It's the economy...stupid

onthebottom

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someone said:
I’m using the term to mean non fiscal conservatives. As you likely know, I tend to be very much of a fiscal conservative. I don’t like current governments spending the tax dollars of people who are either too young to vote or who are not even born yet.

Would fiscal conservatism be best measured as budget per person or as a % of GDP? Couldn't a fiscally liberal government just tax the hell out of their people and run a surplus? In fact then you could give money/programs back when you call an election and buy votes, but I can't think of anywhere that would happen.... and really stupid people would think the government was running a profit!

LOL


OTB
 

someone

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onthebottom said:
Would fiscal conservatism be best measured as budget per person or as a % of GDP? Couldn't a fiscally liberal government just tax the hell out of their people and run a surplus? In fact then you could give money/programs back when you call an election and buy votes, but I can't think of anywhere that would happen.... and really stupid people would think the government was running a profit!

LOL


OTB
I would still prefer that as future generations would not be paying for decisions of current generations, which they had no say in. However, I admit that in the end, how you compare the welfare of current generations and future generations is a normative issue. Thus, if you disagree, I can’t say you are factually wrong, only that your values are different.
 

onthebottom

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someone said:
I would still prefer that as future generations would not be paying for decisions of current generations, which they had no say in. However, I admit that in the end, how you compare the welfare of current generations and future generations is a normative issue. Thus, if you disagree, I can’t say you are factually wrong, only that your values are different.
I get this, but I weigh this against the spending pressure deficits create, if you run a surplus government will just spend it, remember Bill Clinton's "save social security first"? There is enough hypocrisy in this to paint them all black, which is why my tag line is what it is.

OTB
 

someone

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onthebottom said:
I get this, but I weigh this against the spending pressure deficits create, if you run a surplus government will just spend it,
I think this is becoming a problem in Canada. In principle, I like the idea of the government running surpluses to pay down the national debt. Nonetheless, in practice the large surpluses create tempting targets for every special interest group and province that wants a cut of it. I don’t think that it would be so much of a problem with a majority government in Ottawa. However, with a minority, Martin seems eager to try to buy a majority at the next election. Nonetheless, I prefer transfers between people in the current generation (who by electing the government are getting the one they deserve) then between generations that have no say in current policies. Thus, I would be open to the idea of cutting taxes to get rid of a large part of the surplus but not tax cuts big enough to run a deficit.
 

langeweile

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someone said:
I think this is becoming a problem in Canada. In principle, I like the idea of the government running surpluses to pay down the national debt. Nonetheless, in practice the large surpluses create tempting targets for every special interest group and province that wants a cut of it. I don’t think that it would be so much of a problem with a majority government in Ottawa. However, with a minority, Martin seems eager to try to buy a majority at the next election. Nonetheless, I prefer transfers between people in the current generation (who by electing the government are getting the one they deserve) then between generations that have no say in current policies. Thus, I would be open to the idea of cutting taxes to get rid of a large part of the surplus but not tax cuts big enough to run a deficit.
If you and I ever will see a cent of the surplus I will pay for your next SP visit...
Politicians and bureaucrats could care less about your and my money. if they have it they spend it. if they don't have it, they raise our taxes.
 

danmand

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langeweile said:
If you and I ever will see a cent of the surplus I will pay for your next SP visit...
Politicians and bureaucrats could care less about your and my money. if they have it they spend it. if they don't have it, they raise our taxes.
Any true conservative should be pleased with the canadian government paying down the national debt. (While the neoconservatives in the US are raking up obscene deficits).
 

Gyaos

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onthebottom said:
Times were good during the last 5 years of the Clinton presidency, it was called the Internet and the stock market, but hey, who's heard of that..... classic bubble economy actually. OTB
Not true. Clinton raised taxes to pay down the debt from George W, Bush Jr.'s Daddy and he (Clinton) lost the congress in the process. Then Clinton pushed for investment into the economy with that money for the boom during his last 3 years. But in order for the boom to happen in which the wealth was distributed to everyone and created jobs and income for just about all with great salaries and ease to pay taxes and social security, it was the original 1993 tax increases that had to happen. To get the $$ that Bush Junior won't take in, especially during a war. Bush Jr. doesn't even care about America, that's why I dislike him so much.

The Internet was a small part of the 90's boom, less than 5% and the stock market boomed on those tech stocks. But, people of all walks of life were getting money and poverty was lowered. And the push for a national health insurance kept those health insurance company pigs from pushing rates up too high! Look at what Bush Junior is doing to business with skyrocketting health insurance! The Republicans are trying to take credit for the 90's boom, but it was Clinton and his good finacial advisors like Robert Reich that helped the economy. It even helped Donald Trump in real estate. I say this not only from what I know, but what Clinton said just last Saturday 10/29/05 in Texas, a magnificent speech.

Now George W. Bush Jr. made the "bubble" look like a bubble, when it was not a bubble. And he did that simply to do what he said he was going to do....his obsession with Saddam Heussein, a ghost. And his thumb sucking obsession has hurt many Americans, but he won't get away with it. Dick Cheney is next for indictment in which you will see Bush Jr. proven to be involved. And the Republicans will lose big in 2006, not because they are Republicans, but because they just suck.

So who's funding the rich to get richer, the poor to get poorer and wars in Iraq? China. We go to the Bank of China to get money for them to invest into our debt because in order for China to survive, America has to survive to buy their huge number of imports. And this borrowing is funding the fake war. If China suddenly decided to go another route and invest into Euros, America's economy is finished. But, of course, that won't happen. For a 1990's boom economy, Bush Jr. must be forced to resign and Cheney indicted. Otherwise, we are going to have many more poor people in America, less millionaires and the rich getting richer on the fingers of communist China and the backs of dead American soldiers. And when Google crashes, you'll just hate Bush Jr. for what he is.....just blame Bush Junior.

