Linux Killed Firefox

[mtm2011]

Uggh, why? F18, and the updater seem to be 'uugh', it uses .rpm (which is a dead series of forks and patches), it actually tries to use Gnome 3, it's testing distribution rather notoriously eats kittens, and it's developer community has a lot of the problems Debian had 10 years ago.

I'd run Fedora if I had insured and licensed Red Hat systems, otherwise...

I'm a Debian dinosaur. I wouldn't recommend that much default 'vanilla', 'choice', and relative lack of hand holding for any newbie. (Though, if you have any experience, I'd suggest Debian.) With that being said, I would suggest Ubuntu, some kin of Ubuntu like Kubuntu, or some cousin of Ubuntu like Mint. It doesn't matter if you like gtk/gnome or qt/kde, so long as a system is easy to install, easy to update, has a decent community, and dumps a user into a desktop that is humanly usable without a desire for suicide. Stock Gnome 3 and Unity both tend to be rage inducing, and Fedora and stock Unbuntu have paid because of it.

My understanding is that rpm works just as well as deb and has been for a number of years now; I could be wrong.

I recommended Fedora for people who are interested in trying out a variety of GUIs, who want to be able to choose what to use as their GUI at install.

It's like the old days when you installed a distro and got choices, choices and more choices, except Fedora has simplfied it somewhat (I remember choosing from some 3,000 packages the first time I installed Mandrake).

I like Debian also. Ubuntu is alright, I've installed it on countless machines and am typing this on Ubuntu in Firefox over Oracle VM right now.

 

[WoodPeckr]

I started out on Fedora and liked it back in 2007. Got a book from the library on Fedora that included the install disc. Used it for awhile then went to Ubuntu when Dell did. Then experimented with openSUSE for awhile to see what KDE was all about before going back to Ubuntu. Played around with a couple other distros but still like Ubuntu best.

 

[SkyRider]

Took my laptop to a computer shop. They suspect the problem is that the LinuxMint O/S and the internal wireless card inside the HP laptop are not talking to each other. Hence, wireless is not working. They want $50 to resolve.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Did you burn your own install disc for LINUX MINT 14?
If yes, then why not do the same for Ubuntu to see if it will recognize your laptop wireless configuration better. You have a 7 year old laptop and back then many had wireless issues that most newer Linux distros have solved.

Back then I had some wireless issues but after Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) was released April 2008 there were seldom anymore wireles issues for me.

 

[SkyRider]

Did you burn your own install disc for LINUX MINT 14?
If yes, then why not do the same for Ubuntu to see if it will recognize your laptop wireless configuration better. You have a 7 year old laptop and back then many had wireless issues that most newer Linux distros have solved.

Back then I had some wireless issues but after Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) was released April 2008 there were seldom anymore wireles issues for me.

Yes, I downloaded LinuxMint 14 from the Internet and burned it to a DVD which I used to install on the laptop. Which Ubuntu do you recommend? I think the laptop was manufactured in 2006 and was originally installed with Vista which I couldn't use because my neighbor forgot the password.

 

[The Options Menu]

Yes, I downloaded LinuxMint 14 from the Internet and burned it to a DVD which I used to install on the laptop. Which Ubuntu do you recommend? I think the laptop was manufactured in 2006 and was originally installed with Vista which I couldn't use because my neighbor forgot the password.

Personally, I'd go with whatever the stock Ubuntu is. If Unity doesn't do it for you, you can point the package manager at the Kubuntu repositories, or still have easy access to whatever other desktop you prefer. Given that Mint has a Ubuntu / Debian base (AFAIK), switching and re-install probably won't do you much good, to be honest.

If Mint has a testing version, you could try grabbing a newer version of NetworkManager and the Kernel from there. That would be the network-manager package, and linux-image-<NEWEST VERSION>-<YOUR PLATFORM, the same as the installed version>. As was said, these days, most wireless chips should just work. Oh, you may want to do a search for packages with 'firmware' in the name. Look for a package that matches your wireless chip, you may want to check in a device manager or use 'lspci' for that.

