It IS possible to beat the system!

[topoon]

A few months ago I had a court date for a bogus traffic charge, and represented myself in court and won. It felt awful good to stand up for my rights and not be bullied by a police officer into paying for a driving infraction i didn't commit. The following is another quick story hopefully inspiring people to stand up for themselves and not just pay a ticket when you don't feel you should.

Over the weekend, I received a red-light camera ticket in the mai, $180. First let me say that I totally disagree with these cameras. I understand people say that they reduce accidents, but there's so few of them around nobody EVER thinks about them. They are a blatant tax grab, and I'm totally against them. I refuse to accept a big brother state where we can't live our lives without fear of a camera catching us doing something we aren't supposed to. So after doing a little research and being told 100% there's no way to fight it, don't even bother, i refused to take that for an answer. So I looked up the highway traffic act regarding red-light camera tickets, and near the bottom of the act, it says

"(1) An offence notice issued in a proceeding based on evidence obtained through the use of a red light camera system may be served by sending the offence notice by regular prepaid mail to the person charged within 23 days after the occurrence of the alleged offence. O. Reg. 277/99, s. 4 (1)."

i checked the ticket and the OPP officer took 26 days to certify the picture. I took it into the justice of the peace, and he cancelled the ticket on the spot! I understand that I was in fact quilty of the offence, but it was one of those times when the light turns red as your almost through the intersection..its happened to everyone, so please no bashing about how im a bad driver!

Fight your tickets people!

 

[OddSox]

I understand that I was in fact quilty of the offence, but it was one of those times when the light turns red as your almost through the intersection..its happened to everyone, so please no bashing about how im a bad driver!

Apparently you don't understand - you ARE a bad driver and a menace on the roads. You can try and downplay it as much as you like, but the fact is:

The cameras are set so that only those vehicles that enter an intersection after the light has turned red are photographed. Vehicles that enter on yellow and are within the intersection when the light changes to red are not photographed.

http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/redlight_cameras/faq.htm

 

[topoon]

Actually, camera's sometimes don't work the way they should! I was halfway through the intersection when the first picture was taken and was sent a ticket. Besides i asked for this not to turn into a thread bashing my driving skills, I don't judge you over the fact you cheat on your wife!

 

[GDLLover]

It would seem that the op doesn't understand that these cameras were put in place because of the many people that were running yellow lights, which then turn into reds by the time their half way through. Even worse there were some people running the red as well. How would you feel if you t-boned someone while doing this?

You can feel good that you got out on a technicallity but you were still wrong and luckily no one was hurt. Infact i'm glad the cameras are there and hopefully will stop an innocent person from dying. I'm all for suicide so if you want to kill yourself, go ahead, jump off a bridge or something but don't take an innocent person with you as they don't want to play the life or death game. How would you feel if it was someone you loved that got killed by a idiot running a yellow?

GDL

 

[GDLLover]

I don't judge you over the fact you cheat on your wife!

This would be preaching to the choir.

 

[topoon]

It was 10 oclock at night, there was not a single car or pedestrian at the intersection. I didn't run a red light and please don't crusify me without having evidence to the contrary. Has anyone ever been given a ticket/ or been charged with something they didn't do? Yes! It happens! Just because the rules for the camera state that it doesn't take pictures of cars already in the intersection, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And the officers are supposed to look over the photographs and deem that an offence has taken place before they sign the ticket correct? Well the law also states that they have 23 days to do so after the offence, and if that time elapses than the ticket is not valid. well the officer ignored that rule, who's to say he didn't ignore the other rules? He probably thought i would just pay it, and said screw it.

Hey, if your fine with camera's being placed all around us, and invading your privacy that's fine by me. I'm not, first its the red-light camera, then its the downtown CCTV camera's and eventually they are in our homes! Hey a little extreme but thats how things happen!

 

[mmouse]

I was halfway through the intersection when the first picture was taken

If you were within the intersection and the light was red, you broke the law. I fuckin hate people who run red lights.

