Info on good suits from all you business types

[Berlin]

Ignore "designer labels" - designers will stick their name on anything if someone gives them enough money to do so...

And how do you define " designer labels " ?

Mind you, there are techniques in tailoring that only machines can pull, and visa versa . Can a tailor duplicate Armani's shoulders ? Not a chance. And I don't even want to touch on fabrics.

In the end, It boils down to what sort of look you think fits you best, budget permitting. Hand made suits do not always mean better than quality " designer Label " counterparts.

Shiek hit it right on the nail.

I suggest Punisher should head to Sears men's wear dept Eaton Centre, try out some entry level ones. Then visit Holt, or Harry Rosen and try on some Hugo Boss or Zegna , and ask himself if he can feel or tell the difference and again, most importantly, if he has the budget for his choice.

Who knows, may be a Point Zero suit would fit his needs perfectly.

 

[goodtime]

you know You ride on the Subway/airplane/ in the car...They take a beating.

No offence, but I always laugh at guys that wear suits in plane. I did it once first time in a long haul flight.

Now, I rather carry it than wear it. Need loose clothing, room for my jewels in the high altitude. Just in case I sit next to a movie star.

 

[RTRD]

That reminds me...

One more thing I want to add is that the shoulders of all nice suits/overcoats are nicely tailored. They are all nice and smooth without any wrinkles in the seams that you will always see in those cheap suits/overcoats because of the quality of the tailors.

...what you say here is true, but you might be wrong regarding the reason (might).

I've been told the reason this happens is the difference between tailoring (assuming it is done well of course) and glue.

Expensive suits are tailored (as in sewn) together at the seams and other places. Cheap suits are glued. Not only is it difficult to get the glued fabric to behave properly (again because it is being done by a machine versus painstakingly by hand), but with time and cleanings the panels / fabric in a suit will naturally shift. Sewn / tailored seams will of course shift as well. Glued? Nope. Hence the wrinkles and puckering..

Again, this is what I've been told...

 

[RTRD]

What?

And how do you define " designer labels " ?

Mind you, there are techniques in tailoring that only machines can pull, and visa versa . Can a tailor duplicate Armani's shoulders ? Not a chance. And I don't even want to touch on fabrics.

In the end, It boils down to what sort of look you think fits you best, budget permitting. Hand made suits do not always mean better than quality " designer Label " counterparts.

Shiek hit it right on the nail.

I suggest Punisher should head to Sears men's wear dept Eaton Centre, try out some entry level ones. Then visit Holt, or Harry Rosen and try on some Hugo Boss or Zegna , and ask himself if he can feel or tell the difference and again, most importantly, if he has the budget for his choice.

Who knows, may be a Point Zero suit would fit his needs perfectly.

Are you saying you cannpt get top grade fabrics by having a suit made?

This is what I mean by "designer label" - Giorgio Armani has SEVERAL different lines of clothing. Only at the top of that tier did he actually have anything to do with the design. The others are mearly where he has marketed / sold his name as a brand.

The second least expensive suit (after the Moore's joke) I own is a Donna Karen that I purchase for a party in NYC on a lark. Many people would look at it and think it is a great suit, from the cut (very trendy / stylish) to the color (the perfect charcoal grey...as dark as a suit could be without actually being "black"...the hints of silver seem to shine like tiny diamonds or stars...). I actually enjoy wearing it - it makes me look "hip". But it is a cheap suit - first, I know what I paid for it (about US$500), second, anyone who knows suits can look at it and tell it came off an assembly line somewhere in East Asia...and right before it was another suit just like it with a "Hugo Boss" label, and after it came an identical one with an "Armani" label.

The reason I prefer a tailored suit is because a) I get to pick the fabrics and b) It will be tailored to fit ME...not the person they think I should be (trendy "designer" suits) or the "average" guy (cheap off the rack suits). Insofar as a debate about quality, well, that is a debate. I rather trust a tailor who is counting on my (and other customers) repeat business and good word of mouth than a big ass company that uses a label to sell its products.

