Discreet Dolls

Laying Bare the Zionist Myth of Forced Exile

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
A brief excerpt from the "When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?" by Shlomo Sand from Tel Aviv University. Currently not available in English, a translated edition should be available in English this summer from Verso Press.

One comical fact is that the great exodus out of Egypt never happened. Another fascinating detail...Jews were rampant proselytizers.

"Sixty years after its foundation, Israel refuses to accept that it should exist for the sake of its citizens. For almost a quarter of the population, who are not regarded as Jews, this is not their state legally. At the same time, Israel presents itself as the homeland of Jews throughout the world, even if these are no longer persecuted refugees, but the full and equal citizens of other countries.

A global ethnocracy invokes the myth of the eternal nation, reconstituted on the land of its ancestors, to justify internal discrimination against its own citizens. It will remain difficult to imagine a new Jewish history while the prism of Zionism continues to fragment everything into an ethnocentric spectrum. But Jews worldwide have always tended to form religious communities, usually by conversion; they cannot be said to share an ethnicity derived from a unique origin and displaced over 20 centuries of wandering."

http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966952.html
 

gramage

New member
Feb 3, 2002
5,223
1
0
Toronto
Is the truth of a groups beliefs a requirement for them to be considered a group? No. Jesus doesn't have to have lived for Christians to be a group (I've heard arguments he didn't live actually.) All religion is a lie in my view, and all these bronze age books so laughable called inerrant are certainly not written by gods. Does this mean these groups are invalid as cultures? No, what they've done after coming together in their faiths is what makes them a culture. And that culture has a history in the region of the world they consider their cultural homeland and they have made a country there. While I am always disturbed by countries with theological foundations (Iran, Israel, Utah etc.) Israel is as valid as any one of them.

Sorry couldn't resist the mormon joke even if it was cheap.
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
landscaper said:
And the madras schools teach thing s differently?
Soooo....you are saying a zionist education is no different than a madrasah education?
 

gramage

New member
Feb 3, 2002
5,223
1
0
Toronto
gryfin said:
Soooo....you are saying a zionist education is no different than a madrasah education?

Both teach lies as truth, in that sense there is no difference.

But the Islamic lie (kill the infidel and the like) are far more dangerous lies.
 

landscaper

New member
Feb 28, 2007
5,752
0
0
gryfin said:
Soooo....you are saying a zionist education is no different than a madrasah education?
If you are actually capable of reading I you would actually be able to see the point in my post. The only one who is making the conection between the Madrasah and Zionist education is you.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,957
8
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
gryfin said:
One comical fact is that the great exodus out of Egypt never happened. Another fascinating detail...Jews were rampant proselytizers.
The Biblical one--who knows. The 1948-1967 Jewish exodus out of Egypt most certainly did happen. There were 80,000 of them in Egypt in 1948 and there are under 100 now.

This was part of the general exodus of Jews out of Arab lands. Jews of Arab descent who were a minority of the Jews in Israel in 1948 were a majority by 1967 as a result of Arab ethnic cleansing.

I think the events of ~2000 years ago are less significant than the events of the 20th century. Modern Israel is a state in which some 70% of the citizens of of Arab descent and indigenous to the region.

Only around 30% of Israel's population are immigrants from Europe and elsehwere...
 

The Houdini

Banned
Mar 18, 2008
1,306
0
0
gryfin said:
A zionist hissy fit when someone tells a different story than the version taught during a lifetime of brainwashing.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=jzIWoZq4UxA
And where do you think Muslims are derived from??? After all, Muslims believe in the same god as Jews. Who was here first, the Jew or the Muslim?

Even in your Quran it talks about Jews and Muslims being cousins. So what exactly is your point, that Moses didn't part the sea, that there were no 10 plagues and the exodus of the Jews. Fine I can accept that, along with Santa Claus and all the other playful tales.

