More truth from someone that actually knows what he is talking about.
http://www.cbc.ca/8thfire/2012/01/wab-kinews-walk-through-history.html
http://www.cbc.ca/8thfire/2012/01/wab-kinews-walk-through-history.html
Indian residential schools
- Thread starter danmand
- Start date
It doesn't matter that the people who did were responsible for these atrocities are no longer around, the entity that is the Canadian government did these things. The Canadian government exists today, and therefore it is responsible for the mess that all of this has created.Absolutely correct,...the problem is though,...those responsible no longer exist,...and anybody alive today is not responsible.
Am I supposed to feel responsible, and have to pay for the undoutably truly disgusting past,...???
The inverse is true. We as Canadians are benefiting from the past actions that have helped this country, actions that have taken place 50-100 years ago. We can't simply toss away the responsibilities and focus on the benefits. My family immigrated to Canada well after any of this ended, but when we became Canadians, we took on the privileges AND responsibilities of being Canadian. The simple excuse of 'I didn't do it, so now it's not my problem' simply doesn't fly here. You want to call yourself a Canadian, be responsible for the actions it takes and the actions it has taken. But this isn't a blame game. A lot of people say that all of this is some form of white guilt BS. It's not. Bad people with misguided values in the past decided that this was a good idea, and it's up to us to recognize that this shit happened, and move onward to fix it.
If you want to accept responsibility for what happened before I was born,...by my guest,...I do NOT,...and I have NO guilt.It doesn't matter that the people who did were responsible for these atrocities are no longer around, the entity that is the Canadian government did these things. The Canadian government exists today, and therefore it is responsible for the mess that all of this has created.
The inverse is true. We as Canadians are benefiting from the past actions that have helped this country, actions that have taken place 50-100 years ago. We can't simply toss away the responsibilities and focus on the benefits. My family immigrated to Canada well after any of this ended, but when we became Canadians, we took on the privileges AND responsibilities of being Canadian. The simple excuse of 'I didn't do it, so now it's not my problem' simply doesn't fly here. You want to call yourself a Canadian, be responsible for the actions it takes and the actions it has taken. But this isn't a blame game. A lot of people say that all of this is some form of white guilt BS. It's not. Bad people with misguided values in the past decided that this was a good idea, and it's up to us to recognize that this shit happened, and move onward to fix it.
And unless you have access to a time machine,...there is NOTHING I can do to change what happened before I was born, I was NOT responsible for what happened before I was born.
If you expect the current generations, and all future generation of Germany to accept responsibility for the holocaust,...that's ridiculous.
Do you accept responsibility for any shit done by your previous country,...if yes,...lets hear about them
I am Canadian,...and I will take responsibility for my actions,...hopefully you will also.
FAST
That is a nice attitude, do you ignore any and all laws passed before you were born? Do you violate copyright and intellectual property rights granted before you were born? Do you respect borders on countries that were drawn before you were born?If you want to accept responsibility for what happened before I was born,...by my guest,...I do NOT,...and I have NO guilt.
And unless you have access to a time machine,...there is NOTHING I can do to change what happened before I was born, I was NOT responsible for what happened before I was born.
If you expect the current generations, and all future generation of Germany to accept responsibility for the holocaust,...that's ridiculous.
Do you accept responsibility for any shit done by your previous country,...if yes,...lets hear about them
I am Canadian,...and I will take responsibility for my actions,...hopefully you will also.
FAST
Holy crap,...could you make a more ridiculous comparison,...That is a nice attitude, do you ignore any and all laws passed before you were born? Do you violate copyright and intellectual property rights granted before you were born? Do you respect borders on countries that were drawn before you were born?
I don't know why I even bother to respond to your idiocy,...but I do NOT ignore was had happened,...I will just NOT be held responsible for something I had absolutely NOTHING to do with.
And again,...if you want to held responsible for every screwed up thing that a government AND church has done,...or will do in Canada,...be my guest.
So you are the one responsible for killing off all of the bison,... and all of the other wild life that once roamed in Canada ,...nice to know,...feel better now,...???.
FAST
It's easier than ever to move around. Nobody in Canada will stop someone from moving from city to city or overseas. If someone wants to leave, go ahead. Sell everything and move to which ever city or country will allow you. The government and banks don't care you take all your money and transfer it to Antarctica.