On RPM: It's not that rpm 'doesn't work' at this point, so much as it's pretty much not developed beyond distro specific patches, and beyond the RPM format all of the actual package management software tends to vary per distro. On the deb side of things, there are different GUIs for package management, but .deb remains somewhat more robust (in failure and capabilities), the actual package management tends to use common tools, and while GUIs may come and go the core tools are still actively developed in a central way. In .deb land, you're always good to go with dpkg, apt-get, update-alternatives, no matter what GUIs happens to be there. In rpm land, you're on your own per distro after 'rpm' (which when used alone is a far more excellent way of blowing up your system than 'dpkg', IMHO).

 

[mtm2011]

Took my laptop to a computer shop. They suspect the problem is that the LinuxMint O/S and the internal wireless card inside the HP laptop are not talking to each other. Hence, wireless is not working. They want $50 to resolve.

Don't pay the $50, at least not yet.

What is the laptop make/model? We can try to search the net and see what the issues are with the wireless and Linux.

 

[SkyRider]

Don't pay the $50, at least not yet.
What is the laptop make/model? We can try to search the net and see what the issues are with the wireless and Linux.

The laptop is a Hewitt Packard Pavilion dv2000 manufactured around 2006 and originally installed with a Vista O/S. My neighbor forgot his password so I installed LinuxMint 14. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[The Options Menu]

My neighbor forgot his password

To the wireless?!?!?

RESET THE ROUTER!

That has nothing to do with your OS (Windows, OSX, or even Amiga).

Then look up the online setup instructions for the router. You don't need the Windows software that came with it. The router's website will tell you how to connect to the router via a web browser. The router itself likely has a wizard for secure wifi. The router is probably at: http://192.168.0.1 or http://192.168.1.1 . The reson you need to reset it is so you can log in with the factory default username and password. (Often some combination of admin and 'nothing', or 'nothing' and admin.)

After you reset the router, and login, you'll want to give it a name, set up secure wireless with a name, and change the admin password.

With a minimum of offence-- The router is just another computer. It has a CPU, RAM, OS (updated via 'firmware'). Modifying another computer, because you can't access a given computer (the router), really won't get you anyplace. If you lose a wireless password:
-Uninstall any crap software you put on your computer from the router's manufacturer.
-Look up the browser setup instructions for that model of router.
-Reset the router.
-Follow the setup instructions to give the router a name, set up secure wireless, and to change admin passwords.
-While you're there you may want to check for firmware updates for the router.

No need to mess with the OS. (Unless it's to uninstall crap AND pointless software from the people who made the router.)

 

[SkyRider]

To the wireless?!?!?

Actually, he forgot his VISTA password so I can't even access the laptop at all. He said the laptop was sitting unused in his basement for years. Hence, I installed LinuxMint 14 so the laptop would have an operating system. I'm going to try LinuxMint 12 which is at least a year closer in age to the 6 year old laptop.

 

[The Options Menu]

To the wireless?!?!?

Actually, he forgot his VISTA password so I can't even access the laptop at all. He said the laptop was sitting unused in his basement for years. Hence, I installed LinuxMint 14 so the laptop would have an operating system. I'm going to try LinuxMint 12 which is at least a year closer in age to the 6 year old laptop.

OK, pardon the freakout.

No, no, no, no...

Don't go older. In fact, don't re-install. Linux has every driver possible, that can be built into the linux kernel, built into the kernel. These thing literally don't leave the kernel until there is no working hardware left. Anything not built into the kernel won't be better in an older version. Unless a new version introduced a new bug, your almost never better going back. (Or re-installing-- You can literally bring a linux box back from anything short of massive physical failure of a core component.)

I'll look up the Hewitt Packard Pavilion dv2000... Gimmy a few.

edit: the dv 2000 page is: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...=135&prodTypeId=321957&prodSeriesId=1817067#4

Looking up the wireless chipset now.

 

[The Options Menu]

According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Pavilion_dv2000

it uses Intel PRO/Wireless

I don't have that chip on anything at hand.

Can you install:
firmware-ipw2x00

and

firmware-iwlwifi

They'll be in your package manager. Just search for 'firmware'. Then reboot. Then try your wireless setup via networkmanager.

