Islam is a Religion of Peace

[basketcase]

One important thing to bear in mind. The Muslims ruled the "Holy "Land" for centuries and they were the guardians of all the Holy religious sites in and around what is now known as Israel, Gaza, The West Bank, as well as neighbouring countries such as Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and places afar afield as Mesopotamia and Persia. Remember that these Holy places of worship whether they were Jewish, Christian or Islam were preserved and not torn down. The Jews and Christians were allowed to pray and visit those sites all through the early and middle ages. Although a number of Jews and Christians left the Middle East for richer pastures, be it in Western or Eastern Europe, those who stayed on were free to do so and not discriminated to the extent as the Jews who immigrated to places as far as Russia, Germany, Spain and The United Kingdom. The Moors traded with the Christians in places like Spain, and even embraced Christians and Jews in their palaces in positions such as financial advisers, and scholars. Remember that when the Moors were driven out of Spain, many of their mosques were converted into churches. It is only in recent years that the extremist Islamic clerics declared a Holy Religious Jihad that was unheard of previously except during real battles such as the ones between the Crusaders and The Moors.

Yes, the Muslim world was for a long time well advanced of the West. It is worth noting though that there were significant periods where rights of religious minorities were well respected and times when they weren't. Even when religious minorities were doing reasonably well though they were often treated as a lower class of citizen with diminished rights. It also seems that you are considering the Islamic world to be a coherent and unified group which is far far from the truth. There have always been groups of the live and let live variety and groups of the kill the infidel variety.

Coincidentally, this call by the extremist clerics only seem to happen when the Rest of the Western World decided to endorse Israel's rights, and sadly not those of the Palestinians. The rest is History.

In case you missed it, in 1948 the UN created two states, one became Israel and the other became part of Jordan/Egypt.

If you want a more in depth analysis on the spread of modern extremist Islam, the Saudi region being the home of Islam's holiest sites has for a long time been a hotbed of religious zealotry. Around the end of the 19th century, they discovered this thing called oil which turned the petty clan chiefs into multimillionaires allowing them to spread their particular view on Islam.

 

[LickRus]

God told Abraham to kill his only son. Does that mean God has commanded every father to sacrifice his son as a burnt offering, or was that a command to one person at one specific time and the context makes it a story being told and not a commandment we are all supposed to follow?t.

You can quote Abraham all day long the facts are that Islamists are killing each other and trying to kill those not like them, if you can't see this you're stupid or in denial. We see this everyday.

In Germany Islamists attacked 300 Yazidi with tools and knifes that were legally protesting.

The Iraq conflict spilled onto the streets of Herford in North Rhine-Westphalia on Wednesday evening as hundreds of members of the Yazidi faith clashed with supporters of Islamist terrorist group ISIS.

Around 300 Yazidi took to the streets in the early evening. They were demonstrating against the attacks on members of their faith in Syria and Iraq and a religiously-motivated attack against their community earlier that day, Herford police reported.

The police decided to intervene after a large group of hooded people started attacking passers-by in the town centre, with at least one person injured. The police used pepper spray to control the mob, confiscating tools and one firearm, and took the details of 86 people involved.

Police reinforcements were called in from all over eastern Westphalia, including officers from Bochum and Dortmund, to keep the different groups apart. The police deployment lasted throughout the night and involved well over 100 officers, a Herford police spokesman told The Local.

http://www.thelocal.de/20140807/echoes-of-iraq-conflict-on-streets-of-herford-yezidi-islamic-state

 

[explorerzip]

Christians kill people too. So do Jews and atheists, and every other religion. What's your point?

Yeah, exactly. All groups: Christians, Jews, atheists, etc have all killed others in the name of religion.