Are the best designer suits high quality? Yes. But I presumed we were talking in the price range that is being discussed here. If you paid less than $2000 for your suit, the only thing "designer" about it is the label - it came from the same factory as a bunch of other "designer"" suits, and was made and cut to spec by a machine, with an assumption that you would fit it, not it fit you. Yes each "designer" has a somewhat unique cut, but so what? If they still use glue and foam versus wool and sewn tailoring, what damn difference does it make, unless you are a poser who cares more about what it "looks" like than how it fits (see comments re: my Donna Karen).

Which leads to my last point - I assumed Frank was looking for a single suit to wear on a handful of occassions when he needed to be taken seriously. Not to parties, not to clubs. You walk into an interview or serious meeting with a stylish designer suit on you run the risk of being diminished in the eyes of the person you are meeting...as in "nice suit...heading to the club when we get done here?" You can only pull that off when people are coming to meet YOU...then you can wear what the fuck you want. On the other hand, you walk into that meeting with a well made conservative suit, and the only thing people notice is that you are wearing a well made conservative suit. You aren't a wanna be poser, you are a guy who knows where and how to spend his money - so lets see if we will trust you with managing some of ours...

There is a difference....

All that said...this...

"I suggest Punisher should head to Sears men's wear dept Eaton Centre, try out some entry level ones. Then visit Holt, or Harry Rosen and try on some Hugo Boss or Zegna , and ask himself if he can feel or tell the difference and again, most importantly, if he has the budget for his choice.

Who knows, may be a Point Zero suit would fit his needs perfectly"

...wasn't bad advice. I just assumed the man would have already known they sold suits at Sears and The Bay, and thus was looking for something better when he asked for guidance....

 

[Diode]

No offence, but I always laugh at guys that wear suits in plane. I did it once first time in a long haul flight.

Now, I rather carry it than wear it. Need loose clothing, room for my jewels in the high altitude. Just in case I sit next to a movie star.

If you can change, sure...that's great. Not always time or space.
What if someone is meeting you at the airport? or you're catching a flight right from a customer meeting.
But most of the flights I take are less than 3 hours.

 

[Scorpion King]

FC,

You have more than enough good tips here. MLAM sure seems to know his stuff in this regard and I'd agree with his suggestions too.

I'd only add three things.

1. Take someone with you when you go. Preferably a lady, who will give you an honest opinion of how you look once you try it on. Again, I agree with MLAMs points - but I'm sure I'd still find a way to mess it up - if I didnt have the SO with me.

2. Accessories. Ties, shoes, socks, tie clips, cuff links.... top hat, so on and so forth.

3. Be sure the suit emphasizes the bulge in your crotch. I've done it, and picked up many ladies as a result. Every girl's crazy bout a sharped dress man, right?

SK.

P.S. I was only kidding about number 3.

 

[Dev0]

1) A real suit is lined....not just the jacket, but the sleeves as well, along with the slacks. A nice suit has perspiration shields in the sleeves. On a REAL suit, the slacks are fully lined, but if they are lined to the knee that is good.

2) On a real suit the pattern "matches" between the sleeves and the body of the jacket. This is because it is cut from one piece of fabric versus scrapes, and because someone took time to line it up by eye versus it coming off a machine. What do I mean by "matches"? The lines in the pattern line up reasonably well from panel to panel. Speaking of which...

3) A real suit has fewer panels, again because it is made from a single piece of fabric with extensive human labor, versus by a machine where a single pattern is simply copied to several panels of fabric. On the BEST suits the jacket is one panel...no back seam or side seams, just sleeves seams, but that is more money than we are talking about here. That is TOTAL handmade. The point is, fewer is better.

4) Not necessarily 100% accurate, but on a real nice suit all the buttons, including the sleeve buttons, work. Meaning there is an actual button hole, versus a button just sewn on. This again shows attention to detail and that a PERSON took time to make that suit, versus it coming off a machine.

5) A real suit uses real material...wool for the shoulder pads and canvas, for example (a cheap suit will not have canvas at all).

