Justin Trudeau was bad, but Mark Carney will be far worse

[richaceg]

C'mon guys... Carney had 1 week..I'd give him a benefit of the doubt... let's see what happens after 1 year...

 

[Callmerey]

I hope you do understand basic information you laid it out yourself in the thread topic-
Trudeau “was”, Carney “will”.

“Will” is future, which hasn’t happened yet. And I doubt you are an astrologer to predict something which may or may not happen in future.

 

[WyattEarp]

Oh, I read the link. It was funnier than last nights episode of The Simspons. Thanks for providing the laughs!
Lemme give you my take on it -
On March 22, 2025, a UK Conservative politician (Truss) does an interview with a US conservative podcaster (Beck), blaming a Canadian Liberal political candidate (Carney) for her losing her job as UK Prime Minister even though Carney's term as BoE Guv'na ended 2 years before she even became UK PM. The BoE Governor during her term was Andrew Bailey, whose appointment would have been approved by whichever Conservative UK PM was sitting at that time - Boris Johnson.
Now, why the fuck would a US podcaster be interviewing a UK ex-PM to talk shit about a former BoE Governor? Don't you find that odd? Especially when aforementioned BoE Gov was recruited in by the UK Cons, who asked him to stay longer than his original agreed term. Why didnt they part ways when his originally agreed-to term came to an end if there was indication he was doing a "Terrible job" as per Truss? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, this 22 March podcast was a smear campaign? I mean, the Canadian Cons lost a DOUBLE DIGIT LEAD in the polls over the span of a few weeks, and rather than taking responsibility for an incompetent campaign, they concoct this obvious smear job.
If you'd like to explain how this interview came to be, at the point it did during OUR election, I'm all ears. I think the explanation you should be looking for is "political interference by foreign actors".
Looking forward to reading your reply - hope its better than the ones you've provided thus far!
Have a great day!
Your pal, Seth

Well yes, monetary policy set in 2020 is relevant in 2022. The effects of printing excessive money don't show up immediately and they don't instantaneously disappear. That's why it's taking our Fed so long to rein in inflation. I don't know how much blame you can really assess Carney since he had already finished his work in the U.K (March 2020). In any event, all the Central Banks took their cue from the Fed to print money during COVID. Money printing was a coordinated action across the G-7.

Liz Truss? I don't know why Liz Truss is a progressive poster child for the failure of market-oriented economic policies. Like her or not, I hardly think 49 days is a great test for her economic policies.

From my readings, Truss was brought down by two things. The easiest to explain is that there was still internal in-fighting in the party for the leadership. The last was the UK pensions making massive bets on low interest rates to make up for low portfolio returns. Perhaps this was done on signals from the Treasury. If you step back and look at this, this amounts to the UK pensions making a bet on low UK growth. Truss wanted to implement a pro-growth agenda.

Anyways, what caught Truss and the market by surprise was how fast the pensions were exposed by their big bets. That's why she blames Carney for not regulating the pensions. I'm not sure that's fair or unfair to pull in Mr. Carney.

 

[WyattEarp]

I hope you do understand basic information you laid it out yourself in the thread topic-
Trudeau “was”, Carney “will”.

“Will” is future, which hasn’t happened yet.
And I doubt you are an astrologer to predict something which may or may not happen in future.

No offense, but I think a post like this is unfairly derogatory.
The entire forum is littered with prognosis.

If someone said Carney will guide the country in a smart and balanced manner and that Canada will get back on a healthy growth track, would you find it objectionable?

 

[bazokajoe]

I mean, I absolutely do. I own about 60 acres of land in 2 countries, I have 6 cars and 4 motorcycles. This morning for breakfast I drank a hot coffee and ate avocado toast, while sitting on my deck looking at the many-many tulips blooming in my garden.

By historical standards, I'm certainly living better than George V, and maybe Edward VIII.

By personal standards: I'm well ahead of my non-english speaking immigrant grandfather, and my own father. By the time I was 6, I knew what "overdraft" meant, and while living with my parents, I don't believe I ever had new clothes. Today I'm not a 1%, but I am somewhere between 2 and 5.

So yeah, I'm living in a fantasy world as a result of a robust public education system. I'm grateful for it, and I'd like to continue the conditions that allowed it to happen for others.

I guess I'm supposed to be impressed, but I'm not.

 

[Other Wanderer]

First, when I hear Poilievre I think he is knowledgeable and has articulated his positions well. Many of the TERB members don't like his positions and things quickly devolve into name-calling and personal attacks.

I didn't get a lot of why Carney will be different than Trudeau from the board discussions. It's kind of like we're going to change quarterbacks and run the same plays. Trust us it will be better. Oh yeah, Carney can beat Trump whatever that means.

As far as Trump, it's almost not always his demeanor and temperament that attracts voters. It's his ability to stand up to an inert press and imitative legislators including those in his own parties.

What people have a hard time understanding is how can Trump be right about tariffs. After all, most of the media says their bad. Most politicians take issue with them. The Biden Administration never articulated a problem. What they rarely discuss is how can we persist with annual trade deficits of $1 trillion dollars. If they don't talk about the problem, they are talking about nothing.

The problem is that tariffs presume there is this global market dying to buy US stuff.

When it comes to Apple phones, or Google searches, or certain life-saving drugs ... sure. Before Boeing was taken over by financial idiots, I'd put planes there too.

You don't see people complaining too much about market access for fantastic American products worldwide.

But many other US products are just not that good outside that realm.

That's why Americans themselves buy foreign products in key industries.

The second assumption is that Gen Z etc want to work in factories.

Not convinced. People are comfortable and entitled due to a high standard of living and a specific media culture which looks down on that kind of work.

So I agree there is a problem but skeptical Trump has the time or political runway to solve it.

Finally on Canada, Poilievre only knows how to repeat talking points and has no idea how the world works.

People didn't want to experiment after watching the implementation issues the US has been experiencing with less traditional cabinet etc appointees.

 

[seth gecko]

Well yes, monetary policy set in 2020 is relevant in 2022. The effects of printing excessive money don't show up immediately and they don't instantaneously disappear. That's why it's taking our Fed so long to rein in inflation. I don't know how much blame you can really assess Carney since he had already finished his work in the U.K (March 2020). In any event, all the Central Banks took their cue from the Fed to print money during COVID. Money printing was a coordinated action across the G-7.

By and large we are in agreement, distinction being that Truss is referring to Carneys' decision to run the printing presses in 2016 during the Brexit situation.
But there does seem to be a coordinated attempt by Beck and/or Truss to blame Carney

Liz Truss? I don't know why Liz Truss is a progressive poster child for the failure of market-oriented economic policies. Like her or not, I hardly think 49 days is a great test for her economic policies.

Yes, and she's largely fallen off the UK political landscape since losing the confidence of her party and then losing her seat in a subsequent election. So why the fuck is she on a US podcast talking about it now?

From my readings, Truss was brought down by two things. The easiest to explain is that there was still internal in-fighting in the party for the leadership. The last was the UK pensions making massive bets on low interest rates to make up for low portfolio returns. Perhaps this was done on signals from the Treasury. If you step back and look at this, this amounts to the UK pensions making a bet on low UK growth. Truss wanted to implement a pro-growth agenda.

Yes, we are largely in agreement here as well

Anyways, what caught Truss and the market by surprise was how fast the pensions were exposed by their big bets. That's why she blames Carney for not regulating the pensions. I'm not sure that's fair or unfair to pull in Mr. Carney.

Once again, we are largely in agreement; I do not believe that regulating pensions was a function of the BoE, as there is an independent entity, coincidentally called The Pensions Regulator. Fair or not, and likely not, Carney was pulled in, into what IMO was an attempted to influence the Canadian election, by a UK politician on a US podcast. I find that action of greater concern than anything Truss tries to assign to Carney for her downfall.

 

[WyattEarp]

The problem is that tariffs presume there is this global market dying to buy US stuff.

When it comes to Apple phones, or Google searches, or certain life-saving drugs ... sure. Before Boeing was taken over by financial idiots, I'd put planes there too.

You don't see people complaining too much about market access for fantastic American products worldwide.

But many other US products are just not that good outside that realm.

That's why Americans themselves buy foreign products in key industries.

The second assumption is that Gen Z etc want to work in factories.

Not convinced. People are comfortable and entitled due to a high standard of living and a specific media culture which looks down on that kind of work.

So I agree there is a problem but skeptical Trump has the time or political runway to solve it.

Finally on Canada, Poilievre only knows how to repeat talking points and has no idea how the world works.

People didn't want to experiment after watching the implementation issues the US has been experiencing with less traditional cabinet etc appointees.

I think you are leaning into a narrative. You are ignoring some foreign manufacturers can build plants in the U.S. It also ignores countries subsidizing and/or supporting favored industries. China is way over-invested and continuing to invest in export-related manufacturing.

The balanced trade argument doesn't attempt to look at one industry or another. It's not about this specific job or that specific job. It's also an argument that's been in play long before Trump.

Balanced trade is an argument to reduce financial imbalances (dangerous and unstable long-term) caused by an over-reliance on the U.S. to be the consumer of last resort. The way to describe this is that the world has a lack of consumption. I think when you put it that way you can see the U.S. cannot keep consuming more and more whether that be coming from China, Germany, Japan, etc.