If many Natives have issues, then man up and change. Move, do whatever it takes.
There are tons of immigrants who come to Canada for a better life. Many can barely even speak English, yet they take the initiative to pack up their bags, bring the family and move to another country (Canada). Actually, many may come over alone and bring the family later. So that's an extra big step... leaving your family behind. And despite Canada trying to weed in only the successful prospects, lets face it. Many immigrants come over with little language and technical skills, little money, so you see they end up in some crummy apartment complexes working at equally crappy jobs taking the bus everywhere since they can't afford a car or maybe don't even have a driver's license. While I whiz by, they are standing at a bus stop in the rain and winter.
So if many immigrants can put in a good effort and take the initiative to move to another country halfway around the world, why does it seem like such an eternal struggle for Natives to generally move up the ranks like many other immigrants and ethnicities? I don't see my Asian or East Indian friends getting any perks Natives get. I don't see the Carribean guy I know or the Nigerian guy I know (who both came over) getting any special perks. They got here and got with the program and got a job like everyone else.
Is one part of it the whole tax-free thing on reservations so they don't want to leave or else they have to pay tax at the store like everyone else? Or any other perks they get on reservation, but lost when outside of the reservation?
It seems like one of those situations where even if the government gave every Native $1 million and tons of social services to help out, somehow given enough time, there would be a general trend it would all be wasted.
On the other hand, if the government gave all the Asian or East Indian immigrants who come to Canada $1 million, they would probably spend it wisely and probably make good use of it.
Go figure.
People have to realize that even in today's world where things move fast, some things can still take eons. When it comes to government stuff, it can take forever to change. When it comes to constructing better infrastructure and buildings that can take ages.
So if someone, or some people have big issues where they are living, guess what? Instead of waiting around forever, sometimes it's best to just get off your ass and do something about it. As I said in page 2, my parents (along with millions of others) were caught in that whole commie crap in the 50s. They didn't just sit there hoping for the government to change. They basically said to themselves, "fuck this", and decided to move their ass to Canada. Many family members were left behind, some preferred staying there, and some couldn't get out. Didn't even speak one word of English. Take some English classes, go to school, get a job, the whole shabang. And they didn't get to Canada until maybe their late teens. Imagine that, they have nothing to their name, and can't speak English. The avg Canadian raised citizen must have had a good 10+ year head start on them. Who cares. No doubt, their start is harder than someone born and raised in Canada in middle class, but who cares. Nobody said life is fair and everyone is dealt the same hand. My parents didn't just sit there overseas expecting the government to change and assuming they'll get special recognition or help decades later. They took control of their own lives and didn't expect others to auto-fix things for them. And their ordeal was only about 60 years ago.
My friend who came from Nigeria didn't come over and ask the government for stuff. The fact he came over probably means Nigeria wasn't the greatest place to stay in. He just manned up and joined everyone else in the melting pot, and now works and lives among everyone.
If many Natives have issues, then man up and change. Move, do whatever it takes.
There are tons of immigrants who come to Canada for a better life. Many can barely even speak English, yet they take the initiative to pack up their bags, bring the family and move to another country (Canada). Actually, many may come over alone and bring the family later. So that's an extra big step... leaving your family behind. And despite Canada trying to weed in only the successful prospects, lets face it. Many immigrants come over with little language and technical skills, little money, so you see they end up in some crummy apartment complexes working at equally crappy jobs taking the bus everywhere since they can't afford a car or maybe don't even have a driver's license. While I whiz by, they are standing at a bus stop in the rain and winter.
So if many immigrants can put in a good effort and take the initiative to move to another country halfway around the world, why does it seem like such an eternal struggle for Natives to generally move up the ranks like many other immigrants and ethnicities? I don't see my Asian or East Indian friends getting any perks Natives get. I don't see the Carribean guy I know or the Nigerian guy I know (who both came over) getting any special perks. They got here and got with the program and got a job like everyone else.
Is one part of it the whole tax-free thing on reservations so they don't want to leave or else they have to pay tax at the store like everyone else? Or any other perks they get on reservation, but lost when outside of the reservation?
It seems like one of those situations where even if the government gave every Native $1 million and tons of social services to help out, somehow given enough time, there would be a general trend it would all be wasted.