Bottom line is, the Jews were here first before the Muslims and Christians. Therefore if anyone had a right to Israel, it's the Jews, they were there first.
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
gramage said:
Both teach lies as truth, in that sense there is no difference.

But the Islamic lie (kill the infidel and the like) are far more dangerous lies.
I don't think the Palestinians would agree. Nor do I. Nor do the numbers. Just look at recent events.

They've been on the receiving (and murderous) end of the racism that the zionist myth propagates for a long, long time.
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
landscaper said:
If you are actually capable of reading I you would actually be able to see the point in my post. The only one who is making the conection between the Madrasah and Zionist education is you.
I've read your post correctly. You are just not the brightest light and now realize you hung yourself.
 

Inferno

Vulvovaginarian
Mar 24, 2002
1,139
0
36
gryfin said:
A zionist hissy fit when someone tells a different story than the version taught during a lifetime of brainwashing.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=jzIWoZq4UxA
Can you imagine the reaction if a Muslim scholar came out with "new research" the "proved" that Muhammad wasn't really a prophet?

I doubt it would be one guy shouting objections in a lecture hall... It would be more like violent worldwide protests and a fatwa thrown in for good measure. And if the religious fanatics ever did find the scholar, they'd behead the guy on camera and send the tape to Al-Jazeera.

Yeah, I'll take a hissy fit and rational discourse over that option, any day.
 

gramage

New member
Feb 3, 2002
5,223
1
0
Toronto
gryfin said:
I don't think the Palestinians would agree. Nor do I. Nor do the numbers. Just look at recent events.

They've been on the receiving (and murderous) end of the racism that the zionist myth propagates for a long, long time.
Where in the book does it tell jews to kill muslims?

Your mistaking modern cultural conflicts with religous teachings. Jews fight to keep Israel safe and THERES! They're not always right but they aren't killing because god tells them to.

Islamic teachings include murdering anyone who leaves the faith, beating women who expose any skin in public, and if you die while killing non-muslims you get 72 virgins. To quote Bill Maher "promising pussy in the afterlife is the lowest thing I've ever heard in my entire life."

I don't respect religous education, but only one of these teachings scares me and makes me feel like peaceful coexistence may be impossible.
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
gramage said:
To quote Bill Maher "promising pussy in the afterlife is the lowest thing I've ever heard in my entire life."
Have you ever heard of something called "Heaven"? We teach it and it promises a lot more than "pussy" as you call it.

Of course, it ours, so it's not the lowest thing.
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
Inferno said:
Can you imagine the reaction if a Muslim scholar came out with "new research" the "proved" that Muhammad wasn't really a prophet?

I doubt it would be one guy shouting objections in a lecture hall... It would be more like violent worldwide protests and a fatwa thrown in for good measure. And if the religious fanatics ever did find the scholar, they'd behead the guy on camera and send the tape to Al-Jazeera.

Yeah, I'll take a hissy fit and rational discourse over that option, any day.
Well, the rational discourse is there in the link to Shlomo Sand's story. I've yet to read any rational discourse from you on it.
 

gramage

New member
Feb 3, 2002
5,223
1
0
Toronto
gryfin said:
Have you ever heard of something called "Heaven"? We teach it and it promises a lot more than "pussy" as you call it.

Of course, it ours, so it's not the lowest thing.
Heaven is a load of bullshit too. But handing out virgins in exchange for slaughtering non-muslims is lower.
 

Inferno

Vulvovaginarian
Mar 24, 2002
1,139
0
36
gryfin said:
Well, the rational discourse is there in the link to Shlomo Sand's story. I've yet to read any rational discourse from you on it.
All the rational discourse - and plenty of evidence refuting Sands' theory - can be found in the comments at the bottom of the article. Have YOU taken the time to read it, Mr. Cut-And-Paste?

If you had, you'd realize that everything Sands espouses is just a crock of promotional crap to sell his book.

