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Linux vs Windows

larry

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Oct 19, 2002
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You guys are really reaching to put forward these "benefits" of linux. I have used it, I could use it again and if fact, if there's an app that only runs on it that it want, I'll install it on a spare machine right away. right now, i don't see any reason. same with mac. these systems are for people who
1. know too much
2. don't know much

i'm in the middle.
 

kenpachi

Member
Oct 13, 2010
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You guys are really reaching to put forward these "benefits" of linux. I have used it, I could use it again and if fact, if there's an app that only runs on it that it want, I'll install it on a spare machine right away. right now, i don't see any reason. same with mac. these systems are for people who
1. know too much
2. don't know much

i'm in the middle.
If you're in the middle, go with windows. Easy to use and hassle free.
 

SkyRider

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My friend said I should start with LINUX because it is free and he is familiar with the O/S so can help when I need help. Also, he said I can always switch to Windows 7 later if I don't like LINUX.
 

WoodPeckr

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If you're in the middle, go with windows. Easy to use and hassle free.
They are all 'Easy to use and hassle free' once you get used to them.
Most peeps get comfortable with one and don't want to change.

I used to feel that way with Windows, thought it was the best and since >90% of the world runs M$, figured that and the Market proves it!

Then I got curious about Linux. Saw Linux did a few neat things. At first it was WTF!!! This is really a strange weird OS. That was because I was so used to and comfortable with XP which IMHO is still a rock solid OS. But then the more I used Linux the easier and better it seemed. Linux is just constructed and laid out better than Windows. I noticed all the advantages detailed in Post #26 and what The Options Menu listed in his Post #40. They showed how Linux is a superior OS compared to Windows and just does/handles things better.

OS X does many of the same things as Linux since it is Unix/Linux based however you pay a premium for it. Therefore the choice was simple for me. I'll stick with FREE Linux till something better comes along.....;)
 

WoodPeckr

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My friend said I should start with LINUX because it is free and he is familiar with the O/S so can help when I need help. Also, he said I can always switch to Windows 7 later if I don't like LINUX.
Your friend is correct!

Even better do a dual boot, so you can keep whatever Windows OS you have just as it is now, while you learn Linux at your own pace. This way you always have M$ to go to if you get stuck while learning Linux. This is the way I started on Linux. You then have 2 OSs to use. Even after using Linux for ~6 yrs all my PCs are still dual boot systems. It's just that now M$ is very seldom used.

Besides having your friend, the Ubuntu Forums are excellent for getting help on anything Linux. In the beginning I used them a lot, now not so much. In fact now I help others starting out in Linux who also want to break free from M$ & Apple.....:cool:
 

SkyRider

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Even better do a dual boot, so you can keep whatever Windows OS you have just as it is now,
This IBM computer doesn't have an O/S right now because it was a server in my neighbor's daughter's office. So, I need to install a consumer O/S. A friend of a friend said to install LINUX.

My old HP computer is 8 years old, Pent 4 and XP. The IBM is 4 years old and Core 2 Dual but needs an O/S.
 

The Options Menu

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My old HP computer is 8 years old, Pent 4 and XP. The IBM is 4 years old and Core 2 Dual but needs an O/S.
Linux can't work miracles, but I'm typing this on a 1.5 Ghz Celeron with 512 Megs of RAM and a dog slow drive... With a full KDE desktop.

-The biggest 'boost' for Linux is that you don't have to run a heavy handed Virus Scanner and Firewall. Those are the two things that eat a lot of memory and CPU.
-Whatever Linux you choose to install, try to install as few daemons / servers as possible, and disable the ones you don't need. Google and your distro documentation is your friend. You really don't need to be running Apache.
-When setting up Linux, when you set up the drive, look for a way to set the 'noatime' option for a partition. (This basically disables marking the last time a file was accessed. With atime, you turn every read into a read and write which is much slower. It's been called one of the biggest Unix design mistakes of all time.)
-You'll likely be running GNOME or KDE as your desktop. Look for ways to turn of animations, window effects, and file indexers. (Once again google if you have to.)
-Instead of GNOME or KDE you could choose a lighter desktop environment like LXDE.

The HP computer will probably need a fair bit of the above, the core duo laptop will probably be fine with less of the above since it doesn't have to run bloaty Windows, with a bloaty Firewall, and a bloaty Virus Scanner.

@Woodpecker-- Have you tried setting 'noatime' in your /etc/fstab for your partitions? It really is a massive (double digit) performance gain. There are only a handful of pieces of software that rely on the atime (none of which you probably run). You could also try relatime which is a less strict atime. On slower disks, like a lot of laptops, you'll be shocked at the performance boost.
 

WoodPeckr

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Woodpecker-- Have you tried setting 'noatime' in your /etc/fstab for your partitions? It really is a massive (double digit) performance gain. There are only a handful of pieces of software that rely on the atime (none of which you probably run). You could also try relatime which is a less strict atime. On slower disks, like a lot of laptops, you'll be shocked at the performance boost.
Interesting, did not know that.

My main PC is a Dell i7, 2.8 GHz w 8GB DDR3 RAM that flies running W7 & Ubuntu as it is with no strain or pain.
My 4+ yr old dual core AMD laptop 2.0 GHz w 4GB RAM, still runs great but could benefit some from that.

Do you have a link to look into this and check it out?
 

SkyRider

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I figure the shelf life of my 8 year old HP Pent 4 XP is maybe another 2-3 years. Hence, my plan is to migrate over to the 4 year old IBM Core 2 Dual. A lot of info in this thread.
 

sailorsix

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Sep 25, 2006
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Linux can't work miracles, but I'm typing this on a 1.5 Ghz Celeron with 512 Megs of RAM and a dog slow drive... With a full KDE desktop.

-The biggest 'boost' for Linux is that you don't have to run a heavy handed Virus Scanner and Firewall. Those are the two things that eat a lot of memory and CPU.
-Whatever Linux you choose to install, try to install as few daemons / servers as possible, and disable the ones you don't need. Google and your distro documentation is your friend. You really don't need to be running Apache.
-When setting up Linux, when you set up the drive, look for a way to set the 'noatime' option for a partition. (This basically disables marking the last time a file was accessed. With atime, you turn every read into a read and write which is much slower. It's been called one of the biggest Unix design mistakes of all time.)
-You'll likely be running GNOME or KDE as your desktop. Look for ways to turn of animations, window effects, and file indexers. (Once again google if you have to.)
-Instead of GNOME or KDE you could choose a lighter desktop environment like LXDE.

The HP computer will probably need a fair bit of the above, the core duo laptop will probably be fine with less of the above since it doesn't have to run bloaty Windows, with a bloaty Firewall, and a bloaty Virus Scanner.

@Woodpecker-- Have you tried setting 'noatime' in your /etc/fstab for your partitions? It really is a massive (double digit) performance gain. There are only a handful of pieces of software that rely on the atime (none of which you probably run). You could also try relatime which is a less strict atime. On slower disks, like a lot of laptops, you'll be shocked at the performance boost.
You could have typed that in the fake latin font and I would have understood just as much. I have been using PCs since the first XT I bought that had DOS and Lotus back in the days when the entire Lotus program fit on one of those 5" black floppy diskettes. I do not consider myself a PC brainiac nor am I a Luddite. I just do not have the time or inclination to delve into stuff like you guys have.

Unlike Woody ("Besides having your friend, the Ubuntu Forums are excellent for getting help on anything Linux. In the beginning I used them a lot, now not so much." ) I am not going to scour forums trying to find solutions to make my PC work. I can start the Windows install disk and walk away for an hour until it is done.

Glad you have mastered it. Someday when I have more time and have read all the fiction and history books on my "to do" list I may try to do the same.

Cheers
 

djk

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Apr 8, 2002
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the hobby needs more capitalism
You could have typed that in the fake latin font and I would have understood just as much. I have been using PCs since the first XT I bought that had DOS and Lotus back in the days when the entire Lotus program fit on one of those 5" black floppy diskettes. I do not consider myself a PC brainiac nor am I a Luddite. I just do not have the time or inclination to delve into stuff like you guys have.

Unlike Woody ("Besides having your friend, the Ubuntu Forums are excellent for getting help on anything Linux. In the beginning I used them a lot, now not so much." ) I am not going to scour forums trying to find solutions to make my PC work. I can start the Windows install disk and walk away for an hour until it is done.

Glad you have mastered it. Someday when I have more time and have read all the fiction and history books on my "to do" list I may try to do the same.

Cheers
Opportunity cost.
 

