Holmes on Homes - Opinions on the show

[rick dickulous]

I'm an honest contractor and I've learned the hard way to be much more wary of scumbag homeowners. They range from revisionist historians to outright psychopaths. In fact I've done research on psychopaths and found out a bunch of tricks for spotting them. I can't post them here because of the danger of training better psychopaths.

But my advice to any contractor is learn to listen to your gut and walk away from any job that feels fishy. If they say they don't like your price, chances are there are other aspects of your offering that are turning them off. Like maybe you seem too sharp for them to con.

If they seem really eager to do the job right now, then you know you have bid way too low and they want to rip you off quickly before you regain your senses. Also do some research on the internet and learn how to spot the psychos.

If you think all contractors are bad and all homeowners are good then you should call mommy and tell her it's past your bedtime.

 

[the contractor]

I am also a contractor and have the whole list home owner horror shows, along with the leans, lawsuits and other general unpleaseantness. One thing to keep in mind is that as a contractor, I cannot go more than 10% over my written quote without permission from the home owner. Getting this in writing has become a standard practice.

On permits it is almost impossible to do anything now without a permit. In therory I have to call in ESA when I install a bathroom fan or valance lights in a kitchen.

The number of customers I have that ask for no permits seriously exceeds the number that ask for the permits.

 

[pool]

I just watched the first 4 seasons over again on DVD. 'enuff said

He does state often that there are good guys and there are bad guys.

It's just another case where people may get a false sense of reality when their perception is derived from a narrow source.

There are evil contractors, just as there are evil home owners, who ruin it for the good guys. Many are ethical and reasonable folk.

Having said that, I wish Mike would finish off my kitchen which is still incomplete after a year. In other words, do it holmey style - gut it, do it right- throw in pot lights, back splash 'n' all.

 

[james t kirk]

Actually it is said in the episode that they were told by the contractor that did the conversion from oil to gas that it was ok to leave the tank in the ground. The just makes the people stupid but had nothing to do with the current contractor.

That's the part I have a hard time with and frankly, don't believe the homeowner. I'll bet that they were told to remove it and chose not to. Most contractors are pretty good at identifying where work should be done.

Anyway, it's all acedemic now.

My original point of that show in particular was they they went way beyond the original scope of work.

 

[tboy]

...
Having said that, I wish Mike would finish off my kitchen which is still incomplete after a year. In other words, do it holmey style - gut it, do it right- throw in pot lights, back splash 'n' all.

LOL complete with granite tops and backsplash, gen air appliances, and solid maple floors, all at NO cost to you right?

Damn, I wish I could have my own TV show....to be able to do everything for free and STILL get paid well? Damn.....

 

[james t kirk]

tboy, rick diculous and the contractor......

I hear your pain.

I am not a contractor, but work with contractors quite often in a part time capacity outside but related to my normal line of work. I have a couple of very good friends who ARE contractors and I have seen first hand examples of psycho homeowners myself.

Through one friend of mine, I met a former VJ at Muchmusic who shall remain nameless who (together with their spouse) were freaking idiots to the extreme. The design was completely fucked up (the owners hired the architect) and they (the owners) were trying to blame my friends and get them to pay for at least part of the corrective measures. My friend builds them, he doesn't design them.

That's one thing that Holmes DOES do on his show is talk about what the quotes to do the work were, verses what they SHOULD be. There was one lady who had a quote to do a basement which was stupid low and she went with it. IMHO, she deserved what she got.

 

[james t kirk]

Listening to the Contractor woes on here, my advice would be to document the hell out everything.

You need to have a documented scope of work at the outset.

If there is anything outside that scope of work, you need to give your client a Notice in writing of the change of scope.

Then you need to give them a quotation, provided by an Extra Work Order which they should sign in order to agree to the price and change the bottom line of your original contract.

 

[new2game]

a lot of the problems occur

..because some contractors are not educated on the actual cost of doing work, and maintaining the overhead costs of their business. I deal with the autobody trade...much the same thing. There is always tradespeople out there, offereing their services for outrageously low amounts because thye only understand dollar numbers...taking in a $10,000 job sounds good, right???.. But if your net cost to do the job is that...or more...you're screwed..and in essense, you've screwed everyone in your industry that's trying to make a profitable living. Some of these tradespeople screw up purposely, so they can try to bill more once they have the job. Others are really so lost in terms of operating costs, that they have no clue what they are doing. And clients have this idea that "profit" is some filthy slimey word. No profit, no businesses...then try to do the work yourself. Not many of us can do it to the quality of a skilled tradesperson.

As a tradesperson, you need to be educated in cost management,and tell others in your trade that getting fair pay for work done is the only way to lift the status of your industry. The days of trying to cuthroat your competition with low pricing and poor quality must end.