 

[explorerzip]

Like every religion, it doesn't actually say anything specifically until you interpret it. You say that the violent quotes are the ones taken out of context, some say they peaceful quotes are the ones taken out of context. Radical Islam isn't pulling "the word of Allah" out of thin air, it's interpreting and applying context. Just because some apply it peacefully doesn't make the whole of Islam a religion of peace. Likewise, just because some apply it violently doesn't make the whole of Islam a religion of violence. Christianity is subject to the same shortcomings. Lots of Christians don't act very Christian and yet manage to defend their conduct on the basis of the Bible.

Excellent point. One would think that people are smart enough to know that the word of God, Allah, etc. has gone through many humans (with all their prejudices and biases) before being put to paper.

 

[benstt]

In case you missed it, in 1948 the UN created two states, one became Israel and the other became part of Jordan/Egypt.

I think that is a drastic oversimplification. The UN partition plan was rejected, and war broke out. The resulting territorial division of Palestine was the result of war more than a UN creation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War

As a result of the war the State of Israel retained the area that the UN General Assembly Resolution 181 had recommended for the proposed Jewish state and also took control of almost 60% of the area allocated for the proposed Arab state,[16] including the Jaffa, Lydda and Ramle area, Galilee, some parts of the Negev, a wide strip along the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem road, West Jerusalem, and some territories in the West Bank. Transjordan took control of the remainder of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Egyptian military took control of the Gaza Strip. No Arab Palestinian state was created. In 1949 all the belligerents - except the Iraqis and the Palestinians - signed the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

 

[Aardvark154]

Christians kill people too. So do Jews and atheists, and every other religion. What's your point?

Yeah, exactly. All groups: Christians, Jews, atheists, etc have all killed others in the name of religion.

Recently?

During the past few centuries it seems to be overwhelmingly fundamentalist Muslims who are engaged in systematic mass murder in the name of God.

 

[wilbur]

The bible has some shit in it but nothing like the Koran and the problem is millions of Muslims take the Koran literally and act literally such as: Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191) I don't know how this can be taken out of context. It means what it means.

Three year old : non believers will be butchered. http://www.channel4.com/news/islamic-state-iraq-syria-children-guns-video

Millions of Americans who are Christian fundamentalists and Born Again Christians unconditionally support Israel because of Bible interpretations to the absurd, as in the case of the Revelation in the Bible.

This is the basis for Harper's foreign policy. He believes in the Rapture: Whereas at a certain point in time, the Rapture will take place where true believers will be fetched whole body and taken to heaven, the only time in human history where it will be possible to go to heaven without dying first. However, certain prophecies in Revelation need to be fulfilled first: the Anti-Christ, the Tribulations, the Armageddon etc. and at a certain point, Israel will burn, but not before half of Israelis convert themselves to Christianity. So in the meantime, if Israel ceases to exists as a country, the prophecy of the Rapture will never take place, and Stevie won't be able to go to heaven a live person. Hence, our Dear Leader's unwavering and unconditional support of Israel, and their policies, so as to guarantee that Israel stays put on its way to prophecized destruction. (the Israelis are thankful for this unconditional support, but they will only go so far with Christian fundamentalist beliefs).

There are wackos in every society. We have Harper's kind, and the Muslims have their own. Interestingly enough, our other main ally in the Middle East is the Kingdom of Saud-Arabia. A one-family-rule dictatorship who's state religion is Wahabiism and Salafism, highly fundamentalist and puritanical version of Islam, that also makes discrimination against women part of this religion. Most muslims, for various reasons, hate Saudis. The same Saudi government who funded and equipped the ISIL terrorists now operating and taking over large parts of Iraq, with the Americans looking the other way.

Religion bashing is just a pretext to get the Sheeple riled up, in order for get them to fight and die for the huge profits of a few.

 

[wilbur]

Recently?

During the past few centuries it seems to be overwhelmingly fundamentalist Muslims who are engaged in systematic mass murder in the name of God.

It was European Christians who were responsible for the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust; then they blame the Arabs in the Middle-East for it. But I guess that doesn't count for you, does it? And I'm not even going to mention the Pogroms in Eastern Europe before that, that caused mass Jewish emigration to Western Europe and North America.

