Jacques Martin would be a great fit as coach of the Leafs. The media would beat the holy hell out of that idea, though.
Is Pat Quinn a goner?
- Thread starter Lumix
- Start date
Yup.luv2fress said:
The Leafs never met the level TB has established, in the regular season or playoffs. Or San Jose, for that matter.
Hey, I think the coach may very well get blamed - they almost always are, after long enough. I'm not convinced, though, that he *will* get fired.
Whether Quinn is good enough to coach the Leafs is debatable. IMHO, the biggest damage this guy has done to our city is when he was the team’s GM, when he drafted numerous over-paid, under-skilled, past-talents who command huge price tags not because of their current abilities but historical stats and credentials.
We cannot fault the Leafs for lack of effort. In fact, with rare exceptions, the team usually plays hard, with great passion and heart. However, the team’s lack of skills is evident - during the regular seasons and particularly in playoffs. For a team that has a payroll of close to US$70 million – we can’t fault the pension fund owner for not spending – Quinn has put together a team of celebrities who have glorified histories and big hears but not much else to show for. Worse still, he has done so at the expense of trading away Leafs’ top picks and prospects. I remember in the earlier years of Quinn’s GM tenure, he criticised the previous regimes for poor scouting and player developments, hence a poor farm team to draw on. Six (five?) years later, the situation has gotten worse than better. This alone justifies his firing, if I were the team’s decision maker.
The Leafs is in a dilemma. Its problem is not coaching but the current expensive, aged, roster, which might guarantee the team a playoff spot, but will never – I repeat, will never - bring the Stanley to Toronto. It is time to rebuild, from the top down. Ken Dryden should go (he belongs to the academic world, and might get my vote if he decides to run for MP) and Quinn can stay (only because of his $1.7 million contract for an extra year).
I believe the Leaf executives have got it all wrong. In management, past achievements and winning records count. In players, current stats and abilities are what they should pay for. Instead, the Leafs has a management team that has no Stanley Cup achievement and a bunch of over-the-hill players who have numerous rings.
It is a shame that Quinn was handed bagfuls of cash and got us, fans, a team consisted of hard workers, but nothing else.
We cannot fault the Leafs for lack of effort. In fact, with rare exceptions, the team usually plays hard, with great passion and heart. However, the team’s lack of skills is evident - during the regular seasons and particularly in playoffs. For a team that has a payroll of close to US$70 million – we can’t fault the pension fund owner for not spending – Quinn has put together a team of celebrities who have glorified histories and big hears but not much else to show for. Worse still, he has done so at the expense of trading away Leafs’ top picks and prospects. I remember in the earlier years of Quinn’s GM tenure, he criticised the previous regimes for poor scouting and player developments, hence a poor farm team to draw on. Six (five?) years later, the situation has gotten worse than better. This alone justifies his firing, if I were the team’s decision maker.
The Leafs is in a dilemma. Its problem is not coaching but the current expensive, aged, roster, which might guarantee the team a playoff spot, but will never – I repeat, will never - bring the Stanley to Toronto. It is time to rebuild, from the top down. Ken Dryden should go (he belongs to the academic world, and might get my vote if he decides to run for MP) and Quinn can stay (only because of his $1.7 million contract for an extra year).
I believe the Leaf executives have got it all wrong. In management, past achievements and winning records count. In players, current stats and abilities are what they should pay for. Instead, the Leafs has a management team that has no Stanley Cup achievement and a bunch of over-the-hill players who have numerous rings.
It is a shame that Quinn was handed bagfuls of cash and got us, fans, a team consisted of hard workers, but nothing else.
hear hear!
But as fans we can be blamed as well.
Why do we continously support a team that hasn't even been to the Stanley Cup finals since the 67 expansion? In a civilized society the fans should just stop going. It's one thing to be supportive of your team - it's another to be a sucker.
What possible incentive do the Leafs owners have when....they sell out every game, they sell all their merchandise (jerseys, flags' banners, etc) and the citys' population hold these guys like Gods.
Maybe, just ,maybe if we; as fans, show our heart ache by NOT going to the games, by NOT buyibg the jerseys, it will force the management to put out a better product.
I believe if the status quo remains - the Leafs will never win the Stanley Cup (or at least not in my lifetime).
But as fans we can be blamed as well.
Why do we continously support a team that hasn't even been to the Stanley Cup finals since the 67 expansion? In a civilized society the fans should just stop going. It's one thing to be supportive of your team - it's another to be a sucker.
What possible incentive do the Leafs owners have when....they sell out every game, they sell all their merchandise (jerseys, flags' banners, etc) and the citys' population hold these guys like Gods.
Maybe, just ,maybe if we; as fans, show our heart ache by NOT going to the games, by NOT buyibg the jerseys, it will force the management to put out a better product.
I believe if the status quo remains - the Leafs will never win the Stanley Cup (or at least not in my lifetime).
Quinn
When the GM talks to ownership the line is either we had the players but they weren't properly coached or, we did not have the players. Guess which is used most often by the GM? Having been both coach and GM for a number of years, Quinn is fully responsible for the current state. High payroll, limited prospects, no 1st round pick and nothing to show for it.
Still, I believe Quinn will return for the final year of his contract if there is hockey next season. Part of the decision will because of local/internal matters. Quinn is still popular with the players and the media.
Ownership will be looking for some stability during a really volitaille period and one a time where the team is already in transition.
The other reason will be because the alternatives. Quenneville would be a good fit. He and JFJ know each other from St. Louis but has was pointed the story is no veteran accountability there.
Now does that sound familair?
Martin? He is a good developmental coach. A great fit in FLa or someplace where the team is building with youth and few expectations. He has had as good or better talent than most for years, but could not win at playoff time because he is strangled by the 'system'. He isn't coming to TO.
Mike Keenan has pissed more people than most thought possible and Ted Nolan has been blackballed.
When the GM talks to ownership the line is either we had the players but they weren't properly coached or, we did not have the players. Guess which is used most often by the GM? Having been both coach and GM for a number of years, Quinn is fully responsible for the current state. High payroll, limited prospects, no 1st round pick and nothing to show for it.
Still, I believe Quinn will return for the final year of his contract if there is hockey next season. Part of the decision will because of local/internal matters. Quinn is still popular with the players and the media.
Ownership will be looking for some stability during a really volitaille period and one a time where the team is already in transition.
The other reason will be because the alternatives. Quenneville would be a good fit. He and JFJ know each other from St. Louis but has was pointed the story is no veteran accountability there.
Now does that sound familair?
Martin? He is a good developmental coach. A great fit in FLa or someplace where the team is building with youth and few expectations. He has had as good or better talent than most for years, but could not win at playoff time because he is strangled by the 'system'. He isn't coming to TO.
Mike Keenan has pissed more people than most thought possible and Ted Nolan has been blackballed.
Quinn IS returning for his final year on his contract. Fergie just announced it. Well, if there is going to be hockey this fall, it'll be interesting.
TTFN
TTFN
Goober:
"when the Leafs lose tonight, within a week the following statement will be false:
"Toronto Coach Pat Quinn""
Nice try. You're lucky you didn't bet me.
As for all this wailing and gnashing of teeth in Leaf land, nothing new - all the cries of "let's stop supporting the team" and "fire the coach" and "replace Sundin". ... LOL
Nonsense.
Do changes need to be made? Of course. You need to both stay competitive and be more competitive. This isn't possible in too many hockey cities - most places you've got to pick your shots. The Leafs don't have to rebuild - they have enough money to retool every year.
Do things need to be blown up? No.
It's the height of hindsight lunacy to look back and say the Leafs never had a chance. Hey, I've argued in here with people who said they should have been the favourites! If they *did* give themselves a chance (of course they did), why all the wailing and moaning?!
I'm glad the team I root for is among the more competitive in the league, usually, and that we never have to suffer through long rebuilding processes (some longer than others, some that don't work out very well at all). I'm also glad that we don't blow money like tap water a la the Rangers. For me, neither extreme is very palatable. To say that the middle ground can't yield a Cup is nonsense.
"when the Leafs lose tonight, within a week the following statement will be false:
"Toronto Coach Pat Quinn""
Nice try. You're lucky you didn't bet me.
As for all this wailing and gnashing of teeth in Leaf land, nothing new - all the cries of "let's stop supporting the team" and "fire the coach" and "replace Sundin". ... LOL
Nonsense.
Do changes need to be made? Of course. You need to both stay competitive and be more competitive. This isn't possible in too many hockey cities - most places you've got to pick your shots. The Leafs don't have to rebuild - they have enough money to retool every year.
Do things need to be blown up? No.
It's the height of hindsight lunacy to look back and say the Leafs never had a chance. Hey, I've argued in here with people who said they should have been the favourites! If they *did* give themselves a chance (of course they did), why all the wailing and moaning?!
I'm glad the team I root for is among the more competitive in the league, usually, and that we never have to suffer through long rebuilding processes (some longer than others, some that don't work out very well at all). I'm also glad that we don't blow money like tap water a la the Rangers. For me, neither extreme is very palatable. To say that the middle ground can't yield a Cup is nonsense.
This is the best reason I've yet heard for getting rid of Quinn, or any coach for that matter. Sometimes, it's just time for a change - a fresh set of coaching strategies and a fresh way of interating with the players.scubadoo said:
That having been said, they need to go after someone as far from Quinn's style as possible.
After next year, of course.
Looks like we will have to deal with Quinn for another season. Unless the Leafs get off to a real bad start lol. Quinn has an impressive coaching record but its been 37 years and no Stanley Cup dammit lol. Well I think Gretzky made a good decision selecting him as head coach for the Olympics a couple years ago and he had a couple good coaches in Martin and Hitcock as his assistants.
He's been to the finals twice, which is more than you can say for a lot of the other coaches out there. It sounds like there will be a few more assistant coaches in Toronto next year to help out with the development of the younger players. I would expect that before the season gets too far along, Ferguson will have given Quinn an extension for a couple of more years.
However, if there is an extended lock-out, it will be Pat's last year in Toronto.
However, if there is an extended lock-out, it will be Pat's last year in Toronto.