If you're a client, it's imperative that you educate yourself on what is a reasonable cost to do the work, what materials will cost, and to value the work the tradesperson is doing.If you are not willing to pay for a good quailty job, don't have it done. And that old adage, "if it seems too good to be true , it probably is"..is as sound now as ever..


N2G

 

[Mao Tse Tongue]

I am AMAZED that anyone watches more than one episode of this show. It is absolutely like a broken record. If I were the exec. on this show, I'd be worried about the rapid decline in viewership as the concept of Mike as "the saviour" gets tired--really fast.

I also agree that the work's lack of aesthetic will sink the ratings sooner than later as "the savior" thing wears off.

But the show is syndicated everywhere so he's done well.

I had a friend use Mike on a quote, and he was 4x the price of the highest bid.

 

[svtcobra]

Mike Holmes in my humble opinion he is an honesty and very straight forward person. I would pay the extra money no matter what he charges, because in the end I know his crew would be doing a A++ job in my home and not cutting corners. I wouldn't have to worry about it later down the road.

My father and I met Mike Holmes in person and some of his crew one evening in a town, we just happened to be at a place he likes to get his coffee from. He is a totally geuine person in my book. He actually took the time and sat down with us and have a couple of cups of coffee and spoke about different things in life and the town.
Yeah he is making some money now from his show and is appearing on some Talk shows (IE Ellen). If you see his home, it is not really a huge home as some people may think. He lives in the country with his wife and children. Now I don't know if his son is still working for him or back in University now.

I've seen his show from the start, he does go out of the way to help people. I believe some of the cost if picked up by the show and the rest it is up to the homeowner to pay. Allot of the Professional people that he has on his show do the work for free or in exchange have their company name/logo appear on T.V.

In the end he is one contractor that is willing to tell you out straight what is wrong and the right way to fix it and he will now bullshit you.

" You get what you pay for" You cheap out you will have headaches later down the road.


Svt

 

[pool]

LOL complete with granite tops and backsplash, gen air appliances, and solid maple floors, all at NO cost to you right?

You got it, although I'm thinking heated slate or marble floors.

It is absolutely like a broken record. The concept of Mike as "the saviour" gets tired--really fast.

There in, lies the humor. The Dog of contractors.

To each their own though. I could never sit through an episode of The Apprentice - only watched one episode right through, because I'd heard about the resourceful Asian chick ... Holmesy could reconstruct that Donald twirp's ass ... on the first take : )

 

[FatOne]

...
If you think all contractors are bad and all homeowners are good then you should call mommy and tell her it's past your bedtime.

What of the argument I read somewhere, that because homeowners will jump at the lowest bid regardless of how unrealistic, that honest contractors will get squeezed out. Someone earlier in the thread basically said as much with regard to Mike. How can you get contacts if your competition is constantly low balling and making up the difference via shoddy work and materials.

As I understand it, 10 year shingles are common practice when building new homes. Sure in the long run, it would be cheaper to put in something decent once, instead of having to hire a crew in 10 years, but it lowers the price, and it looks good enough. Most homes really don't have enough insulation considering it is an after tax, inflation proof and risk free return, it is better then most investment you can make, even beyond the R 2000 standard, but few homeowners will pay for it because of sticker shock.

Considering these are the type of short sighted people one deals with, how can anyone but a rip off artist survive.

 

[wawa]

I am in the construction and renovation business and we are very rarely the lowest bidder. I even tell the customer right up front that if you are looking for the best price we won't be doing business! This type of clientel is not what good contractors are interested in. There are plenty of customers who are wise to the lowball idiots. They just don't want the aggravation. There will always be the "yellow page types" who call 10 contractors and just want the lowest cost. We just don't cater to these types. I always ask if the customer is familiar with Mike Holmes and if they are I have a much greater chance of closing the deal. I've been doing this for a long time and a good honest job with no cost overruns will bring many profitable referrals. This is how to build your contracting business. Mike Holmes has made business easier for the honest profitable contractors.

 

[rick dickulous]

A lot of the Professional people that he has on his show do the work for free or in exchange have their company name/logo appear on T.V.

My buddy was getting quotes for eavestrough on his new second floor and just happened to call up a guy who's on the Holmes show. This eavestrougher said he was busy for the next 6 to 8 months and wanted 10 THOUSAND dollars to put up a couple of lines of eavestrough! This was about 8 times the price of the people he eventually went with.

My friend and I felt this trougher was gouging because he could get away with it.

 

[pussylicker]

... but the producers try to do it as inexpensively as possible.

If that's the case, I'd say Holmes IS cutting corners. He does extra things (like previously mentioned) that are above and beyond what might have originally been quoted. Yes some contractors do shoddy work, but what I've seen, is Mike going overboard on how he fixes everything, not just what was substandard.