On the other hand, if the government gave all the Asian or East Indian immigrants who come to Canada $1 million, they would probably spend it wisely and probably make good use of it.
Go figure.
People have to realize that even in today's world where things move fast, some things can still take eons. When it comes to government stuff, it can take forever to change. When it comes to constructing better infrastructure and buildings that can take ages.
So if someone, or some people have big issues where they are living, guess what? Instead of waiting around forever, sometimes it's best to just get off your ass and do something about it. As I said in page 2, my parents (along with millions of others) were caught in that whole commie crap in the 50s. They didn't just sit there hoping for the government to change. They basically said to themselves, "fuck this", and decided to move their ass to Canada. Many family members were left behind, some preferred staying there, and some couldn't get out. Didn't even speak one word of English. Take some English classes, go to school, get a job, the whole shabang. And they didn't get to Canada until maybe their late teens. Imagine that, they have nothing to their name, and can't speak English. The avg Canadian raised citizen must have had a good 10+ year head start on them. Who cares. No doubt, their start is harder than someone born and raised in Canada in middle class, but who cares. Nobody said life is fair and everyone is dealt the same hand. My parents didn't just sit there overseas expecting the government to change and assuming they'll get special recognition or help decades later. They took control of their own lives and didn't expect others to auto-fix things for them. And their ordeal was only about 60 years ago.
My friend who came from Nigeria didn't come over and ask the government for stuff. The fact he came over probably means Nigeria wasn't the greatest place to stay in. He just manned up and joined everyone else in the melting pot, and now works and lives among everyone.
There is a difference between taking responsibility and guilt. No one is saying that anyone today needs to feel guilty about what happened in the past. I never understand why I'm reading this a lot now days. I've noticed a lot of comments online (outside Terb) that says that white people (of today) are being blamed for slavery etc, whenever this Confederate flag discussion comes up. This is taking an argument to a whole different topic. To be clear, taking action to help fix a past injustice done to others doesn't automatically make you guilty.If you want to accept responsibility for what happened before I was born,...by my guest,...I do NOT,...and I have NO guilt.
No one is saying change the past, I don't know why you would even bring this point up. What I have said is now we can do something in the present, and shape our future. You were not responsible for what happened, but a huge injustice has been done to an entire people. But in a hypothetical scenario where everything else is equal, you would rather vote for a government to have a blind eye to them, rather then a government who would take steps to try to rectify the situation?And unless you have access to a time machine,...there is NOTHING I can do to change what happened before I was born, I was NOT responsible for what happened before I was born.
Of course, and they have. They have revamped their justice system to hopefully never allow such an atrocity to ever occur again. They have enacted laws against holocaust denial. There is a level of pacifism prevalent in German society that stems from WW2, which led to them not participating in the deadly and costly Iraq War.If you expect the current generations, and all future generation of Germany to accept responsibility for the holocaust,...that's ridiculous.
Yes. Even though I have renounced the citizenship from my old country, poverty has become the root cause for a number of issues. I never had a say in the horrible policies that compounded those problems, but they exist. I have and continue to donate my first salary of the year to combating poverty and illiteracy. It's not enough, but it's better in my opinion to simply say 'Fuck it, not my problem', and have a bit of compassion and a sense of empathy. In the same spirit, I donate the last paycheck of the year to Canadian charities.Do you accept responsibility for any shit done by your previous country,...if yes,...lets hear about them
I think it's abundantly clear that while I embrace the faults and the responsibilities of what it means to be a Canadian at large, you seem singularly focused on yourself. But in my opinion, in my years of living in this epic country, filled with amazing people, I am happy to say that I see very few people like you, and more people who can empathize, and care for others.I am Canadian,...and I will take responsibility for my actions,...hopefully you will also.
The general sense that i get is that life on a reservation sucks. So while this stuff is in the past the present has not been fixed.
It may have been the past but depending on statutes of limitations i think some atrocities still should be pursued.
It may have been the past but depending on statutes of limitations i think some atrocities still should be pursued.
Since the Aboriginals biologically are no different than anyone else, here is a simple but maybe very radical solution:
Aboriginal success, through SELF RELIANCE.
Aboriginal success, through SELF RELIANCE.
A lot of sociologists would disagree thst it is as simple as pulling up your boot straps.Since the Aboriginals biologically are no different than anyone else, here is a simple but maybe very radical solution:
Aboriginal success, through SELF RELIANCE.
Let's say you live on a reservation. You want a better future for your kid so you encourage them to do well in school. Sounds like a great plan but your school is like an out of the movies inner city style environment.
Okay move off the res. What skills do you have? What rent can you afford? And lets not pretend there are aboriginals doing that. I am sure there are. My point is that it is a tough go.
And yes i am sure you will tell us about your immigrant parents. But let's face it if an immigrant parent failed and i am surr plenty have. You won't hear about it...... especially not on a sitr for an expensive hobby. Plus not many people are going to stand up and say thst their life is shit thanks to their failed immigrant parents.Since the Aboriginals biologically are no different than anyone else, here is a simple but maybe very radical solution:
Aboriginal success, through SELF RELIANCE.
So sure you hesr those heart warming stories but it skews your view because the opposite stories aren't the kind people share
I dont know what the answer is but i am pretty sure pretending thst their is no problem and that the solution is to try harder is not very helpful.
Life is a tough go for everybody, Aboriginal or not. I would not agree that most people are pretending there is no problem, but compounding the problem is that most if not all Aboriginals that reside on reserve tend to live in the past and complain about it. It is unfortunate that Aboriginals are raised in such a way that they inherit the "chip on their shoulder" attitude handed down from generation to generation. These people have more infrastructure help available to them through the Federal and Provincial government than the average working family does. No one is forcing Aboriginals to stay on reserve, however it is easier dealing with the "devil you know" than the one you don't.I dont know what the answer is but i am pretty sure pretending thst their is no problem and that the solution is to try harder is not very helpful.
If these people do not want to approach the government for help then they should be receiving that help through the band council. However, why should any individual or organization feel obliged to help someone who does not cooperate in receiving help, and would rather mire themselves in the past and continue to complain about it. A lot of these people do not want to integrate into society, they just keep making demands that they want their own law, they want their own schools, they want their own government etc. I cannot recall recently or in the past at anytime that they have expressed any gratitude for what they have obtained whether through a law suit or not; they just keep asking for more.
I recently was listening to the radio and they were interviewing an aboriginal on reserve who was expressing his concern for his children's education and mostly job opportunities that would be available considering the state of the economy at present. He is so concerned for his "seven" that's right "seven" children, that after the first two he had five more, and who does he blame for this peril, the government. I guess the government made him do it and again it is easier to blame someone else than take ownership of the blame.
The start of the process to put their lives in order and to come close to par with the average Canadian is pretty straight forward, abolish the Indian Act. But, in order for that process to be successful you need people that are eager to make an attempt at change for the better, and for Aboriginals that have grown up in their secular society that initiates the "chip on my shoulder" attitude against the rest of Canada, it is doubtful that the needed change will happen any time soon.
Insulted
OK,...I'm done with you,...complete waste of bandwidth.
Your original quote,...It doesn't matter that the people who did were responsible for these atrocities are no longer around, the entity that is the Canadian government did these things. The Canadian government exists today, and therefore it is responsible for the mess that all of this has created.
Of coarse the Canadian government exits today,…Canada exits today,…that is a dumb statement
Since you are saying is that any and all governments past, present and future,…of Canada are responsible for that shit,...why in hell would anybody,...even from some shit whole of a country,… immigrate to Canada,...
What happened to the black slaves and the Indians in Schools is the same,…but do NOT blame my countries government for either.
And just because you are embarrassed about were you came from,…does NOT make that my problem either.
I’m not sure if you are aware or not,…but in your comparison to Germany,… a Canadian government changed the laws regarding that shit a long time ago,…way before your time.
Mind you,…not sure how the religions of the world still look at their part,…and the practice today, you would be more qualified to answer that.
You obviously have other motives than blaming me for that shit,…your quote,… you would rather vote for a government to have a blind eye to them, rather then a government who would take steps to try to rectify the situation?,...idiot,...NO government can change what happened,...the situation does NOT exist today,…they have their own schools.
A lesson for you,…being a Canadian allows me to vote for what ever government I choose,…do NOT tell me who to vote for,…that’s unCanadian
And if you actually want to be enlightened,...read posts #86 and 93.
To close,…do NOT insult me by saying I have no empathy for others,…you have no idea about who I am,…my guess is,…that you blame every WHITE Canadian for every none white persons plight,…
And,… I am glad that what you call an entity,… that is the Canadian government,…was able to help you and your family.