The drivers for those chipsets seem mature... Maybe the firmware's just not installed.

If that doesn't do it, google for 'Intel Pro Wireless Linux' and start reading.

 

[Dick Head]

not sure if it's mentioned or not, but bastard google and its chrome killed firefox

they just want to take over internet at all cost

 

[SkyRider]

Thanks, Options Menu. I saw your last two posts after I installed LinuxMint 12. When I click to turn on wireless a message says "Firmware Missing". The firmware seems to be the problem.

 

[The Options Menu]

Thanks, Options Menu. I saw your last two posts after I installed LinuxMint 12. When I click to turn on wireless a message says "Firmware Missing". The firmware seems to be the problem.

Under Debian, which Mint is related to, one of those two firmware packs should do it if it is indeed an Intel Pro Wireless chip.

You should be able to change your /etc/apt/sources.list in a text editor, or package manager, point it at Mint 14, and update everything in place back up to Mint 14.

The steps wold be:
-Add Mint 14 to /etc/apt/sources.lst
-'apt-get update'
-'apt-get dist-upgrade'

Mind you, you should read any errata file for Mint 13, and Mint 14 to see if there's any special steps involved.

At this point you might consider the big re-install of Mint 14, because you're a pro at it by now, and then you'd have a stock Mint 14, where a dist-upgrade might leave you with a different package setup.

A big, big, big thing to remember under any Linux / BSD is that a complet re-install is almost never neccisary, and going back is generally considered bad (as you expose yourself to the bugs and security holes of the past).

PROTIP: When you install the OS put /home on it's own partition. Then whenever you install a new Linux, even a new distro, you won't lose your user settings and personal files. Just re-create the users and adjust the permissions (chown and chmod, or use your filemanger's GUI) if needed.

 

[SkyRider]

For a non-Geek like me, this firmware thing sounds really complicated. Would buying a USB wireless adapter be a simpler solution?

 

[WoodPeckr]

For a non-Geek like me, this firmware thing sounds really complicated. Would buying a USB wireless adapter be a simpler solution?

Not if firmware seems to be the problem. Firmware has to be corrected on that old laptop.

 

[SkyRider]

Not if firmware seems to be the problem. Firmware has to be corrected on that old laptop.

Ok, looks like firmware has to be fixed.

 

[The Options Menu]

Ok, looks like firmware has to be fixed.

The firmware was separated out of the Debian kernel because the code and licence information for a lot of it couldn't be identified. The fix is dead easy-- just fir up your package manger (synaptic?) and search for all packages with the word firmware in the name. Install any firmware blobs for hardware you have (like the two Intel ones that seem to be for your wireless).

Once you install the package once, it will update with everything else.

The firmware situation is one of those things where Debian it technically, legally, and ethically correct, but that causes problems for new users. It's similar to Debian calling 'Firefox' 'Iceweasel'-- The Firefox trademark agreement clearly states that unless you get it from approved servers you can't call it Firefox. This was to prevent malware companies from shipping special malware filled versions of Firefox. The Mozilla / Firefox have never used this against legit Linux Distros, but that also won't grant exceptions. So Debian did what it had to do. In the case of the firmware blobs, it's not a trademark thing, but the fact that they often don't have the code available for them in a GPL v2 compatible manner, so bundling them with the kernel is a legal minefield (and against Debian free software ethics).

Many Debian derivatives have opted to do things like bundling the firmware with the kernel, and calling 'Firefox' 'Firefox' in the name of user ease. But legally (and ethically) Debian wasn't batshit out to lunch on these things...

But that does mean one big lesson for Debian derivatives:
If a bit of hardware fails mysteriously, doesn't work, or you get phantom reboots, always check to see if you have the right firmware blobs installed. I think there are some tools to help with this, and kernel upgrades will gripe about potentially missing firmware, but that's the way it is.

PROTIP:
If you type 'lspci' it will list all of the devices on the bus. Handy for figuring out who made what. Most of the system info and settings tools use this at some level in listing devices.