The Palis strike at whatever targets that are available to them the Israelis will not allow civilian deaths to constrain their military objectives, the Palis are willing to kill civilains to achieve their political objectives. You are really grasping at slivers to establish a disparity in their morality. It's quite pathetic really.
How many think gryfin should be kicked off Terb?
- Thread starter Dandy_Dapper_Boy
- Start date
The Palis strike at whatever targets that are available to them the Israelis will not allow civilian deaths to constrain their military objectives, the Palis are willing to kill civilains to achieve their political objectives. You are really grasping at slivers to establish a disparity in their morality. It's quite pathetic really.
Of course you overstated it, frankly you EXAGGERATED it by a country mile. I have not heard of more then 2 deaths and one was a heart attack....I have not heard of any kids being injured. These rockets are frankly a bit of a joke. They are not militarilty effective. More Palis have died building them then Israelis.....
For nottyboi:
Sept 29, 2004 - Yuval Abebeh, 4, and Dorit Benisian, 2, were killed by a Qassam rocket (one of three) fired from Gaza into Sderot, September 29, 2004
Mar 28, 2006 - Nachal Oz, two Israeli-Arabs (Salam Ziadin and Khalid, 16, a Bedouin father and son) are killed when a dormant Qassam rocket they find in the Nahal Oz area explodes
In total around 30 civilians have been killed by Qassam rockets, of which three (name and dates provided) were children. This is not counting the many more cases of children (among many other civilians) being injured and maimed by Qassam rockets.
Several times the Qassams have hit kindergartens and schools and in another case a 7 month old baby was badly injured.
Hamas *intends* to inflict civilian casualties.
Sept 29, 2004 - Yuval Abebeh, 4, and Dorit Benisian, 2, were killed by a Qassam rocket (one of three) fired from Gaza into Sderot, September 29, 2004
Mar 28, 2006 - Nachal Oz, two Israeli-Arabs (Salam Ziadin and Khalid, 16, a Bedouin father and son) are killed when a dormant Qassam rocket they find in the Nahal Oz area explodes
In total around 30 civilians have been killed by Qassam rockets, of which three (name and dates provided) were children. This is not counting the many more cases of children (among many other civilians) being injured and maimed by Qassam rockets.
Several times the Qassams have hit kindergartens and schools and in another case a 7 month old baby was badly injured.
Hamas *intends* to inflict civilian casualties.
The Israelis intentions are absolutely clear and unequivocal. To end the rocket attacks and to create conditions in which their population can live in peace and with security.
tell me what you you would do if week and after week month after month and year after year over 1,000 rockets were launched at your civilian population. Perhaps they should just grin and bear it.
The US was attacked by terrorists on 9/11 and tragically over 3,500 people were murdered. They then went in and took over 2 countries.
I would say that the Israeli response has been fairly restrained.
Talk about rubbush.
Could also add a dozen or so civilians killed in mortar attacks in the same period.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism...f+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc.htm
Do you want a google search about injuries too? Here's a few news stories
Qassam lands near Sderot school; child seriously injured
(Video) Ten-year-old boy sustains serious injuries to his arm during rocket attack on western Negev town; total of five Qassams fired toward Israeli territory from Gaza since morning hours
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3511004,00.html
Israeli child seriously wounded in rocket attack
SDEROT, Israel
Sat Feb 9, 2008 1:45pm EST
SDEROT, Israel (Reuters) - Two Israelis, one an eight-year-old boy, were seriously wounded by Palestinian rockets fired into southern Israel on Saturday, medical workers and police said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL0915296520080209
JERUSALEM — At least 14 people were injured, including 2 children, when a rocket fired from Gaza exploded in a shopping mall in southern Israel Wednesday, just as the Israeli prime minister was warning against such attacks.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355635,00.html
Thursday saw 30 rockets fired toward Israel's southern region. In the most severe attack a Grad rocket that exploded in Beersheba injured six people, including a woman and a child who sustained serious wounds
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657271,00.html
You could also add Sabbah Abu Khusa, 12, and Hanein `Ali Abu Khusa, 5, in Beit Lahiya, two Palestinian girls killed when a Gaza rocket fell short and landed in Gaza.
http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2009/08/06/rockets-gaza
As for your seeming approval of terror attacks,
http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2009/08/06/rockets-gaza
To put it simply, everyone (even some inside Hamas http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6143UB20100205) know that the rockets are weapons of terror against a civilian population and are meant to kill.