So when is it that Muslims engaged in systematic mass murder in the name of God?

 

[asterwald]

Worst religion ever. At least Europe had some progressive thought movements in Christianity's dark ages. Islam never has or will have any. There is no countering or going against gods word in Islam.

I just wish the non Arabs wake up and see the Imperialist Arab religion for what it is. Leave it for the Arabs.

 

[Aardvark154]

It was European Christians who were responsible for the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust.

Really? The members of the Nazi regime responsible for the final solution claimed to be devout Christians?

So when is it that Muslims engaged in systematic mass murder in the name of God?

Have you been reading, listening to or viewing any news about Iraq and Syria over the past week?

Since apparently you haven't here are two articles: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Yazidis-attacks-Islamic-State-jihadists.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-poses-decapitated-head-Syrian-solider.html

 

[explorerzip]

Recently?

During the past few centuries it seems to be overwhelmingly fundamentalist Muslims who are engaged in systematic mass murder in the name of God.

My point was that Christians, Jews, etc can't just sit back and claim innocence either. Maybe they didn't exactly kill in the name of God, but the Americans certainly committed multiple mass murders in Japan.

 

[explorerzip]

Worst religion ever. At least Europe had some progressive thought movements in Christianity's dark ages. Islam never has or will have any. There is no countering or going against gods word in Islam.

I just wish the non Arabs wake up and see the Imperialist Arab religion for what it is. Leave it for the Arabs.

So all people practising that religion will never ever accept new ideas? That's a pretty grim view of humanity.

 

[wilbur]

Really? The members of the Nazi regime responsible for the final solution claimed to be devout Christians?

Have you been reading, listening to or viewing any news about Iraq and Syria over the past week?

Since apparently you haven't here are two articles: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Yazidis-attacks-Islamic-State-jihadists.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-poses-decapitated-head-Syrian-solider.html

The Nazi's and their followers were still Christians. The same as your allegations that Muslims (most of them) are all cutthroats.

Not withstanding the recent events in Iraq and Syria, you did say 'During the past few centuries...' and I am waiting for examples from you of mass slaughters by Muslims during the last centuries. Please do not conflate recent events with a revisionist version of history.

You are laying at the feet of Muslims at large the responsibility of mass killings done by a relatively few fanatics, thereby painting the overwhelming numbers of ordinary Muslims with the same brush.

You should also be aware that the arming of these terrorists in Iraq is partly the responsibility of the US. They funded and armed 'moderate' rebels in Syria to overthrow Assad. Much of the weapons destined to the 'moderate' rebels were either stolen by or sold to the Al-Qaida terrorists. The US didn't care it was Al-Qaida fighting against Assad, since they were pursuing a goal they shared (the violent overthrow of Assad), but for different reasons. The US because Assad was not pliant to US foreign policy and is an ally of Iran (Israel's self declared arch enemy), and Al-Qaida because Assad is a secular and a Muslim apostate protecting minorities in Syria (including Christians). The end of Assad in Syria is the end of 2,000 year old Christianity in Syria. As for Saudi Arabia (a wacko Muslim fundamentalist state and our closest allies!), they have armed directly Al-Qaida in Syria because they want to wipe out Shiites from the map. Now there is blowback against 10 years of US effort in Iraq, and all of a sudden, Obama is concerned about the fate of Christians in the Middle East, despite the Israelis chasing away over 60 years, most Palestinian Christians, Dubya's invasion of Iraq and its aftermath chasing 700,000 Iraqi Christians from their homes, and now threatening to wipe out 2 Million Syrian Christians from their 2,000 year homeland in Syria.

You have to look a lot closer to home if you want to point fingers at the persecution of Christians and Jews..

 

[eznutz]

 

[canada-man]

Really? The members of the Nazi regime responsible for the final solution claimed to be devout Christians?

Have you been reading, listening to or viewing any news about Iraq and Syria over the past week?