FAST
OK,...I'm done with you,...complete waste of bandwidth.
Your original quote,...It doesn't matter that the people who did were responsible for these atrocities are no longer around, the entity that is the Canadian government did these things. The Canadian government exists today, and therefore it is responsible for the mess that all of this has created.
Of coarse the Canadian government exits today,…Canada exits today,…that is a dumb statement
Since you are saying is that any and all governments past, present and future,…of Canada are responsible for that shit,...why in hell would anybody,...even from some shit whole of a country,… immigrate to Canada,...
What happened to the black slaves and the Indians in Schools is the same,…but do NOT blame my countries government for either.
And just because you are embarrassed about were you came from,…does NOT make that my problem either.
I’m not sure if you are aware or not,…but in your comparison to Germany,… a Canadian government changed the laws regarding that shit a long time ago,…way before your time.
Mind you,…not sure how the religions of the world still look at their part,…and the practice today, you would be more qualified to answer that.
You obviously have other motives than blaming me for that shit,…your quote,… you would rather vote for a government to have a blind eye to them, rather then a government who would take steps to try to rectify the situation?,...idiot,...NO government can change what happened,...the situation does NOT exist today,…they have their own schools.
A lesson for you,…being a Canadian allows me to vote for what ever government I choose,…do NOT tell me who to vote for,…that’s unCanadian
And if you actually want to be enlightened,...read posts #86 and 93.
To close,…do NOT insult me by saying I have no empathy for others,…you have no idea about who I am,…my guess is,…that you blame every WHITE Canadian for every none white persons plight,…
And,… I am glad that what you call an entity,… that is the Canadian government,…was able to help you and your family.
FAST
Agreed.Life is a tough go for everybody, Aboriginal or not. I would not agree that most people are pretending there is no problem, but compounding the problem is that most if not all Aboriginals that reside on reserve tend to live in the past and complain about it. It is unfortunate that Aboriginals are raised in such a way that they inherit the "chip on their shoulder" attitude handed down from generation to generation. These people have more infrastructure help available to them through the Federal and Provincial government than the average working family does. No one is forcing Aboriginals to stay on reserve, however it is easier dealing with the "devil you know" than the one you don't.
If these people do not want to approach the government for help then they should be receiving that help through the band council. However, why should any individual or organization feel obliged to help someone who does not cooperate in receiving help, and would rather mire themselves in the past and continue to complain about it. A lot of these people do not want to integrate into society, they just keep making demands that they want their own law, they want their own schools, they want their own government etc. I cannot recall recently or in the past at anytime that they have expressed any gratitude for what they have obtained whether through a law suit or not; they just keep asking for more.
I recently was listening to the radio and they were interviewing an aboriginal on reserve who was expressing his concern for his children's education and mostly job opportunities that would be available considering the state of the economy at present. He is so concerned for his "seven" that's right "seven" children, that after the first two he had five more, and who does he blame for this peril, the government. I guess the government made him do it and again it is easier to blame someone else than take ownership of the blame.
The start of the process to put their lives in order and to come close to par with the average Canadian is pretty straight forward, abolish the Indian Act. But, in order for that process to be successful you need people that are eager to make an attempt at change for the better, and for Aboriginals that have grown up in their secular society that initiates the "chip on my shoulder" attitude against the rest of Canada, it is doubtful that the needed change will happen any time soon.
Nobody says there's no issues on reserves. What defenders don't seem to understand is why the heck does so many people from other parts of the world have the initiative to make their life better by taking the risk and effort to get their asses to better places to live and work. You have people 10,000 km away who pack up the bags and try their luck in Canada or the US, or Europe. No guarantee it will be a successful attempt. Some fail and probably look back and think it would have been better to stay where they were, but some do well.
But at least the attempt is there and you don't see immigrants complaining about lack of support. Many have lousy skills and most immigrate to the big cities.... which is both good and bad. Good that it's a melting pot of people and jobs, but also risky as the cost of living is much higher than a small town. That's why big cities have so many of those old crusty rental apartments, you don't really see in small towns. To cater to people with jobs that pay poor. Yet most immigrants try their luck in cities like Toronto and Montreal.