PS- I'm going to say this later to squeeze. If you get most of your economic understanding from journalistic sources, you will get a cursory view of the issues. Most journalists including those on business networks don't have much education in economics. I think I have heard more than one commentator say foreign trade was a boring subject of which most of the audience couldn't discern the issues.

 

[silentkisser]

I read this article, but not all five pages of this thread. First, we should all recognize that this is an opinion piece. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. It doesn't mean we need to listen to it speak...

Now, it should be blatantly clear that the writer isn't a middle of the road type of guy. He has his right-wing bonafides, and is decidedly against anything the Liberals have or will do. You can talk about Trudeau's missteps, and lord knows he made a bunch of them. But Carney hasn't even named his cabinet yet, and these folks already have their knives out for him. Now, I think we can likely agree that if the situation was reversed, there would likely be a lefty opinion writer crucifying PP or something....

I do find it amusing that they lambast Carney as a globalist. Considering what is going on right now with our closest ally and trading partner....or what was once those things....look abroad is now more important than ever for Canada. I laugh when people who clearly do not know much about politics say things like Carney is going to sell Canada out. I mean, I am not a Poilievre fan, but I honestly do not think he would intentionally sell the country down the river, despite how much he LOVES Trump.

I mean, we can (and will) debate what Carney does in the next few months and years. But, let's not lean over our skies too much too soon. It is a new government. There will likely be some familiar faces, including people who will be elevated because they supported Carney. That is politics. It's happened since Confederation...

 

[richaceg]

We won't know Mark Carney will fuck it up until he does...Canadians casted their votes and they wanted Carney as the PM...get over it.

 

[WyattEarp]

By and large we are in agreement, distinction being that Truss is referring to Carneys' decision to run the printing presses in 2016 during the Brexit situation. But there does seem to be a coordinated attempt by Beck and/or Truss to blame Carney

I saw a short period around 2017 where UK money growth picked up. It appears UK money growth was much lower in the two years before COVID. These were Carney's last two years as head of the UK Central Bank.

Yes, and she's largely fallen off the UK political landscape since losing the confidence of her party and then losing her seat in a subsequent election. So why the fuck is she on a US podcast talking about it now?

I would say Truss is a talking head. She released a book with a big title last year. "Ten Years to Save the West. Lessons from the Only Conservative in the Room" So I would defend her by simply saying she is a global commentator who champions conservative ideals and tries to sell books.

Fair or not, and likely not, Carney was pulled in, into what IMO was an attempted to influence the Canadian election, by a UK politician on a US podcast. I find that action of greater concern than anything Truss tries to assign to Carney for her downfall.

I don't know if I would consider Liz Truss a politician at this point.

 

[JohnLarue]

Oh, I read the link. It was funnier than last nights episode of The Simspons. Thanks for providing the laughs!
Lemme give you my take on it -
On March 22, 2025, a UK Conservative politician (Truss) does an interview with a US conservative podcaster (Beck), blaming a Canadian Liberal political candidate (Carney) for her losing her job as UK Prime Minister even though Carney's term as BoE Guv'na ended 2 years before she even became UK PM

.
Again you did not read or understand what she said
you made this irrelevant argument already

The BoE Governor during her term was Andrew Bailey, whose appointment would have been approved by whichever Conservative UK PM was sitting at that time - Boris Johnson.
Now, why the fuck would a US podcaster be interviewing a UK ex-PM to talk shit about a former BoE Governor? Don't you find that odd? Especially when aforementioned BoE Gov was recruited in by the UK Cons, who asked him to stay longer than his original agreed term. Why didnt they part ways when his originally agreed-to term came to an end if there was indication he was doing a "Terrible job" as per Truss? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, this 22 March podcast was a smear campaign? I mean, the Canadian Cons lost a DOUBLE DIGIT LEAD in the polls over the span of a few weeks, and rather than taking responsibility for an incompetent campaign, they concoct this obvious smear job.
If you'd like to explain how this interview came to be, at the point it did during OUR election, I'm all ears. I think the explanation you should be looking for is "political interference by foreign actors".
Looking forward to reading your reply - hope its better than the ones you've provided thus far!

its interesting you have also steered away from absolving Trudeaus lack of interest/ understanding of monetary policy
A very dangerous position for the countries largest borrower and a irresponsible fool borrower to take


you are focusing on timing of appointments relative to her time as PM
policy impacts do not abruptly end when a policy makers contract ends

Truss was calling out the “network node” of people who “forced” her to undo the measures, which had caused the U.K. pound to drop to its lowest-ever rate against the U.S. dollar. Asked about the World Economic Forum, she said it’s a “breeding ground” for those types — “people who believe in … wokeism, environmental extremism, big government, high taxation” — and labelled Carney a “regular.”