Harry Rosen's website used to have other tips, but I couldn't find it. I did find these things though...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/30/pf/goodlife_fortune/index.htm

http://www.ehow.com/how_108131_buy-mans-suit.html

This is a level above what we are talking about here...Harry Rosen does this too, but this is for REAL ballers...lol. We are talking $4,000 and up...

http://www.englishcut.com/archives/000005.html

MLAM, you obviously know your stuff! I am traveling to Thailand-Philippines and was thinking of having 2 suites made there. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Scorpion King]

You awfully have a lot of time on your hands for being a married man

That is a loooooong story dear.

Besides, I'm trying to make it to 999. I have a special celebration in mind to commemorate my 1000th post.



SK.

 

[frankcastle]

First off thanks to MLAM and company for taking the time to write well thought out responses.

Thanks for also pointing out the need to pay attention to accessories.

I have Sears suits (2 of them already). But it's time for an upgrade.

The reason I've been thinking about a new suit is that my suits are old.

Also the other reason is vanity. Yeah I know it's shallow, but for the 4 or 5 formal work functions a year it's nice to feel like you actually dressed up.

Also, MLAM was right that it was more for work reasons and maybe the odd wedding rather than for clubs.

Personally I've never been one for clubs where guys would wear suits.

I think I'm going to have to go overall all this info and make a list of what the custom suit should have.

 

[frankcastle]

Oh and SK,

I'd need a moo moo to hide the bulge. Why else do you think I call myself the Punisher?

Actually the truth is that I'm over compensating and that sex with me is punishment.

BTW where did you get your top hat? And do I need a custom one if I want to fit a rabbit in there.

 

[m91us]

My 2 cents

Designer labels are for virgins. The premium you are paying, for designer labels, is for the marketing advertisements.

In Toronto, the tailor's labour cost for a jacket is $350 to $375. The tailor's labour cost for pants is $60 to $75. Therefore the labour cost for a suit is somewhere from $410 to $450.

What makes a good suit? Well, it's tailor to your body. For the pants, you get lining to the knees. The waistband has a shirt grip. The pocket are made of a special material that key or coins won't make a hole in it. The jacket also made to measure for your size. You get an underarm guard for the jacket. As mention earlier, the sleeves can be undone (quite frankly, I haven't seen any men wearing working sleeves undoing it to wash their hands in the washroom/restroom). The jacket has a buttonaire to insert a carnation flower if you want. Most important point of all, with taliored suits when you grow side ways, your suits can be adjusted. Most off the racks suits cannot be adjusted.

Now the material. Mohair is an excellent fabric because it is durable and doesn't wrinkle easily. The cost of mohair is $25 to $35 per yard in 60 inch width. You need 3 yards and 3/4 yards to make a suit for someone who is under 6 feet tall. 2.25 yards for a jacket and 1.5 yards for a dress pant. In the high end of material you can purchase Zegna which starts at $125 and up to $500 a yard. Cashmere will cost you $500 a yard.

All in all, a very decent suit made of mohair will cost $503.750 ($93.75 for 3.75 yards of mohair + $410 for the tailor's labour). A cashmere suit will cost you $2,285. What will vary in price is the material you use to make your suit.

I get a good laugh from time to time of all the insecure men not removing the designer label on the sleeve of their jacket.

 

[Scorpion King]

Lmfao!!!!

BTW where did you get your top hat? And do I need a custom one if I want to fit a rabbit in there.

All you need to do now is to practice a dance step or two!!!

(SK does a spin... Top hat tilited, cane in hand).

Good luck with the shopping spree. I'm sure you'll be just fine!!!

Cheers,

SK.

 

[PHNINE]

Hey Frank, all the info in this thread has been pretty good so far. MLAM knows his suits. Again I will just add that Harry Rosen, Holt Renfrew will do just fine for you. Spend anywhere from $900-$1500 for a decent suit. Make sure it is tailored to fit you as well. One more thing to remember, is different brands have different cuts for different body types. For example, I am a biger guy so I could never wear a Gucci suit. However, Hugo Boss has always made a larger cut for wider shoulders and what not. Armani can be sleak but also fit a larger gentleman. Ermenegildo Zegna suits are known to have the best fabric. Canali suits are known for their fit to many body types, they look they are made for you. Obviously I am leaving out a ton of brands, but this is just a few tips or things you should know. Anyway, please let us know what you end up getting. Good luck.