With the White House weakened, business can then stimulate the economy for the remaining 3 years and reinvest all that money into the people......we sure hope. Health insurance companies must be fought and stopped. The FTC ruling allowing doctors and pill companies to have commercial ads must be halted and deemed illegal. This is how to stimulate the economy. Take the money that's in the wrong place and get it into the people. This way the people can buy products, cheap products and save money. And with people having big incomes, everything gets paid off quickly. The US Dollar should be worth 300 yen, but it isn't because George W. Bush Jr. and criminal John Snow (who is about to retire) don't want it that way. Dick Cheney wanted $60.00 oil and he got exactly what he said he was going to do.....get $60.00 sustained oil.

We have the evidence now. 12 years the Republican way, 8 years the Clinton way, and 5 years the Bush Junior little boy way. I'll take the Clinton way and Steve Forbes.

That's my take. It's the money. I want the money, if there's so much of it. :cool:

Gyaos Baltar
 

onthebottom

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Well, a new contender for stupidest post - I'll give a more constructive responce when I'm not typing with my thumbs.

OTB
 

Peeping Tom

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That is his style. Anyways, no biggie - I stopped reading his posts after bbk debunked them as nonsense. After all, his biggest claim is a diploma from a box of Cracker Jack and he lectures at Smack Fu U. - those are good indicators that all is not well. At least I got this gem for my sig line, from his own words, before putting him on ignore.

Speaking of bbk, he seems to have retired. Too bad, as he was more of the old school of leftist, the ones one could debate with a minimum of name calling.

papasmerf said:
WOW insults when you do not agre. How anticipated.
 

someone

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Peeping Tom said:
That is his style. Anyways, no biggie - I stopped reading his posts after bbk debunked them as nonsense. After all, his biggest claim is a diploma from a box of Cracker Jack and he lectures at Smack Fu U. - those are good indicators that all is not well. At least I got this gem for my sig line, from his own words, before putting him on ignore.

Speaking of bbk, he seems to have retired. Too bad, as he was more of the old school of leftist, the ones one could debate with a minimum of name calling.
You have to be the stupidest poster on this board. I’ve yet to see a single post from you that was not complete nonsense. Do I really need to bring up more examples of your stupidity? As I say you have not made on intelligent post in your entire time here. As I said, next to you even GWB and Papasmerf look smart and that is saying something.
 

someone

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onthebottom said:
Well, a new contender for stupidest post - I'll give a more constructive responce when I'm not typing with my thumbs.

OTB
I’m not sure whose post you are referring to but it doesn’t really matter. Peeping Tom would win hands down in any such contest. When I get a bit more time, I will dig up a few examples to prove my point. If you don’t want to wait, just look at a few of the ones I dig up yesterday.
 
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langeweile

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someone said:
You have to be the stupidest poster on this board. I’ve yet to see a single post from you that was not complete nonsense. Do I really need to bring up more examples of your stupidity? As I say you have not made on intelligent post in your entire time here. As I said, next to you even GWB and Papasmerf look smart and that is saying something.
Does that mean i have lost that title???:(
 

someone

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langeweile said:
Does that mean i have lost that title???
Sorry, but anyone who says you have the title has never read Peeping Tom's posts. Unless, you can produce one that comes close to one of his pieces of nonsense, I don’t see how you can even be in the running. I’ll dig up some more examples later (for some reason the system is not letting me I can’t click onto people’s profiles right now). Moreover, at times, I think you’re more reasonable than I am (OK maybe that is not a high standard:) ).

EDIT: I still can't seem to click on people's profiles but when I do, just tell me now many examples I need to prove my point. I seem to recall that he has almost 1000 posts but I don't really want to go through them all just to convince you and OTB that no one else could possibly complete for stupidest post.
 
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onthebottom

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More bad news for the US economy, manufacturing continued to expand in October even with higher than expected energy costs! When oh when will we achieve Canadian or European levels of economic progress ;-)

LOL

OTB
 

langeweile

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onthebottom said:
More bad news for the US economy, manufacturing continued to expand in October even with higher than expected energy costs! When oh when will we achieve Canadian or European levels of economic progress ;-)

LOL

OTB
From what i heard on the news yesterday the Canadian economy is not doing all that bad.
It is being helped by rising prices for materials, but hurt by a stronger $$
 

Truncador

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Peeping Tom said:
OMG: One of the stupidest comments in the history of the intarweb
I had no idea that a single line could exert as much utter, complete pwnage over another poster as this one did. Good show !!
 

Gyaos

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onthebottom said:
More bad news for the US economy, manufacturing continued to expand in October even with higher than expected energy costs!
Not in "double digits", because China has those jobs. You could say the US economy is moving at a "measured pace" while the relief efforts just trickle in.
 

onthebottom

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Gyaos said:
Not in "double digits", because China has those jobs. You could say the US economy is moving at a "measured pace" while the relief efforts just trickle in.
LOL, 3.8 is "measured pace", I don't know I think this guy is making a run at stupidest terb poster, an agressive goal with significant competition!

OTB
 

someone

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Nominations for poll

onthebottom said:
LOL, 3.8 is "measured pace", I don't know I think this guy is making a run at stupidest terb poster, an agressive goal with significant competition!

OTB
I stongly disagree. However, perhaps the way to settle this is to set up a poll and let the majority decide. However, to do so we need to get an idea of who to include in the poll. Perhaps people could post their nominations and then we could set up a poll. It would perhaps be best to wait a couple of days for everyone to make their nominations. I for one nominate Peeping Tom. Anyone, else want to make nominations? Also,should it be for the stupidest post or the stupidest overall posting record?
 
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