 

[topoon]

some stupid people on this website! you aren't running a red light unless the light has turned red before you enter the intersection. Look at the traffic laws....I'm sure that has NEVER ONCE happen to you in your entire driving career...or you've never gotten a ticket for speeding right? I fuckin HATE people who speed! It causes the majority of accidents! So far I'm counting 3 mindless sheep!

 

[Cassini]

Red Light cameras increase accidents. People hit the breaks on a yellow light. In adverse weather conditions, braking on yellow can cause you to spin. If anyone is tailgating, accidents ensue ...

If you were within the intersection and the light was red, you broke the law. I fuckin hate people who run red lights.

To not be caught in the intersection on a Red, in Toronto, you need to stop on the Green and make sure everything is clear. That would affect traffic.

It is also why the Red Light means you are not supposed to ENTER the intersection. On a Red, you are supposed to CLEAR the intersection.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Fight your tickets people!

If everybody would things would be so different but too many just wimp out and pay up with no fight what so ever.

 

[topoon]

thank you! people are so conditioned to just do what their told. there's a reason you have to be proven guilty in a court of law in Canada. It's so a police state doesn't occur whereby you are controlled however way they want to. You have the right to fight charges, and that's the reason you have that option on your ticket. A yellow ticket from a police officer, or some pictures in the mail, doesn't mean your guilty of ANYTHING! It just means that you are accused of something, but it is a fundamental right of yours to fight that accusation!
It is also VERY VERY easy to beat charges if you take the time to understand what you are being charged with, and the procedures the law must take to PROVE you are guilty

 

[RandyAndy2]

Red Light cameras increase accidents. People hit the breaks on a yellow light. In adverse weather conditions, braking on yellow can cause you to spin. If anyone is tailgating, accidents ensue ...

OK, correct me if I'm wrong. When the light turns from green to amber if you can safely stop, you should. Of course you don't jam on the brakes regardless of how close you are to the lights. It's a judgement call, but too many people display poor judgement when they see the light turn amber and speed up to catch the light. In adverse weather conditions, one should be driving with more caution, but the rules of the road hold. If someone is tailgating any accident that ensues is their fault - they shouldn't be tailgating, especially in adverse weather conditions.

In my view your point that, "Red Light cameras increase accidents" isn't supported.

I expect that the OP now considers me one of the "sheep". I can live with that. I just hope he doesn't run any reds where I or any of my family or friends are driving.

 

[Garrett]

thank you! people are so conditioned to just do what their told. there's a reason you have to be proven guilty in a court of law in Canada. It's so a police state doesn't occur whereby you are controlled however way they want to. You have the right to fight charges, and that's the reason you have that option on your ticket. A yellow ticket from a police officer, or some pictures in the mail, doesn't mean your guilty of ANYTHING! It just means that you are accused of something, but it is a fundamental right of yours to fight that accusation!
It is also VERY VERY easy to beat charges if you take the time to understand what you are being charged with, and the procedures the law must take to PROVE you are guilty

How do you feel about murderers who kill someone and get off on a technicality? Are they also helping to fight the police state?

I think you are a weasel. Take responsibility for your actions. Stop being a bottom feeder and trying to rationalize your bad driving.

 

[topoon]

this thread wasn't intended at being a "safe driving lessons thread", it was a thread about cameras taking over the duties of police officers. I'm a good driver, I have no driving convictions on my transcript, I drive at lower speeds on the roads and highways than most others do, i don't tailgate or swerve either, and i've never been in an accident. So stop preaching. Garrett, you've never done anything like litter, throw your smoke on the ground, jay-walk? How would you feel if you got a notice in the mail saying a camera saw you jay-walking and you got a $180 ticket for that? What about tossing yoru smoke on the ground and a camera caught it? Or a camera caught you holding your phone in your hand while driving? Quit preaching about responsibility, because, NO ONE, and I MEAN NO ONE, follows every single one of our laws to a T! If you say otherwise your bullshitting.