It's not like the conditions on reserves are going to change with the snap of the finger. It's 2015 and I don't think anyone is expecting huge turnarounds in a short time. So instead of complaining and hoping everything magically transforms in a year, best thing to do is get off your butt, pack up the bags and try your luck in another part of Canada. And if someone doesn't like Canada, go elsewhere. Canadians are welcome just about anywhere in world and would love if you transferred over assets to their banking systems. Nobody said you have to live in Canada. Just like immigrants, they try their luck in Western countries. And immigrants have to go through all the process of doing it, buy airfare for the family etc.... A big gamble.
I think a big part of it has to do with the perks they get. Reading up on it, it seems some are on valid only if you stay on the reserve (something to do with not needing to pay taxes). So I think many are caught where they want to leave, but also don't want to leave or else they have to pay taxes on stuff like everyone else. Well, that's a decision a Native person has to decide. Stay on reserves which the conditions and opportunities aren't that great and pocket tax savings, or move to a small or big city with better conditions and jobs, but pay taxes.
It's just puzzling how some Canadian's complain and think they are getting the short end of the stick, yet you see so many newcomers to Canada do well. It takes effort and drive to change and succeed. It doesn't take effort to just hum along. Some people have the knack of bettering themselves, some don't.
For all the complainers out there, all you have to do is look at fellow immigrants (newcomers now or people who came decades ago or in the early 1900s). While you (or a group of people) complain and expect ongoing government handouts, a lot of immigrants who come to Canada with little skills, lousy or no English skills, even with education had to re-do it as it's not recognized in Canada or companies, have low amounts of assets...... yet given enough time have succeeded. No doubt some failed, but many have done well. Heck, so many of them even open up their own business because 1. they want to control their own destiny and 2. maybe they realized many companies don't want to hire them. So they probably put 2 and 2 together and said screw this, I'll be my own boss. That takes a lot of balls to do that. Even if it's just opening up a shitty store or kiosk at a shopping mall, that's a lot of cost and risk as the business may fail. But even if it does, at least it shows initiative and drive.
As an example for myself, I live and work in the GTA... good job and all, but was thinking about a job in Vancouver. All my friends and family are here (aside from a few acquaintances in BC), but for sake of a better job I was serious thinking about going there. Even got to the point of me calculating what my adjusted mortgage payments would be and if it's better to sell/give away everything and buy everything there fresh (easier), or pack up everything and pay for movers to ship it across the country.
I decided to stay, but mainly because my job is good enough here and not worth the risk of leaving and the new job being crap. BUT, if I had a crap job here with little prospects and Toronto GTA was a shithole to live in, I would probably already be there now in hopes it's the right move for myself. Toronto might be the biggest hub in Canada, but that doesn't mean other places don't have opportunity.
I thought immigrants had to pass certain criteria be it having money, education, or skills.
Or refugees who are fleeing fucked up situations.
Sounds to me the immigrants would have at least one or more big advantages over a native.
The refugee has the advantage of perspective...... if your previous life was terrible canada would look like paradise.
But it seems to me that when we get on the topic of welfare we hear from people complaining about paying for immigrants to get a free ride.
So which is it? Are immigrants hard working examples of the canadiandream or tax burden?
Can we have it both ways?
But going back to natives there are systemic barriers...... are you going to leave say northern Ontario to work a min wage job and have to wonder about a roof and meals? Are you going to leave your parents?
I can only move so far because i need to be within driving range of my elderly parents.
I doubt feel sorry for those people....... but i understand why it is not so easy for an entire generation to walk off the reserve and put on a MacDonald uniform.
And racism is still alive and well. That probably doesn't make the post reservation life appealing. I see racist shit all the time. Just the other day i watched a bunch of suburban white boys go crazy over the dark skin of a black girl.they were acting like they had never seen a black girl and they weren't worried about how loud they were about it.
And sorry considering moving from your good job in toronto for a better job in Vancouver hardly compares. Yiu are humming and haing over a bmw vs Benz. The native is looking at a bus pass.
Or refugees who are fleeing fucked up situations.
Sounds to me the immigrants would have at least one or more big advantages over a native.
The refugee has the advantage of perspective...... if your previous life was terrible canada would look like paradise.
But it seems to me that when we get on the topic of welfare we hear from people complaining about paying for immigrants to get a free ride.
So which is it? Are immigrants hard working examples of the canadiandream or tax burden?