Since apparently you haven't here are two articles: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Yazidis-attacks-Islamic-State-jihadists.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-poses-decapitated-head-Syrian-solider.html

another example of counter jihad hypocrisy ignore the christian heritage of european anti-semitism which is based on christianity ignore the fact that Nazi Germany is a christian based state that signed a concordat agreement with the vatican(along with Ustashe Croatia, Fascist Italy, and Slovakia under Josef Tiso,

http://www.historytoday.com/robert-carr/nazism-and-christian-heritage


fascist regimes and right wing dictarships including General Pinochet are all christian based

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/paul_23_4.html


“The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

 

[MattRoxx]

France also fighting the sarcastically term Religion of Peace.

France Bombs 20 Islamist Siteshttp://www.cbsnews.com/news/france-bombs-20-sites-in-northern-mali/

GOSSI, MALI French troops launched airstrikes on Islamic militant training camps and arms depots around Kidal and Tessalit in Mali's far north, defense officials said Sunday, as the first supply convoy of food, fuel and parts to eastern Mali headed across the country.

French planes pounded extremist training camps as well as arms and fuel depots from Saturday night into the early hours of Sunday, according to French army Col. Thierry Burkhard.

"It was an important aerial operation to the north of the town Kidal and in the Tessalit region where we targeted logistical depots and Islamist training camps ... some 20 sites," said Burkhard. He said there were 30 planes used in the operation including Mirage and Rafale jets.

The French intervened in Mali on Jan. 11 to stem the advance of the al Qaeda-linked fighters. Though they succeeded in ousting the rebels from the three main northern cities they occupied, including the fabled city of Timbuktu, Sunday's aerial operation highlights that the French still see militants in the extreme northern area near the border with Algeria a threat.

"Here, there's still various Islamist groups like the MUJAO, and Ansar Dine," he said. The Islamic extremist group the Movement for Unity and Oneness of the Jihad, is known as MUJAO.

As the French bombarded in the north, they also neared the eastern town of Gao with its first supply convoy since the conflict began.

Crowds along the roads heading northeast from Sevare toward Gao on Sunday thronged the roads screaming "Vive la France!" and old men in long flowing robes on bicycles held onto the handlebars with one hand to wave as soldiers passed by. Even camels grazing in acacia trees perked up as the 62-vehicle convoy spanning 3 miles lumbered by. Others passed by in carts, sometimes moving faster than the French.

 

[bishop]

In Bosnia is was christians trying to wipe out the muslims. During WW2 the vatican was friendly with hitler, they even made Hitler's birthday a holy day.

Islamic extremism seemed to become a force in the mid to late 70s and then exponentially grew out of control from there. It was probably due to the Afghanistan war with russia, after that war was over, they still had money, weapons, and training provided by the US so they all went looking for the next holy war.

Islam would have been more modernized and been mostly castrated like christianity is today had it not been for oil. Arab nations without oil were dirt poor and provided willing martyrs, arab nations that had oil were so rich that they did not have to contend with earning a living so they had the time and money to sponsor holy wars. There are countries in the middle, like Iran, they have a large piece of land and they have a decent amount of oil, not enough oil to make everyone princes but enough that they will never be dirt poor, Iran was the first arab country to have democratic elections, but it was easier to extort oil from a strong man than it is from a democracy so the CIA overthrew the elected leader and installed the shah of Iran, after the shah then everything turned to sh*t.

 

[wilbur]

Since apparently you haven't here are two articles: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Yazidis-attacks-Islamic-State-jihadists.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-poses-decapitated-head-Syrian-solider.html

The Daily Mail is owned by the discredited Rupert Murdoch. He's been in cohoots with heads of governments in the UK, and is a propagator of their stupid lies for the masses through his trashy tabloids. His News of the World was recently closed because of it's involvement in the cell-phone tapping scandal. He claimed he knew nothing, but his style has always been direct intervention with his editors.