4tees i wish i could have come up with the bawdy house example because it is perfect! Anyone of us that has seen an escort in an incall has broken the law, and everyone of us would fight it instead of copping the charge!

 

[nolabel]

some stupid people on this website! you aren't running a red light unless the light has turned red before you enter the intersection . . . I fuckin HATE people who speed! It causes the majority of accidents! So far I'm counting 3 mindless sheep!

With the risk of being a mindless sheep, while you are not running a red unless it is red before you enter, presuming you have your eyes open, you should see the orange and try not to enter the intersection if possible. If the light goes red and you are in the intersection, then you either misjudged how long that orange had been on for, or you ignored that it was orange and continued to cruise on through. You are correct that speeding is a problem, but so too is being a bit too cavalier about how long it takes to clear an intersection. I suspect some of the rebukes you received are really people thinking something like the following: "dude, respect the intersection - don't try and make it through every one, whether that means speeding or not stopping".

If everyone just drove a little more cautiosly then everyone's safety would increase, even if our travel times gained 5-10 minutes. There's nothing stupid about people basically saying that to you.

 

[Never Compromised]

Red Light cameras increase accidents. People hit the breaks on a yellow light. In adverse weather conditions, braking on yellow can cause you to spin. If anyone is tailgating, accidents ensue ...



To not be caught in the intersection on a Red, in Toronto, you need to stop on the Green and make sure everything is clear. That would affect traffic.

It is also why the Red Light means you are not supposed to ENTER the intersection. On a Red, you are supposed to CLEAR the intersection.

Ummm, I was told that yellow means STOP if you are able to do so safely. If you are driving in adverse conditions, you are expected to drive with caution, slow down, and keep more distance between you and the driver in front.

Also, tailgating is illegal.

You are suppose to clear the intersection on the yellow. Red means stop, do not enter the intersection.

 

[topoon]

i totally agree. Believe me i don't try to make every light, i don't run lights that are red already either. It's just a thing that happens once and a while, where the light turns red while your underneith, it happens 1000's and 1000's of times a day in Toronto, to everybody, bad drivers and good. It doesn't make me a bad driver, and i don't appreciate being called a menace to the roads.
The only reason i made this thread was to let people know that you can stand up for yourself, in situations like this.

 

[nolabel]

i totally agree. Believe me i don't try to make every light, i don't run lights that are red already either. It's just a thing that happens once and a while, where the light turns red while your underneith, it happens 1000's and 1000's of times a day in Toronto, to everybody, bad drivers and good. It doesn't make me a bad driver, and i don't appreciate being called a menace to the roads.
The only reason i made this thread was to let people know that you can stand up for yourself, in situations like this.

I don't think anyone really thinks you're a menace to the road! You said enough to suggest you think about good and bad driving habits. I also think everyone is cool with you beating the system, because it aint perfect and is stupid in many ways. But one other way of "standing up for yourself" is encouraging safe driving habits (it benefits others, but you too, because others driving safer is good for you). I wonder if those who took pot shots at you are worried - as I admit to a bit - that the knowledge that beating the system is always there might encourage recklessness? Sometimes the system might be more than just an Orwellian nightmare. It might also protect us from ourselves?

 

[S.C. Joe]

Over here in Michigan and many other states the highway deaths deceased when the freeway speed limits were increased. So this blank statement that speed kills is wrong, its the differences in speeds that are a danger more than speed itself.

A few years back some guy on a race track lost control of his race car and crashed in to a wall at 200 mph. The wall shattered and the guy and even his car were not hurt bad at all. Everybody was saying if his car was going only 100 mph mostly likely the wall would not had shattered and he would have been killed. Going super fast on impact saved his live.

I know that has nothing to do with real world driving on the streets, just thought I share that story.

 

[diehard]

A few years back some guy on a race track lost control of his race car and crashed in to a wall at 200 mph. The wall shattered and the guy and even his car were not hurt bad at all. Everybody was saying if his car was going only 100 mph mostly likely the wall would not had shattered and he would have been killed. Going super fast on impact saved his live.

Was it a concrete wall?