Israel at war

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Klatuu

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Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas

GAZA CITY, GAZA—The complicity of each and every Palestinian in the violent actions of their militant ruling authority was reportedly on full display Friday morning when dying Gazans received justified criticism for not using their last words to condemn Hamas. For example, instead of issuing a...
www.theonion.com www.theonion.com
 
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Frankfooter

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Leimonis said:
hamas wants israel seize to exist so isn't it moot what UN recognises?
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Why do you think you speak for Hamas?
Feel free to speak for the Jewish supremacists, I think they'll be happy to have you.
But don't claim to know what Palestinians are thinking.
It really just sounds like racist hate speech.
 
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Leimonis

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Frankfooter said:
Why do you think you speak for Hamas?
Feel free to speak for the Jewish supremacists, I think they'll be happy to have you.
But don't claim to know what Palestinians are thinking.
It really just sounds like racist hate speech.
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there is hardly such thing as "what palestinians are thinking".
But hamas let's everyone know what they think

Palestinian Authority and Hamas

Following the Oslo I Accord in 1993, the Palestinian Authority and Israel conditionally recognized each other's right to govern specific areas of the country. This boosted Israel's legal authority and legitimacy on the international stage.[10] Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas said while speaking at the UN regarding Palestinian recognition, "We did not come here seeking to delegitimize a state established years ago, and that is Israel."[11]

Hamas, in contrast, does not recognize Israel as a legitimate government. Furthermore, Hamas denies the legitimacy of the Oslo I Accord.[12]
 
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Klatuu

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mandrill said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712923172155048030
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No wonder you were attracted to this. It’s Nakba 2.0

“Assuming Gaza can be cleared, Israel seems likely to raze it to the ground. Any Hamas terrorists found in the area will be eliminated. But, even when Hamas ceases to exist, it is doubtful that the Palestinians who have left Gaza will ever be allowed to return. If they do, it may only re-create the conditions that will enable history to repeat itself in 20 years time. This means that once the local population has left Gaza, they will become permanently displaced. The United Nations will need to be ready to step-in and create a safe haven for them. The question of what happens to them next will be of vital importance if Israel is to retain the moral high ground in this situation.“
 
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Not getting younger

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Frankfooter said:
I'll take the views of 80% of Israeli Jews who say Netanyahu is to blame.
And we haven't considered the views of Palestinians either.
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I’ll take highly regarded history books, which in plain English say

-Israel has a right to exist per the UN contrary to your claims.

-That Hamas rejected the Oslo accords and peace, scuttled peace talks, wants all of historical Palestine, used Terrorism ( suicide attacks) contrary to the agreements. And your claims

-that Palestinians ALSO broke the Oslo accords by importing arms while Israelis built settlements.

IN plain English Frank. Hamas and Palestinians are to blame.
 
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mandrill

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dirtyharry555 said:
1. Military strategy... being an inferior fighting force, they're guaranteed success with soft targets
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Okay but civilians aren't a legitimate target.
dirtyharry555 said:
2. Geopolitical strategy... waiting for the overreaction.
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Except the HAMAS atrocity of a couple of days ago has robbed them of much of the potential sympathy that folks like me might otherwise feel for the Palestinians. When people go all ISIS on babies, it's off putting.
dirtyharry555 said:
I question the claim of "worldwide support" for Israel's occupation.
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Distinguish between the lip service that the Arab states and Russia will give and any, actual real support.
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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Klatuu said:
No wonder you were attracted to this. It’s Nakba 2.0

“Assuming Gaza can be cleared, Israel seems likely to raze it to the ground. Any Hamas terrorists found in the area will be eliminated. But, even when Hamas ceases to exist, it is doubtful that the Palestinians who have left Gaza will ever be allowed to return. If they do, it may only re-create the conditions that will enable history to repeat itself in 20 years time. This means that once the local population has left Gaza, they will become permanently displaced. The United Nations will need to be ready to step-in and create a safe haven for them. The question of what happens to them next will be of vital importance if Israel is to retain the moral high ground in this situation.“
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Here's your problem with the argument.

