Interesting read re. Global warming

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Prove to me that its more and more, because it looks to me like less and less
Here's the thing, we dont have to prove anything. You guys are making all these wild claims on how the arctic is melting and we're all gonna bake, fry and die.

Therefore onus is on you to prove global warming is real, and so far there are way too many holes in your theories, and way too much doubt that the catastrophic events predicted are (or will be) coming true

And you're getting your information from .......?
Exxon funded 'research'?

Nice one
And you're getting your information from multi-million dollar funded research groups. Nice one.

Or perhaps you're getting your information from the multi-billion dollar carbon credit scamsters:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2009/12/11/eu-carbon-credit-trading-fraud.html
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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1. The IPCC claims temps have risen somewhat. But we dont know if thats a natural rise or if manmade CO2's are partially to blame. And I dont trust the IPCC anymore, they are proven liars to keep their multi-million dollar funding going
The basics of the science of global warming and the greenhouse effect was discovered in 1896. Did the Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius, who named it have multi-million dollar funding?
Read the history:
http://www.lenntech.com/greenhouse-effect/global-warming-history.htm
And tell me at what point the multi-million dollar funding kicked in, and how the science or conclusions were drastically changed because of it.
Otherwise your theory is just more bunk.

2. I dont know how much influence humans have on global temperatures. But neither do you and groggy, even though you both pretend to be know-it-alls. I'm leaning towards the fact that the whole global warming thing is highly overblown
Its very true that you don't, you're not that smart.
I'm smarter then you, just ask anyone, but moreso I recognize good scientific work when I see it. You I expect have beliefs that for some reason you want verified so are willing to take the word of mulit-million dollar Exxon employees.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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It's time for some more "character defamation."

"Fake" Nobel laureate Michael Mann's online biography is being rewritten after conservative pundit Mark Steyn exposed the false information in it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/331829/mikes-nobel-trick-mark-steyn

I'm not sure how Mann is going to correct the false information that was in the court document he filed against Steyn.

Mann's high-profile law firm can't be too pleased with him at this point.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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This never gets old, groggy ;)

Its "I'm smarter thAn you". Not "I'm smarter then you".
Oh, you got me.
I had a typo therefore I have to bow down and admit that you are smarter then me*
* sarcasm

Phil, what's your opinion on the swiftboat scandal?
Do you think it a triumph of scientific reasoning or blatant political fabrication?

And yes, this is relevant.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Is "propaganda" a field?

Just kidding. Your dispute is with Groggy, not with me. He's the one who started measuring everyone by their PhDs.
Did you see me back him? Yet when someone doesn't publish, to allow other to examine his work, and all they do is rant, then it makes you wonder.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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In a post called "Embellishing Science," Professor Roger Pielke Jr. explains why the embellishments on Michael Mann's resume are an illustration of the embellishments being made by global-warming alarmists in general.

Mann's embellishment has placed him in a situation where his claims are being countered by the Nobel organization itself. Mann's claim, rather than boosting his credibility actually risks having the opposite effect, a situation that was entirely avoidable and one which Mann brought upon himself by making the embellishment in the first place. The embellishment is only an issue because Mann has invoked it as a source of authority is a legal dispute. It would seem common sense that having such an embellishment within a complaint predicated on alleged misrepresentations may not sit well with a judge or jury.

This situation provides a nice illustration of what is wrong with a some aspects of climate science today -- a few scientists motivated by a desire to influence political debates over climate change have embellished claims, such as related to disasters, which then risks credibility when the claims are exposed as embellishments. To make matters worse, these politically motivated scientists have fallen in with fellow travelers in the media, activist organizations and in the blogosphere who are willing not only to look past such embellishments, but to amplify them and attack those who push back. These dynamics are reinforcing and have led small but vocal parts of the climate scientific community to deviate significantly from widely-held norms of scientific practice.
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.ca/2012/10/what-is-wrong-with-embellishing-science.html?m=1
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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In a post called "Embellishing Science," Professor Roger Pielke Jr. explains why the embellishments on Michael Mann's resume are an illustration of the embellishments being made by global-warming alarmists in general.



http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.ca/2012/10/what-is-wrong-with-embellishing-science.html?m=1
Mann never claimed any more then the certificate that the IPCC gave him acknowledged.
Check his facebook page.

Morano has issued the following lie about me through his "Climate Depot" site: "He [Mann] did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to IPCC (& to Al Gore) & made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma".

Both statements are lies (i.e. not only are they untrue, but Morano must certainly--or should--know that they are untrue). Morano must know that (1) the certificate on display at my facebook page (and is available here for anyone to see) is the precise certificate that was sent to me and *ALL IPCC LEAD AUTHORS* signed by IPCC Chair Rajendra Pachauri, formally acknowledging my "contributing to the award of the Nobel Peace Prize for 2007 to the IPCC". It is an actionable lie to claim either that (1) I did not receive such a certificate or (2) that I in any way modified the text in any conceivable way.
These are ugly lies from someone who is *known* for ugly lies.

The only thing I did at all was to put the certificate in a frame, and display it in my office where anyone can see it. This certificate is identical to every other certificate sent to every other IPCC lead author by the IPCC (w/ the exception of the name specified, which is different of course for each individual).

We now know that Marc Morano and his ilk will lie about literally anything to smear climate scientists and climate science, just as he lied about Senator John Kerry when he helped manufacture the "Swift Boat" smear back in 2004.

I thought I had seen the lowest of the low from professional climate change deniers, but this is indeed a new low for them.
http://www.facebook.com/MichaelMannScientist?ref=stream


Mike Morano was first a paid political hack, taking down John Kerry with the swiftboat scandal until he got noticed by Exxon and hired on by them through their bogus foundation to dig up dirt on those who might curtail their profits.

My question for you is are you really stupid, and unable to understand the basics of the science (which I am pretty sure you are based on the fact that you can't answer even the most basic question) or are you really stupid and under the pay of Exxon or some other fossil fuel business?

Which is it?
 

Moraff

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I've seen several statements on how scientists downplaying climate change are funded by big business. How many change proponents are funded by groups whose agendas would be bolstered by finding proof of man-made causation?
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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Mann never claimed any more then the certificate that the IPCC gave him acknowledged.
Check his facebook page.
Bullfeathers.

In the document he filed with the Superior Court, he claimed to have been "awarded" the Nobel Peace Prize. He also claims he was a "recipient" of the Nobel Peace Prize.

In paragraph 2, for example, it says: "As a result of this research, Dr. Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize."

The meaning is clear, and there is no mention of an IPCC certificate. In paragraph 5, it describes him as "a Nobel Prize recipient." In paragraph 17, it says he "shared the Nobel Peace Prize with the other IPCC authors...". That one does mention the IPCC but it says he shared the "Nobel Peace Prize," not an IPCC certificate.

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/michael-mann-complaint.pdf

Mann's statements have been unequivocally rejected by the Nobel committee, which says Mann was "never" awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

As for Mann's facebook page, he's now trying to deflect attention by posting comments about how others have also misrepresented the Nobel Peace Prize. Nonetheless, his facebook page on the lawsuit still wrongly states:

In 2007, along with Vice President Al Gore and his colleagues of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for having "created an ever-broader informed consensus about the connection between human activities and global warming."
https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMannScientist/posts/437351706321037

It is a confirmed fact that Michael Mann isn't credible when it comes to reporting information accurately. That proves that his hockey-stick graph isn't credible.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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Via Steyn's website, I found a blog post that is so damn good that it needs to be repeated here. While I normally just like to cut and paste highlights, this one deserves to be read in its entirety.

It's from a site called I Want a New Left. I hope Groggy and others will read it.

The Problem with Michael Mann, and the Whole Environmental Movement

In the suit against his detractors, Michael Mann claims to have won the Nobel Peace Prize. He has not in fact won the Nobel Peace Prize, but has merely been associated with an organization that won it. That he didn’t say it this way, but instead said that he himself had won it, tells us a couple things about him.

First, it shows that he’s not very good with details. One would expect scientists, especially scientists who want to have an enormous effect on the lives of everyone on earth, to be rather good with details, but apparently Mann is not.

Second, the way that he is not very good with details is that he exaggerates things. This in fact has been the big problem with the environmental movement right from the start. Things have been wildly exaggerated, but we are nevertheless supposed to believe them because “it’s science.” My wife likes to tell of the camp she went to in the early 1970s when she was about eight years old. One of the counselors said that the air was so polluted that in a few years people would probably have to live underground. We all know that that prediction didn’t come true. Naturally, it’s unfair to talk about predictions made by some kid who was probably not yet out of his teens, but are the older ones any better? George Will had a column on it a few weeks back (here) in which he mentioned various predictions of doom by environmentalists that didn’t happen.

It’s sad that society keeps listening to these people, but unfortunately too many intelligent people, especially in the legacy media, have been taken in by it all. Will in his column mentioned the book The Limits to Growth that appeared about the same time my wife was at that camp. None of these people ever thought much about the limits in the other direction, namely shrinkage. We are seeing the limits to shrinkage in Greece, where as Mark Steyn has endlessly pointed out, there are 100 grandparents for 42 grandchildren. You just can’t have people retiring at 50 when there are so few younger people around to support them. Yet, progressives still whine about the limits to growth.

Anyway, to get back to Mann, his insisting that he won the Nobel Peace Prize should be a signal to any sensible person that if he exaggerates about something in a public forum where his claim was easily seen through almost at once, he is likely to have a habit of exaggerating in other areas as well, especially in obscure scientific journals where it may be more difficult to determine if he’s exaggerating or not. Accordingly, his science should not be trusted. Since most of us aren’t scientists, we rely on trust, but with people like Michael Mann exaggerating things, we just can’t trust them.

And that should be the end of the story. It won’t be, but it should be.
http://iwantanewleft.typepad.com/i-...ann-and-the-whole-environmental-movement.html

As the blogger says about Mann, "his science should not be trusted."

Exactly.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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Bullfeathers.

In the document he filed with the Superior Court, he claimed to have been "awarded" the Nobel Peace Prize. He also claims he was a "recipient" of the Nobel Peace Prize.

In paragraph 2, for example, it says: "As a result of this research, Dr. Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize."

The meaning is clear, and there is no mention of an IPCC certificate. In paragraph 5, it describes him as "a Nobel Prize recipient." In paragraph 17, it says he "shared the Nobel Peace Prize with the other IPCC authors...". That one does mention the IPCC but it says he shared the "Nobel Peace Prize," not an IPCC certificate.

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/michael-mann-complaint.pdf

Mann's statements have been unequivocally rejected by the Nobel committee, which says Mann was "never" awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

As for Mann's facebook page, he's now trying to deflect attention by posting comments about how others have also misrepresented the Nobel Peace Prize. Nonetheless, his facebook page on the lawsuit still wrongly states:



https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMannScientist/posts/437351706321037

It is a confirmed fact that Michael Mann isn't credible when it comes to reporting information accurately. That proves that his hockey-stick graph isn't credible.
I see, so because you've been following a blatant lie you now believe that the science is incorrect.
Let's wait until this week, when the Nobel committee can make a public statement, as I'm sure they will.
You can retract this crap then.

Until then, Mann has been very clear on directly referencing the certificate given him by the IPCC, using the same language.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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I've seen several statements on how scientists downplaying climate change are funded by big business
The problem is both sides are in it for the money.

Thats why its so difficult to get an objective viewpoint on the whole thing
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Via Steyn's website, I found a blog post that is so damn good that it needs to be repeated here. While I normally just like to cut and paste highlights, this one deserves to be read in its entirety.

It's from a site called I Want a New Left. I hope Groggy and others will read it.



http://iwantanewleft.typepad.com/i-...ann-and-the-whole-environmental-movement.html

As the blogger says about Mann, "his science should not be trusted."

Exactly.
How many Stanley cups did Gretzky win? Oooop, 'he' didn't, really? It really a small thing that most see as nitpicking. So we now wipe out this man's whole library of work, right? Just the same claim that all the IPCC work should be thrown our just because 250+ scientist members were found fudging their work.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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The problem is both sides are in it for the money.

Thats why its so difficult to get an objective viewpoint on the whole thing
Classic mugwump, after ~300 post, wtf.

The evidence is clearly leading in one direction, some just refuse to see this. i suppose you now are going to say that aren't totally against the AGW statement, just that it's not proven.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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How many Stanley cups did Gretzky win? Oooop, 'he' didn't, really? It really a small thing that most see as nitpicking. So we now wipe out this man's whole library of work, right? Just the same claim that all the IPCC work should be thrown our just because 250+ scientist members were found fudging their work.
The Nobel committee has unequivocally rejected your attempts at semantics.

Here is what Geir Lundestad, Director, Professor, of The Norwegian Nobel Institute said in an e-mail response about Mann's claims:

1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma.

3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.
http://www.examiner.com/article/pro...n-nobel-prize-nobel-committee-says-he-has-not

You may think it's no big deal when an academic publicizes false credentials, but serious academics hold a different view.

Does the fact that Mann has no credibility mean that his hockey-stick graph also has no credibility? Yup, that's exactly what it means.

Furthermore, I suspect the judge overseeing Mann's lawsuit won't see this as "nitpicking."
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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The Nobel committee has unequivocally rejected your attempts at semantics.

Here is what Geir Lundestad, Director, Professor, of The Norwegian Nobel Institute said in an e-mail response about Mann's claims:



http://www.examiner.com/article/pro...n-nobel-prize-nobel-committee-says-he-has-not

You may think it's no big deal when an academic publicizes false credentials, but serious academics hold a different view.

Does the fact that Mann has no credibility mean that his hockey-stick graph also has no credibility? Yup, that's exactly what it means.

Furthermore, I suspect the judge overseeing Mann's lawsuit won't see this as "nitpicking."
Then we sit and wait.
 
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