If I was the homeowner, I wouldn't pay for stuff that doesn't need doing. On the otherhand, I've had people not want to spend extra $ on replacing moldy drywall in the tub area with "Wonderboard" or waterproof drywall, which is only leaving them with similar conditions to what was there before I did the re-tile job. This is like girls getting hosed when taking their cars to Canadian Tire. Get done what you want done, and don't get talked into upgrades or extra work not needed. People need a 2nd or 3rd quote before proceeding with the work, and even then you can't guarantee you're comparing apples to oranges.

If the work is substandard, you shouldn't be paying the final payment(s). Mike's show should be about repairing substandard work, not doing an extreme makeover.

 

[pussylicker]

Sasha, I typically would agree with you but where there is a difference (being in the industry myself and quoting/doing countless projects) lies is the fact that contractors don't give you a price you want to hear, they give you the price to do the job right, then bitch and moan about the price so much that you do come back with a cheaper price, with less work done, highlight this fact to them, assure them what you DO in fact do will be done right, but then they bitch and moan and hold back funds because you didn't do everything they wanted.

Doesn't matter that they agreed to less work to suit their budget, doesn't matter that they asked you to cut corners, doesn't matter that they agreed to do part of the work (which rarely do they do), at the end of the day they want what they want at the higher price, for the final agreed price.

I can't tell you the number of times I've had someone say to me: how much to do this? $1800.00 ok, what can you do for $400.00? This, ok, do that then....and when you're done? HEY that's not what I wanted...but hey, that's what you agreed to???

Here's a good idea when you're done, standing hat in hand, waiting for the remainder of your money (while they are going over evey inch of the project even areas you weren't involved with):
Hey, you didn't fix this?
I told you at the beginning that it wasn't included in the price, see? there's your initials....
Well, it looks dumb now, why didn't you fix it?
Grrrrr cause you didn't want it fixed at the price we agreed on
You should have fixed it, how much now to fix it?
Well, to undo everything I did add 20% to the first estimate.

What? you're crazy.....

And I end up eating the final payment.....

And another good one is when they agree to keep costs down by supplying the material. You go over the job, tell them exactly what you need, and on what day so they can make sure they have it. They NEVER do....then they get the wrong stuff....and never by enough, and then ask YOU to go get it....then complain because my time to go purchase it is on the final invoice as well as the cost of the added material.

A great one is when you're cutting baseboard, the offcuts are going into the garbage bag...they say: Hey can't you use that 2" piece somewhere? Ummm no....why don't you glue all the 3" pieces together? You can use that next to the closet...You've GOT to be fucking kidding me?

Spoken by a man that knows what he's talking about

 

[antlerman]

As we know..MH is a spokes person / promoter of The Home Depot(HD)....well I had friends who had a bathroom done by HD.....guess what......????

It nearly turned into one of those episodes from his show........yup.......after threats of lawsuits and going to the paper....HD sent in a whole new contractor to strip out and redo the job completely........

total duration of project from start to finish...with no working full bathroom in the house...9 weeks...........2 weeks for first contractor...never finished...then 4 weeks in negotioations......then 3 weeks for the right job to get done....

And belive me...I saw the first work..it needed to be redone....rocking tiolette.....a new vanity which the doors could not close....not one tile was even or level with the next....taps moving in walls and not in line..........

So...even going with what you think is a "good contractor" supported by a store does not always work!

 

[Keebler Elf]

Anybody here watch the Real Renos shows for the additions etc done on them?

I think it was cancelled. If you watch enough of his episodes, you probably wouldn't want him working on your house. He's always late and there's always fuckups. Yeah, he's a schmoozer, but I don't want a schmoozer renovating my house; I want someone who knows WTF they're doing.

 

[james t kirk]

I think it was cancelled. If you watch enough of his episodes, you probably wouldn't want him working on your house. He's always late and there's always fuckups. Yeah, he's a schmoozer, but I don't want a schmoozer renovating my house; I want someone who knows WTF they're doing.

That's reality - always late.

However, people just didn't like Jim Carick because he was always bitching about his clients. (Can't make decisions, complaining, etc. etc.) It goes with the territory as far as I am concerned.

Holmes on the other hand rides in and saves the day. What's not to love.

Mike Holmes personality wise comes across with a) a sense of humour, and b) comes across as a decent guy. They always seem to be having a party at the end of the episode and he strikes me as that kind of guy. Mike also gets his hands dirty. Jim Carick never did. Just rode around on his Harley complaining about his clients.

 

[Stymie]

the show is not reality

not everything needs to be done over code

benefits must be balanced with cost
otherwise we would all be living in houses with steel beams and steel roofing
and granite floors and granite counters and granite bathrooms
with kohler gold taps

reality is renovating mostly to code
and for diy you can build to over code as your labour is yours

all is well when built well