Why would Israel suddenly hatch a costly plan to level and eliminate the Gaza enclave, now after allowing its existence for 50 years?.... This is going to cost many Israeli military lives. And Netanyahu is already coming under criticism for allowing the HAMAS attack and not having army units there, waiting and prepared.

Israel was winning the diplomatic war, slowly but surely. All it had to do was wait a little longer.

Upheaval and violence suits the HAMAS agenda far more than the Israeli one. So coming up with a pretense to justify invading Gaza makes no sense from the Israeli perspective.
 
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Klatuu

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Kautilya said:
It is extra judicial detention. Hostage means they want something in return. I dont think they do.
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Then they fit the definition of hostages. Israel routinely blackmails hostages and their families for information or cooperation in order to bring about their freedom.
 
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Klatuu

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Robert Mugabe

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mandrill said:
Dirty, if the Gazans had tried to take an Israeli military post and there was a firefight and the Israeli garrison got killed, I'd figure it was a fair fight.

It's the gang rape of civilian women and the beheading of infants that skew the way most people perceive this assault. People who do that are animals, not human beings.
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Gang rape and baby killing is a legitimate and long established tradition used by isis and their predecessors. I am looking up the reference to it in islamic law. I'm sure it is there.
 
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Leimonis

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mandrill said:
Upheaval and violence suits the HAMAS agenda far more than the Israeli one. So coming up with a pretense to justify invading Gaza makes no sense from the Israeli perspective.
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also suits Iran agenda in undermining Israel-Saudi talks and also suits Putin's agenda in distracting from Ukraine...all the friends are playing for one team it seems
 
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Klatuu

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Not getting younger said:
Dimwits don’t know how to read English.

A little longer this time, hopefully it doesn’t short circuit your command of English

In 1988 the PLO accepted American conditions for opening a U.S.-Palestinian dialogue: rejection of terrorism, recognition of Israel’s right to exist, and acceptance of United NationsSecurity Council Resolutions 242 (which called upon Arab states to accept Israel’s right “to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries”) and 338 (which called for the implementation of Resolution 242 “in all its parts”).

With the intifada proving to be politically and economically damaging to Israel, a new Israeli government was elected in 1992 with a mandate to negotiate for peace. In the following year secret talks between Israel and the PLO under the auspices of the Norwegian government resulted in the Oslo Accords, a series of agreements signed in 1993–95. The accords reiterated the PLO’s 1988 commitments, and Israel recognized the PLO as the Palestinian people’s legitimate representative, agreed to withdraw in stages from areas of the West Bank and Gaza, and allowed the creation of a Palestinian Authority to govern those areas.

In 1988 the PLO accepted American conditions for opening a U.S.-Palestinian dialogue: rejection of terrorism, recognition of Israel’s right to exist, and acceptance of United NationsSecurity Council Resolutions 242 (which called upon Arab states to accept Israel’s right “to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries”) and 338 (which called for the implementation of Resolution 242 “in all its parts”). With the intifada proving to be politically and economically damaging to Israel, a new Israeli government was elected in 1992 with a mandate to negotiate for peace. In the following year secret talks between Israel and the PLO under the auspices of the Norwegian government resulted in the Oslo Accords, a series of agreements signed in 1993–95. The accords reiterated the PLO’s 1988 commitments, and Israel recognized the PLO as the Palestinian people’s legitimate representative, agreed to withdraw in stages from areas of the West Bank and Gaza, and allowed the creation of a Palestinian Authority to govern those areas. Outstanding matters in achieving a two-state solution were to be settled over the next five years.


Twice for good measure.
Negotiations and continued violence

Just as the PLO turned to pragmatism, however, a new organization, Hamas, headed in the opposite direction, articulating a vision of an Islamic state in all of historical Palestine. Hamas rejected the Oslo Accords and, in a move to scuttle peace talks, initiated a series of suicide attacks against Israeli targets.


Meanwhile, Israel continued to build settlements in the occupied territories, and the Palestinians imported arms and built up their security forces, in violation of the terms of the Oslo Accords.
.
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Looks like you still can’t find those borders Israel had to define. Israel not abiding by the accord.
 
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Klatuu

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Kautilya said:
That is interrogation. But I agree extra judicial detention and torture etc is fucked.
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That’s a hostage. Over 1000 and that grotesquely includes children.
 
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