Can we have it both ways?
But going back to natives there are systemic barriers...... are you going to leave say northern Ontario to work a min wage job and have to wonder about a roof and meals? Are you going to leave your parents?
I can only move so far because i need to be within driving range of my elderly parents.
I doubt feel sorry for those people....... but i understand why it is not so easy for an entire generation to walk off the reserve and put on a MacDonald uniform.
And racism is still alive and well. That probably doesn't make the post reservation life appealing. I see racist shit all the time. Just the other day i watched a bunch of suburban white boys go crazy over the dark skin of a black girl.they were acting like they had never seen a black girl and they weren't worried about how loud they were about it.
And sorry considering moving from your good job in toronto for a better job in Vancouver hardly compares. Yiu are humming and haing over a bmw vs Benz. The native is looking at a bus pass.
You completely missed my points.I thought immigrants had to pass certain criteria be it having money, education, or skills.
Or refugees who are fleeing fucked up situations.
Sounds to me the immigrants would have at least one or more big advantages over a native.
The refugee has the advantage of perspective...... if your previous life was terrible canada would look like paradise.
But it seems to me that when we get on the topic of welfare we hear from people complaining about paying for immigrants to get a free ride.
So which is it? Are immigrants hard working examples of the canadiandream or tax burden?
Can we have it both ways?
But going back to natives there are systemic barriers...... are you going to leave say northern Ontario to work a min wage job and have to wonder about a roof and meals? Are you going to leave your parents?
I can only move so far because i need to be within driving range of my elderly parents.
I doubt feel sorry for those people....... but i understand why it is not so easy for an entire generation to walk off the reserve and put on a MacDonald uniform.
And racism is still alive and well. That probably doesn't make the post reservation life appealing. I see racist shit all the time. Just the other day i watched a bunch of suburban white boys go crazy over the dark skin of a black girl.they were acting like they had never seen a black girl and they weren't worried about how loud they were about it.
And sorry considering moving from your good job in toronto for a better job in Vancouver hardly compares. Yiu are humming and haing over a bmw vs Benz. The native is looking at a bus pass.
1. Immigrants coming over can succeed or fail. But either way, they show initiative to cross an ocean and leave behind friends and family for a possibly better life.
2. As I said about my Toronto/Vanc decision. If my job in Toronto was bad and the area was crummy to live in (like how Native reserves are perceived), I would have taken the job out west. Nobody came banging on my door, I just put in some time searching jobs across the country and turns out something interesting was in Vancouver just by luck as offices are over there. Got to put in some effort and scour job sites and recruiters and hopefully you'll get a call. Got to take the initiative and look like you want it, instead of expecting people to hand it to you.
3. Immigrants being tax burdens or hard working contributors is hit and miss. Some do well, some don't do well. But either way, I don't see any of them complaining to the government for hand outs. Either way, when they work or buy stuff they pay tax like everyone else. On the other hand, Natives are given tax exempt status in certain situations. So comparing tax contributions between Natives and anyone else is a no brainer freebie benefit for Natives.
Its a different situation.You completely missed my points.
Its not correct to compare a culture that was almost destroyed and is trying to rediscover itself and is still seething after decades of poor treatment.
To ask them to move away from the last vestiges of their culture is to give up on it and to give up hope on reclaiming their ways.
That's quite different from someone who can move away yet still refer to an existing home country and culture.
There are a number of native languages that are dying out, for instance.
Not much a country to call home if many are willing get out and travel half way around the world. What immigrants do is usually come to Toronto, Montreal or or some other larger Canadian cities. You don't see many banging on the door to go to Moose Jaw.Its a different situation.
Its not correct to compare a culture that was almost destroyed and is trying to rediscover itself and is still seething after decades of poor treatment.
To ask them to move away from the last vestiges of their culture is to give up on it and to give up hope on reclaiming their ways.
That's quite different from someone who can move away yet still refer to an existing home country and culture.
There are a number of native languages that are dying out, for instance.
As I said, it takes time to fix things, and a good initiative changes things.
Canada's 35M people is still moreso European descent. Mainly British, French and probably German and Italian and Polish. Over time, people come from around the world and over the past probably 30-40 years, there's big influx of Asian, East Indian, Southern Asian, and smaller numbers of Caribbean/African people coming to Canada.
