical Liberal fashion, he wrote at length about how wrong he was, when he saw that his support for Iraq could hurt his standing in the polls.

So, the current leader of the Liberal Party would have send Canadian soldiers to Iraq. Open and shut.

 

[roadhog]

We should also have routes for cops and firemen and paramedics and search and rescuers.

Agreed. I've attended a few police funerals over the years and a short procession would be nice, especially if they died while on duty.