Nonsense that is not their intention, they are not that stupid. Their goal is expansion and they can only achieve that while the Palis are kept in disarray. This is the only conclusion a sensible person can draw from their actions and their willingness to completely ignore UN directives and agreements. Perhaps it may be better for the world if Israel did succeed in completely occupying ALL the Pali territory. I myself do not exclude that possibility (for those that think I am anti-Israel) in fact, it may even be better for the Palestinians!!! I just wish frankly they would be more upfront about it. Offer the Palestians semi-autonomous statehood under and Israeli federation, with a UN appointed ombudsmans office to arbitrate disputes and oversee distribution of aid. After 20 years this can revert to full Israeli citizenship as a state under the Federation of Israel with the state capital of Jerusalem... therefore Jerusalem will be the Pali state capital and it can STILL be the Israeli national capital.. see I solved it lol
yeah yeah yeah.. whatever. Who knows if any of these reports are even true. Both sides are pathalogical liars so posting a weblink means nothing to me. Frankly the Israelis say "how horrible these people are that kill our children" then they go and kill Pali children...then the Palis say "how horrible we will kill more of their children" it is all a fucking sick joke by two peoples that are completely morally bankrupt IMHO. They are both sick fucks that the world would be a better place if they ceased to exist and we could turn the land into some sort of world heritage parkland.....
So why then are Palis civilians being killed at a rate of over 2:1 by the IDF? Would you say the Palis are more incompetent at killing Israelis or the IDF are incompetent at NOT killing Palis? You are just grasping at slivers and trying to introduce facts in a conflict where facts do not exist in the public domain. Names and quotes have no meaning in a war being fought by two fundamentally
dishonest players and where no goodwill exists.
There are three somewhat related reasons why this is true:
#1 - Hamas intentionally places its fighters amongst Palestinian civilians, who get caught in the cross fire
#2 - IDF has been successful in containing the conflict to Palestinian areas, so that's where the battles are fought
#3 - Israel's security measures have been successful in limiting the extent to which Hamas can strike Israelis
Plainly if IDF's goal were to kill as many Palestinians as possible there would be a lot more Palestinian casualties than there are.
First I would not say "Palis" because I think Hamas is not representative of the average Palestinian. Second, Hamas is at a severe technological disadvantage but I would not say that means they are incompetent.
Relatively speaking IDF has done a not bad job of avoiding civilian casualties, but in my view that isn't acceptable--there is plainly more that they could do, and don't.
Even if I did agree that Hamas migles with the civilan population, the fact is Israel still choses to fire and therefore knowingly causes civilan casualties. Yes of couse Irsael has nukes so they could kill many people, but you see, Israel cannot survive without the West, and if they slaugtered the Palis they would lose all support from western nations. Probably even from Jews outside Israel (I would hope anyway). Israel has successfully limited Hamas strikes, but we all know this is temporary. We all know a determined foe with a lot of time on their hands and a willingness to die for their cause WILL find a way to strike. It is sadly inevitable.
Yes, I agree. That would be a war crime for IDF ONLY IF it turned out that IDF was trying to maximize the number of civilians killed, or attacking military targets as an excuse to kill civilians. So long as IDF is attacking legitimate military targets, and in doing so, trying to keep civilian casualties to a minimum, that's acceptable for IDF. It is of course reprehensible for Hamas to intentionally mingle in among civilians, knowing that will result in them getting killed in the crossfire.
I suspect there are a few cases where IDF did not do enough to minimize the civilian casualties, and those cases should be investigated.
Overall though they do keep them to a minimum, and that is apparent from the fact that they use some extremely deadly weapons powerful enough to kill thousands, yet generally only a few people get caught in the cross fire. That tells me, and any reasonable person who thinks about it, that they are being careful in their targetting and trying to limit the damage.
In any case all of this is quite different from Hamas, which makes not even a pretense of striking military targets, and celebrates when it succeeds in killing innocent children.
And what would have the Israelis do. Should they just permit Hamas to fire rockets at their civilian population and grit their teeth hoping that the continue to be inefficient. Iran continues to ship more sophisticated rockets to Hamas and it is only a matter of time until Hamas get better at targeting larger population centers and killing more civilians.
Please tell me what you would have them do.
No that is not the point. If the IDF is willing to shoot knowing civilians are in harms way, it is still a crime, UNLESS the people doing the shooting are in a life and death struggle. If they can choose to not shoot without facing imminent danger then they should not do so.
I am not sure this is true. Iran has shiped missles to hezbollah, I believe, but I believe the palestinian
weapons are homemade and as a result, largely inaccurate.