“Mark Carney was the governor of the Bank of England who printed money to a huge extent, creating inflation,” she said, referencing the policymaker’s decision to reactivate a money printing programme in response to Brexit-related risks it had publicly warned about.

“He was the one who created the pensions crisis in the first place by not regulating the pensions industry properly,” she suggested.

she was clearly warning about the World Economic Forum, she said it’s a “breeding ground” for those types — “people who believe in … wokeism, environmental extremism, big government, high taxation” — and labelled Carney a “regular.”

we do not need more wokeism, environmental extremism, big government, high taxation”

Have a great day!
Your pal, Seth

 

[JohnLarue]

Skoob, it would surprise you to know many people who voted for Carney share the views the Conservatives have on several (but not all) issues.

Where you lose all credibility with these people is when you pretend Carney was running Trudeau's government.

That's complete bullshit.

Wrong
Carney was Trudeau's economic adviser since 2020

In 2020, Carney served as one of many informal advisors to Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau, advising him on the government's COVID-19 economic response.[78][79][80] Carney reportedly advised Trudeau on Canada's response to the COVID-19 pandemic

that is when the money printing started followed by the inflation nightmare

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/bank-canada-missteps-helped-fuel-todays-inflation

and this was accompanied by massive increases in already unsustainable debt

 

[WyattEarp]

yeah...real trustworthy. Don't get too mesmerized by credentials.

Do you know what they call a person who graduates at the bottom of their medical school class?
Doctor.

 

[Callmerey]

No offense, but I think a post like this is unfairly derogatory.
The entire forum is littered with prognosis.

If someone said Carney will guide the country in a smart and balanced manner and that Canada will get back on a healthy growth track, would you find it objectionable?

There it is, you said it- entire forum is “littered” with prognosis, but why?
I am not a sheep following the flock. I do not make assumptions and hate on somebody because everyone is doing so.
The guy just got in power, removed carbon tax even thou every other person was mentioning it’s a scam and he’ll put it back again. My energy bill is already reduced.

Let him do what he’s doing and not influence people with your “assumptions”

 

[Dutch Oven]

What people seen in Carney is beyond me.

I find Carney to be cringeworthy. I think even his closest supporters are put off by him. Look at and listen to the tentative and mixed reaction of the crowd to his "Who's ready....." preamble to his victory speech. Awkward! It's like he's been told to try make casual connection with his audience, but he has no idea how ordinary people talk to each other. It isn't the same as presenting an annual report to shareholders!

 

[Forzafonz]

Jordan Peterson is a junky with brain damage. You should run your life by doing exactly the opposite of what he suggests.

Meanwhile Jordan Peterson:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iZd4dfGs7c8

 

[seth gecko]

Hey John Larue - re post #92
Lots for me to try to cover there, and frankly, not really worth my time. But, a few things:
I only brought up Trudeau in context of the misleading ad the CPC aired during Erin Otoole's role as leader, and that was, what, the 2021 election?
News flash for you - the Liberals won that election, Otoole as least was able to retain his seat, (unlike some other dudes we know, eh), and, wait for it, TRUDEAU IS GONE NOW, so I really don't see any reason to talk about him anymore. If you think that's somehow defending his record, knock yourself out with that.
As for Liz Truss blaming Carney, well, as I said before, if he did such a shitty job, why was his term extended?

IMO, timelines are important to help keep things in context, you know, keep things honest. Maybe try it sometime.
For example this interview is from March14th 2025, the first day of Carneys tenure as Canadian PM, and a few days BEFORE that pathetic Truss/Beck smear job
Here's what Carneys boss at BoE has to say about him:
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6684453

Again, to be fair, there are legitimate critiques of his performance at the BoE, for example:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51851150
But that Truss/Beck shitshow just reeks to high heaven. I'd personally be embarassed to stoop that low, but hey, politics is a dirty business.
I hope you have a nice day & a wonderful life.

 

[WetSeeker]

Wrong
Carney was Trudeau's economic adviser since 2020



that is when the money printing started followed by the inflation nightmare

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/bank-canada-missteps-helped-fuel-todays-inflation

View attachment 435447
and this was accompanied by massive increases in already unsustainable debt

View attachment 435448

Why let the facts get in the way of a Liberals echo chamber?

 

[WetSeeker]

Meanwhile Jordan Peterson:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iZd4dfGs7c8

Liberals are incapable from seeing that their viewpoint is not shared by everyone, they are in their own private little echo chambers, surrounded by people that validate their "feelings"