How about responding to my point? How rational would the discourse be if the shoe were on the other foot and a Muslim had come out and denounced Islam as a sham?
 

gryfin

New member
Aug 30, 2001
9,632
0
0
gramage said:
Where in the book does it tell jews to kill muslims?

Your mistaking modern cultural conflicts with religous teachings. Jews fight to keep Israel safe and THERES! They're not always right but they aren't killing because god tells them to.

Islamic teachings include murdering anyone who leaves the faith, beating women who expose any skin in public, and if you die while killing non-muslims you get 72 virgins. To quote Bill Maher "promising pussy in the afterlife is the lowest thing I've ever heard in my entire life."

I don't respect religous education, but only one of these teachings scares me and makes me feel like peaceful coexistence may be impossible.
No, fanatical zionism is taught in Israel and in many places around the world. The Israeli government finances it. One of the most obvious example are the dozens of Hesder Yeshiva's, where Israel trains children, teenagers, and adults in a witches brew of religion and militarism. Many of the graduates go on to become paramilitaries in the West Bank (they lovingly call them "Settlers) or become part of the officer corps of the IDF.

One only has to look at the remarks of FM Livni, calling on Israeli Arabs to leave. Look at the acceptable discussion of populations transfer or other euphemism's for the same thing, such as "the demographic problem". Look at the attempt to ban Arab political parties. Look at the number of virulent racists that continually elected to the Knesset.

What's always behind it? The zionist ethos that Israel is a place for Jews and Jews first. Do you think there was any connection between that idea and all the Palestinians living in refugee camps rather than the homes and property they own within Israel?
 

gramage

New member
Feb 3, 2002
5,223
1
0
Toronto
gryfin said:
No, fanatical zionism is taught in Israel and in many places around the world. The Israeli government finances it. One of the most obvious example are the dozens of Hesder Yeshiva's, where Israel trains children, teenagers, and adults in a witches brew of religion and militarism. Many of the graduates go on to become paramilitaries in the West Bank (they lovingly call them "Settlers) or become part of the officer corps of the IDF.

One only has to look at the remarks of FM Livni, calling on Israeli Arabs to leave. Look at the acceptable discussion of populations transfer or other euphemism's for the same thing, such as "the demographic problem". Look at the attempt to ban Arab political parties. Look at the number of virulent racists that continually elected to the Knesset.

What's always behind it? The zionist ethos that Israel is a place for Jews and Jews first. Do you think there was any connection between that idea and all the Palestinians living in refugee camps rather than the homes and property they own within Israel?
Maybe I don't know enough about these schools, but I think the misstreatment or Arabs within Israel and in Palestine is more due to the bloodshed that has occured over the last several decades. You don't need a school to teach that hate when you've got parents who lost friends and saw busstops blown up by suicide bombers.

As I've said before I Israel reminds me of what I've read about former soldiers suffering post-traumatic stress, they can't control their responses as well as a normal person. That doesn't justify a full scale ground invasion over rockets being fired across the border (or a kidnapped soldier) but I understand where it comes from. The monstrous racist hate that I think fuels a lot of Hamas and other Islamic groups comes from schools that teach killing as a holy act.
 

Mia.Colpa

Persian Lover
Dec 6, 2005
4,496
0
0
gryfin said:
Have you ever heard of something called "Heaven"? We teach it and it promises a lot more than "pussy" as you call it.

Of course, it ours, so it's not the lowest thing.
What the hell do you call it if we call it pussy?

Now see, this is why you guys are mentally unstable, you're so brainwashed and actually believe that there is pussy waiting in heaven if you give your life up for blowing up Jews, among others.

Hey gryf, one thing I can never understand and maybe you can answer this for me. If it's taught in your schools and religion that heaven is so much more than pussy and a reward for blowing yourself up along with bystanders, then why won't your leaders blow themselves up first and lead by example, after all heaven is the ultimate reward isn't it????

Nooooooooooooooooooooo, they let the poor little guys and women blow themselves up, never the leaders. What hypocrisy. Plain gutless.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts