Idle forever

username999

Member
Sep 20, 2010
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A group of millionaire Indian Chiefs are threatening to bring the Canadian economy to a halt, because they want more money. They call their movement "Idle no more"...but perhaps it should be called what it really is, "Idle forever".

These Chiefs and their misguided small "l" liberal supporters have hoodwinked the mainstream media, and no politician has the guts to speak out.

Yes, the poverty, living conditions, substance abuse, family abuse, suicide rate and illegal smuggling on many reserves are all appalling.

But is it a funding issue or an incompetence, mismanagement, greed and corruption issue?

Or, in many cases, is it primarily a product of living in the middle of nowhere, where there is no possibility of a good education, meaningful employment, creating value, doing business and moving lives forward? For any community to thrive in the "real world", they must individually and collectively create and sell value.

Remote Aboriginal communities either have to do the work required to attract customers (tourists) to visit them for a wonderful Aboriginal experience, or they need to leave the toxic native community and integrate into society, where the jobs and opportunity are, or sit and do nothing...and perish.

We keep hearing that Aboriginals want to retain their "traditional lifestyle". Since when was opening casinos, smuggling guns and cigarettes and living in squalor a "traditional lifestyle"?

As humans, we adapt and evolve...or we perish. My family's traditional life was being chimney sweeps in Cambridge, England in the 1800s. I've never cleaned a chimney. I've moved on.

A wise Aboriginal elder told me recently that, in his opinion, reservations should be closed down and his people should become part of the economic mainstream of North American life.

"It's the only way...reservations are destroying us." he says.

The problem is that for many Aboriginals, being an Indian has become an occupation. None of my Ukrainian friends think that being Ukrainian is an occupation. They're Ukrainian, and a teacher, Ukrainian and an accountant...anyway you get the idea. They paint fancy Easter Eggs and celebrate being Ukrainian for a couple of weeks out of the year, and then get on with life.

SPENCE


Chief Theresa Spence, from the tiny remote village of Attawapiskat on James Bay in Northern Ontario has become the lightning rod for media attention in this matter.

She has camped out with her entourage of media-savvy Aboriginal PR hacks near the Parliament Buildings, where she's on a "fish broth only" hunger strike. She vowed to stay in her campsite starving on fish broth until the Prime Minister agreed to meet with her. When he did agree, she changed her mind and refused to meet with him.

So, let's look at the impoverished "underfunded" village of Attawapiskat. The population is about 1500 people, living in about 400 households. To run that town of just 1500 souls, they have 3 chiefs and 18 Councillors on the payroll.

Chief Spence's "boyfriend" is the Town Financial Manager and between the two of them they're paid over $300,000 a year, tax-free. That's a level of poverty that most Canadians would be happy to struggle along on.

The town has a Technology Manager, paid $170,000 a year, to serve the 400 households. That's fewer households than we have in our condo building. They spent $36,000 on a goose hunt, and about $160,000 for a Zamboni for their indoor arena.

Between Government funding and the huge amount of money put into the community by the local diamond mine, there seems to be about $250,000 per family, per year...tax free. Oh, and the town has a $9 million stock portfolio.

When the Government wanted to send in an auditor to get to the bottom of this financial mismanagement, Chief Spence and her team of mis-managers were outraged. To this day, she refuses to answer questions about where all the money has gone. She just wants more of it.

Some of our Aboriginal citizens do "get it". Take a minute to read what Chief Clarence Louie from British Columbia says about what his people need to do to prosper (see below). This is the Aboriginal leader that other natives should be listening too. Not the ones camped out in Ottawa, or blocking highways and bridges across the country.

--

Donald Cooper has an MBA from the Ivey Business School at the University of Western Ontario followed by 18 years at Cooper Canada. From humble beginnings Cooper Canada became a world leading maker of sports equipment and a Canadian brand icon.
 

Plan B

Race Relations Expert
Jun 7, 2008
1,055
5
38
At some point everybody has to stand on their own 2 feet..this includes the Natives..I'm so tired of this "We were here first" nonsense. The wrongs of multiple generations and people who are no longer with us can simply not be corrected. Self-esteem cannot me produced if you are constantly getting a handout
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,072
3,991
113
The whole Aboriginal Act is fucked from top to bottom as far as I can tell.

I've dealt with native bands from time to time and there is no doubt whatsoever that they are corrupt from top to bottom. (That said, I've met some pretty decent people.)

I will not lie and say I have all the answers. Not even close.

My only thing is that I fully support giving the aboriginals access to better education and skills training. (Which they pretty much have already.) The only thing that will get them out of their current situtation is education. (And I do not include "our traditional ways" in that as there is positively no future in being a hunter / gatherer.)

As far as the management of the reserves go, I cannot fathom why the Gov't does not appoint a professional accounting and or engineering firm to oversee the running of the infrastructure. (Well, I do know that the Aboriginals would go nuts.)

The aboriginals clinging to "our traditional ways" only makes things worse in the long run.
 

simon482

internets icon
Feb 8, 2009
9,965
176
63
At some point everybody has to stand on their own 2 feet..this includes the Natives..I'm so tired of this "We were here first" nonsense. The wrongs of multiple generations and people who are no longer with us can simply not be corrected. Self-esteem cannot me produced if you are constantly getting a handout
they have all the same opportunities as everyone else. they made a deal and a few years later they figure out it was a bad deal and want more. it's like you buy a car and a few years later after you are done paying for the car the dealer shows up and wants more money cuz he had a bad week.
 

mrsCALoki

Banned
Jul 27, 2011
4,936
3
0
Are Canadians allowed to talk like that about your natives? Are you not worried they will occupy your roads or have a hunger strike where they only eat pizza or something?
 

HEYHEY

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2005
2,606
778
113
Im more concerned why the police wouldnt follow court orders to break up the protest.
 

great bear

The PUNisher
Apr 11, 2004
16,168
54
48
Nice Dens
Spent some time on native reserves. One in the very far north, one in Northern Ontario, and the other in Northern Manitoba. They all suffer from nepotism in band elections. During one election year half the reserve works for the band and the other half suffers then it gets reversed. This shit has been going on for years.
 

thumper18474

Well-known member
Spent some time on native reserves. One in the very far north, one in Northern Ontario, and the other in Northern Manitoba. They all suffer from nepotism in band elections. During one election year half the reserve works for the band and the other half suffers then it gets reversed. This shit has been going on for years.
THIS+1
its a cultural thing that goes back thousands of years.....
If you look at ANY culture of indingenous people , you will find this issue.
I've seen it first hand while I travelled in West Africa...you have CHIEFS (and their families) of the village that live in relative opulance ..because his ancestors were the dominant family in their specific demographic location....
If you check the lineage of the heads of the tribes you will probably find that their ancestors were of means...
 

dirkd101

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2005
10,437
264
83
eastern frontier
It's time to cut the unbilical cord and it's high time they stop using the same tired old lines about their ancestry and how the white man took it all away. Nobody has stood in their way for a long time, it's easy to play the victim.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,569
8
38
The whole Aboriginal Act is fucked from top to bottom as far as I can tell.

I've dealt with native bands from time to time and there is no doubt whatsoever that they are corrupt from top to bottom. (That said, I've met some pretty decent people.)

I will not lie and say I have all the answers. Not even close.

My only thing is that I fully support giving the aboriginals access to better education and skills training. (Which they pretty much have already.) The only thing that will get them out of their current situtation is education. (And I do not include "our traditional ways" in that as there is positively no future in being a hunter / gatherer.)

As far as the management of the reserves go, I cannot fathom why the Gov't does not appoint a professional accounting and or engineering firm to oversee the running of the infrastructure. (Well, I do know that the Aboriginals would go nuts.)

The aboriginals clinging to "our traditional ways" only makes things worse in the long run.

education and not staying on reserves that are in the middle of nowhere. (not that all of them are).

as far as engineering/accounting types running the infratrustructure- i agree if they go in with the mindset that they are going to work with the band and transfer their knowledge of building and business.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,569
8
38
Spent some time on native reserves. One in the very far north, one in Northern Ontario, and the other in Northern Manitoba. They all suffer from nepotism in band elections. During one election year half the reserve works for the band and the other half suffers then it gets reversed. This shit has been going on for years.
sounds like toronto city council. must be a way to blame rob ford for this
 

neverwas

Member
Nov 3, 2001
175
0
16
small town
As long as we have race based legal rights we will have an insolvable problem. This creates a concept of inherited rights that do not apply to the rest of our society.
The race based difference in enforcment of the existing laws is also a source of much concern to the rest of us.
The "problem" is being made worse by each step taken by our politicians and courts.
 

Worf

Active member
Sep 26, 2001
1,895
23
38
In a house somewhere
It's time to cut the unbilical cord and it's high time they stop using the same tired old lines about their ancestry and how the white man took it all away. Nobody has stood in their way for a long time, it's easy to play the victim.
Hear hear!

I always thought "idle no more" meant that they would stop being idle and go and get a job. I guess I was wrong.
 

MCHONE999

Banned
Jan 28, 2005
181
0
16
Milton
I always thought it meant they were otherwise "idle till now". Aboriginal peoples from all over the world - Italian, Polish, Ukrainian, Portugeuse etc, all become economic migrants, and thats only in the last 100 years, its been the way of survival for centuries. They left their ancestral homelands and tribal ways behind. They left due to poverty, famine and war. They all sucked it up and moved somewhere where they could work to give their families a better future. Maybe they just a history lesson on how its done. 999
 

Thunderballs

New member
Sep 18, 2002
2,098
13
0
Toronto
Funny but I don't see Mennonites constantly looking for a handout. They seem to live off the land independently while having a similar challenge of keeping their kids interested in taking up their culture and way of life. What is the excuse of the Indians?
 

neverwas

Member
Nov 3, 2001
175
0
16
small town
The USA, until 1860, tried race based legal rights. Some of those rights even lasted until the eventual success of the civil rights movement.
South Africa tried race based legal rights until the end of apatheid. Defining rights based on race should be odious to all of us, including to the beneficiaries of those rights.
I just don't understand why people don't understand the fundamental problem. It isn't just a culture of dependency or entitlement that is the problem.
 

Petzel

New member
Jul 4, 2011
6,623
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Vaughan
I knew a family of native Canadians living in mainstream society, not on a reservation. Problem was that most of the family were alcoholics and spent their time drinking instead of working. All the grown kids lived at home with the parents and the ones that did work only had part time jobs.
 
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