WoodPeckr

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I can start the Windows install disk and walk away for an hour until it is done.
Well I do the same with Linux only it takes 20-30 minutes and that includes all OS updates & printer install.....:wink:
 

The Options Menu

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Sep 13, 2005
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You could have typed that in the fake latin font and I would have understood just as much. I have been using PCs since the first XT I bought that had DOS and Lotus back in the days when the entire Lotus program fit on one of those 5" black floppy diskettes. I do not consider myself a PC brainiac nor am I a Luddite. I just do not have the time or inclination to delve into stuff like you guys have.
You really don't have to... Any modern popular distro should basically 'just work' on any semi new hardware. (At least as well as a non-vendor copy of Windows.) The question I was responding to was about an 8 year old HP PC, to install a modern anything on that requires some work... (Though the 4 year old core duo should be fine.)
 

The Options Menu

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Sep 13, 2005
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Interesting, did not know that.

My main PC is a Dell i7, 2.8 GHz w 8GB DDR3 RAM that flies running W7 & Ubuntu as it is with no strain or pain.
My 4+ yr old dual core AMD laptop 2.0 GHz w 4GB RAM, still runs great but could benefit some from that.

Do you have a link to look into this and check it out?
@WoodPeckr - noatime explained: http://openrent.blogspot.com/2006/11/noatime-explained.html

This issue is as old as UNIX-- Many consider it a fundamental flaw. setting 'noatime' (or 'relatime') on anything that has a spinning disk gives big gains. The only time it's a bad idea is when writes are very, very, cheap. An example:

my /etc/fstab on a 5 year old laptop:

Code:
# <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>
proc            /proc           proc    defaults        0       0
# / was on /dev/sda2 during installation
UUID=945adb51-dc82-40f7-b89c-1f32bef8e563 /               ext4    noatime,user_xattr,errors=remount-ro 0       1
# swap was on /dev/sda3 during installation
UUID=c2de2eae-fcc2-447c-b542-ee81f833ab29 none            swap    sw              0       0
/dev/scd0       /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 user,noauto     0       0
It's literally the easiest optimization you'll ever do. Change fstab, then umount / mount or just reboot. It's any option for (pretty much any common) linux native FS, and it gives a big gain.
 

SkyRider

Banned
Mar 31, 2009
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The question I was responding to was about an 8 year old HP PC, to install a modern anything on that requires some work... (Though the 4 year old core duo should be fine.)
I will be retiring the 8 year old HP Pent 4 XP in 2-3 years and then switch over completely to the 4 year old IBM Core 2 Duo with either LINUX or Window 7 O/S. I heard that Microsoft will stop supporting XP sometime in 2014.
 

WoodPeckr

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I will be retiring the 8 year old HP Pent 4 XP in 2-3 years and then switch over completely to the 4 year old IBM Core 2 Duo with either LINUX or Window 7 O/S. I heard that Microsoft will stop supporting XP sometime in 2014.
In 2-3 years W8 will be the big thing....unless it ends up being another Vista.
W8 will be out in a few months and looks to be a big departure from W7.
Windows 8 Features And Release Date

W7 is a definite improvement over XP but I still use and like XP probably from using it the longest and being the most familiar with XP.
 

WoodPeckr

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@WoodPeckr - noatime explained: http://openrent.blogspot.com/2006/11/noatime-explained.html

This issue is as old as UNIX-- Many consider it a fundamental flaw. setting 'noatime' (or 'relatime') on anything that has a spinning disk gives big gains. The only time it's a bad idea is when writes are very, very, cheap.

It's literally the easiest optimization you'll ever do. Change fstab, then umount / mount or just reboot. It's any option for (pretty much any common) linux native FS, and it gives a big gain.
Did a little digging and research and came up with this from an Uber-Ubuntu geek who claims the latest Ubuntu versions have taken this into account and made those modifications. He claims....

This is probably a waste of time these days as the default atime setting for Ubuntu is now relatime without it being specified in fstab. This updates the file info only if changes are made, not every time it is read; noatime means that the file info is never changed, even when the file is changed, which is why it can cause problems in a few cases..

The difference in performance is most unlikely to be noticeable in any way, and certainly not significant, so don't bother.
 

WoodPeckr

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W7 has been out over 2 yrs.
 

zorlack

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Jul 7, 2010
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Would like to get your opinions on LINUX MINT 12 versus WINDOWS 7. A friend of a friend is a LINUX believer.
hiya SkyRider, I still use Linux Mint 11 LXDE & Linux Mint Debian Edition on one computer... I have not mucked around with 12.

you should learn Debian...you can grab a live ISO of LXDE or XFCE desktop versions to try here:
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

or installer here, I like Debian especially for netbooks/laptops...installer can setup LVM/LUKS encrypted partitions, even for /tmp files and all.
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.4/amd64/iso-cd/debian-6.0.4-amd64-xfce+lxde-CD-1.iso

later
 
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