He owns Fox and the Wall Street Journal. Fox being the neo-con propaganda machine for the gullible masses.

I wouldn't even wipe may ass with his newspapers. As with the O'Reilliy'ss and the Hannities out there, it's a mix of simpleton opinion and news, and you're never really sure what's real and what's imagination.

 

[BlueLaser]

You can quote Abraham all day long the facts are that Islamists are killing each other and trying to kill those not like them, if you can't see this you're stupid or in denial. We see this everyday.

In Germany Islamists attacked 300 Yazidi with tools and knifes that were legally protesting.

The Iraq conflict spilled onto the streets of Herford in North Rhine-Westphalia on Wednesday evening as hundreds of members of the Yazidi faith clashed with supporters of Islamist terrorist group ISIS.

Around 300 Yazidi took to the streets in the early evening. They were demonstrating against the attacks on members of their faith in Syria and Iraq and a religiously-motivated attack against their community earlier that day, Herford police reported.

The police decided to intervene after a large group of hooded people started attacking passers-by in the town centre, with at least one person injured. The police used pepper spray to control the mob, confiscating tools and one firearm, and took the details of 86 people involved.

Police reinforcements were called in from all over eastern Westphalia, including officers from Bochum and Dortmund, to keep the different groups apart. The police deployment lasted throughout the night and involved well over 100 officers, a Herford police spokesman told The Local.

http://www.thelocal.de/20140807/echoes-of-iraq-conflict-on-streets-of-herford-yezidi-islamic-state

And? Where did I deny that there are extremists? Since when do fringe groups represent the majority? Are all Christians to be judged by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church?

My point is that you took a quote with no concept of the context in which it exists, and that the same can be done with other religious texts having nothing to do with Islam. In other words, that quote is meaningless and to cite it as though it means something without context is to show ignorance.

Islam is as much a religion of peace as Christianity and Judaism is. It's as much a religion of violence as they are. To put it another way, they're words on a page that tell stories and parables. Until someone takes those parables literally and interprets them one way or the other, the religion itself has no concept of love, peace, hate or violence. It's the people that do that, not the religion.

 

[BlueLaser]

Recently?

During the past few centuries it seems to be overwhelmingly fundamentalist Muslims who are engaged in systematic mass murder in the name of God.

History shapes the future.

Look at Christianity in Ancient Rome. In fact, Christianity is often cited as one of the reasons Rome fell. People no longer had to serve in the military for the glory of Rome, all they had to do was treat each other with kindness and love and help a few lepers and they'd find eternal happiness. It was pacifism, it was nearly veganism for crying out loud.

Look at Islam in it's infancy. Christians showed up making pilgrimages to holy sites that they and their neighbors had been maintaining for decades. And while Jesus is the Messiah in Islam as well, he's one of the less popular and less important prophets. Moses appears more often for one example, plus there's Muhammad. They don't really care about Temple Mount, but they kept them up anyway, out of respect. And when these Christians arrived, Muslims helped with their superior medicine, they revealed their superior technology, they granted safe passage for the pilgrims, provided shelter, food, clothing, friendship, etc. And then out of nowhere, soldiers came. And not only did they come, they engaged in the wholesale slaughter of Muslims. Peaceful or otherwise, it didn't matter. And this violent action by Christians is the spark that ignited Islam and fueled the flames of discord.

If it weren't for the violence of Christians in history, we may not have violent fringes in Islam today. It doesn't matter if Christians aren't killing people today, they did it in much greater numbers and with much less compassion than even the extremists of today are doing. That's enough for Christianity to deserve it's condemnation. So the extreme Muslims are late to the party. The thread is about whether Islam is a religion of peace or not. Just as Christianity can be interpreted to allow the massacre of Muslims just for being Muslim less than a thousand years ago, Islam can be interpreted to allow the massacre of Christians today. The two religions are no different, and the interpretations of the Qu'ran by modern Muslim extremists is no different than the interpretation of the Bible by medieval Christian crusaders.