BTW, for the love of god don't get your pants cuffed please. I think it looks so tacky. Also please don't pleet your pants unless you have to.

 

[goodtime]

If you can change, sure...that's great. Not always time or space.
What if someone is meeting you at the airport? or you're catching a flight right from a customer meeting.
But most of the flights I take are less than 3 hours.

I know, I work with people who live out of suitcase. Guess that's why I don't get pay the big $$$. For biz travel, I do my own planning for some flexibility. This piss our Corp travel people off, but it's my time & comfort, not about to let other tell me how to travel. For tight schedule, I do biz causal.

Some high-end hotels are starting to provide clothing storage for their regulars, not special offering to just VIPs. Save from lug stuff on repeat visits.

 

[Berlin]

Are you saying you cannpt get top grade fabrics by having a suit made?...

Hardly.

To me, comparing quality " label " stuff to quality " talior" stuff is akin to comparing apples and oranges. And as I have already mentioned, it all depends on what you want or look for , if you know ,that is, to begin with.

And that goes with the fabric.

Pret a porter suits from most decent Labels , e.g. Zegna , have ( and not necessarily manufacture ) their own exclusive fabrics for their lines. Unless the tailor is well connected , such as the one used by the late Don Simpson, who had access to Versace's in season's fabric ( then again , it's Hollywood ), it's rather difficult for one to get hold of the same fabric.

While, a resourceful tailor , on the other hand, may have access to fabirc which pret a porter labels don't currently or won't use , e.g. limited run, or even premium fabric ,such as a certain Scottish cashmere or blended silk , for example, and at a price.

If you have the budget, you can have fine fabric whether you go the ready made or tailor made route, as always.

 

[frankcastle]

ph9,

thanks for the tip on cuffs. I hate them too and GQ magazine seems to agree. I doubt I'll be buying a suit prior to Xmas. But when I do I'll let you guys know what I decided on. But yes I think I will skip the name brand and focus on custom made with good material.

 

[goodtime]

BTW, for the love of god don't get your pants cuffed please. I think it looks so tacky. Also please don't pleet your pants unless you have to.

True on the big dudes but spiffy on the slimmer guys.

 

[goodtime]

Also the other reason is vanity. Yeah I know it's shallow, but for the 4 or 5 formal work functions a year it's nice to feel like you actually dressed up.

Also, MLAM was right that it was more for work reasons and maybe the odd wedding rather than for clubs.

If I get invited to any more weddings from the same group of friends, I would have to shop for suit(s), as it approaches # of suits I own. I'm no superman with 7 blue suits. Or was that tights?

 

[frankcastle]

The wrong suits can make you look old, out of date, ready for the club, or severe (e.g. funneral director, Amish, clergy).

In order to select something for work related formal dinners/awards ceremonies/meetings/interviews and weddings.

How would you guys go through the options below.

a) 2 vs 3 buttons
b) flat pants vs pleated
c) belt vs no belt
d) pin strips vs no pin stripes
e) single vs double breast
f) cuffs or no cuffs on the pants (leaning towards no cuffs thanks to ph9 and style guy from GQ magazine)
g) type of fabric? (what's a good versatile and affordable type of wool assuming the budget for the whole kit and kaboodle is say $1200 to $1500)
h) any options that I forgot?


I skipped brand names as people have mentioned that at the low end it might not be advisible due to quality and on the high end it's more a matter of body type. Plus more of a status thing than anything else.

I also skipped custom vs off the rack as it seems that for the same money custom is the way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Colour was also skipped because tan and taupe or powder blue is the way to go. Just kidding I'm thinking if I'm to pick just one colour navy/dark blue is the choice.

 

[frankcastle]

If I get invited to any more wedding from same group of friends, I too would become a shopper, as it approaches number of suits I own. I'm no superman with 7 blue suits. Or was that tights?

Wasn't it einstien who had the same outfit every day?

I gotta admit to stretch out one suit for a few weddings I went with differnt coloured shirts and ties. A lot of combos with a navy blue suit.