In that time, what happens is that the big cities change and it morphs from being 100% Euro-centric to more or a melting hub where you have designated pockets of people and businesses.... Chinatown, Little India, Greektown etc..... No doubt, the overall lifestyle is still Western, but you see a mix of people and style in places like Toronto. Greektown will never be Greece and the seemingly million Asian hubs around the GTA will never be actual China or Korea, but hey people move here and do the best they can. A combo of western living and some familiarity of multi-cultural, so it's not 100% British and French stuff like it probably was in 1900.
If many Natives prefer to stay on reserves, that's their choice. Nobody is forcing anyone to move. What you'll get is job opportunities and living conditions that are going to still be pretty lousy compared to everywhere else. Expecting the government to keep on offering bail out dough because some people don't want to move to cities with better opportunities shows laziness. Get off your ass.
As I said, it can change, but like above takes time. Maybe if more Natives got off reserves and moved to the big cities like most people (Canada is very urbanized), then there could have already been "Nativetown" already. And maybe Toronto and Montreal or Vancouver or Calgary can still have "Nativetown" years from now. But it takes people to put in the effort to be part of the city. It seems just about every large ethnicity has their own style and area in the GTA, so Natives can too. Yonge/Finch seems like all Korean restaurants and grocery stores. You'd never see that 10-15 years ago. Well, looks like many Koreans staked out that area as a hub. That's great. And I don't think anyone in the GTA cares. As long as the city runs well and everyone gets along people appreciate the multiculturalism. At some point, the GTA will probably have more minorities than the stereotypical "European white guy". Doesn't matter. It's a melting pot of people and people like it. I don't see people in the GTA wanting to prevent Natives from coming by the 1,000s and over time having a noticeable face of Toronto. I've been living in the GTA almost my entire life and I honestly can't remember the last time I saw someone or some business that is Native-related. I'm sure there must be some distinct Native culture areas or businesses (???), but I don't see them. Yet every other ethnicity seems to get their 2 cents in.
The trade-off is clear. Native reserves don't seem to have great job opps or living conditions. And by the looks of it, that won't be changing overnight. Even if the government contributed $100 billion to revitalize the areas, it would take decades and decades for companies to rebuild everything new and have adequate support to help people out. And I don't see the government offering $100 billion. So, if anyone wants something better, chances are pretty certain it's up to the person/family to make the decision to stick around or try their luck elsewhere. Nobody is taking their culture away. Just as immigrants who come from 10,000 km away and "still have a home country" as you said, well Natives also have their "home turf" 2,000 km away wherever it is up north. It's a give and take. Up to them.
The thing about multiculturism in Canada is that it it's very concentrated in certain cities. But what happens is that when certain groups of people contribute to a city, over years and decades, fellow people and expand. That opens up more jobs, more opportunities and also familiarity with people with the same culture. It will never replicate the original country overseas, but nobody said it should or would. And the government never said they would guarantee replication. It's up to people to carry it on or not.
You completely and conveniently miss the point or don't understand the issue beyond your shallow, "pull up your bootstraps" myopic nonsense.You completely missed my points.
The issue of First Nations in Canada is both a legal and moral one. Until those issues are resolved, there can be very little progress.
Lands were taken under false auspices. Promises were made and never fulfilled. Laws were enacted that paint First Nations into a corner.
Look up the Indian Act, the various treaties and the obligations of the Crown and government to Canada's First Nations. Our government and monarchy has failed on almost every count.
Further, we have made it virtually impossible for First Nations to continue in either a traditional lifestyle or a modern "westernized" one by destroying traditional hunting, trapping, fishing, gathering lands and by not providing adequate access to health, education, drinking water/housing/infrastructure respectively. That is without bringing into account the issue of land ownership rights.
So First Nations are caught in a no-man's land in between.
Neither a "self-made" man like yourself or all of these heroic immigrants that you point to would just give up your or their birthright without the cover of 'status' - and that's the vicious circle First Nations in Canada are forced to exist in.
Try to understand the history (and perhaps gain a little perspective + empathy) before making bold, sweeping statements that really aren't relevant to the facts at hand. Or actually read the report of the the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to understand that your Toronto-Vancouver hypothetical quandary is insignificant and quite frankly, insulting, compared with what First Nations have dealt with for hundreds of years without resolution.
