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Man arrested for wearing PEACE t-shirt

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mypussykat

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Man Arrested for Wearing Peace T-Shirt

A man was charged with trespassing in a mall after he refused to take off a T-shirt that said "Peace on Earth" and "Give peace a chance." Mall security approached Stephen Downs, 61, and his 31-year-old son, Roger, on Monday night after they were spotted wearing the T-shirts at Crossgates Mall in a suburb of Albany, the men said. The two said they were asked to remove the shirts made at a store there, or leave the mall. They refused.

See link: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20030305/ap_on_re_us/mall_activists_5
 
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CyberGoth

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shades of germany in the early 1930s...
 
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midLifeCrisis

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From "Yahoo" linked article
Monday's arrest came less than three months after about 20 peace activists wearing similar T-shirts were told to leave by mall security and police.
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Actually, if one reads the entire article, you will learn that they the man was arrested for not leaving private property when the owner asked them to. He was given every chance to avoid arrest and make his political statements outside, but was eager to garner exactly the kind of attention that he is getting here.

One may also learn that his t-shirt was, basically, the uniform of a large group of people who had caused problems in the mall a few months prior.

Why is it that so many of those people who scream about freedom of speech have absolutely no conception of what the phrase means? If you start yelling "Fuck Bush" on the street outside my house, I will be very upset if anyone interferes with you. If you start yelling "Fuck Bush" in my living room, you'll be asked to leave in very short order and charged with trespassing if you don't get the hell out instantly.
 
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TheNiteHwk

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Just trying to avoid possible problems....

midLifeCrisis said:
One may also learn that his t-shirt was, basically, the uniform of a large group of people who had caused problems in the mall a few months prior.
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Exactly... I thought the same.
 
M

mypussykat

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Then maybe they should stop selling the shirt in the mall?

MPK
 
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Bboy

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MLC - very well put. Maybe the amendment should be rewriten to include the phrase "the responsible application of free speech."
 
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midLifeCrisis

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Bboy said:
Maybe the amendment should be rewriten to include the phrase "the responsible application of free speech."
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No - "free speech" is fine and free speech is what has made this part of the world a good place to live.

It is not the only law that is, or should be, on the books. It simply means that the state cannot use all its resources against you simply for your political beliefs. In this case, the state was forced into using this power to protect property rights. "Your freedom to swing your fist ends where the other fellow's nose begins."

I have a Polish friend who moved here after grabbing the first chance he had after martial law was imposed following the first wave of Solidarity strikes, who told me a few stories about what free speech really means.

"Russians" is Polish slang for a certain style of perogies. A friend of his had a t-shirt made up which said "I hate Russians" on the front and "Perogies" on the back.

He was not asked to leave the mall. He was not told that he was free to walk up and down outside the Russian Embassy wearing his shirt and screaming "Fuck Andropov". He was just given a three year jail sentence, end of story.

Originally posted by mypussykat
Then maybe they should stop selling the shirt in the mall?
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I eagerly await your next argument, that the mall's pharmacy should be prohibited from selling condoms.
 
C

CyberGoth

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state sponsored censorship is dangerous
 
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mypussykat

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This is a situation where over zealous security officers let the situation escalate way beyond what was necessary. The men bought their shirts in the mall. They went shopping in the mall. There was no mention that they attempted to incite a riot or participate in a demonstration. It was not mentioned that they were connected to the original protesters in the mall. I fail to see how property rights needed to be protected in this scenario. I commend the guy for sticking to his principles.

MPK
 
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midLifeCrisis

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mypussykat said:
I fail to see how property rights needed to be protected in this scenario.
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Since it's not your property, nobody really cares whether you see it or not.

Do you intend to send me a list of who I may and may not invite as guests in my living room?
 
L

luckyjackson

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Aug 19, 2001
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I agree, very well expressed MLC.

This reminds me of the idiot who cried "Free Speech", when NYC police did not allow him to distribute some kind of controversial leaflet, (I don't remember exactly what it was), on the site of Ground Zero. Talk about inciting a riot.

Obviously wearing a t-shirt is harmless. If you wear the same t-shirt worn by those who've made asses of themselves by breaking the law - then you're asking for it.
 
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northerner

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I can't understand how anyone can stick up for the mall security in this case. The guys were just wearing t-shirts advocating peace. There was nothing offensive about it and they weren't creating a disturbance.

Americans should be more concerned about democracy at home then bringing so-called democracy to Iraq.
 
Z

zog

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mypussykat said:
Then maybe they should stop selling the shirt in the mall?
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Though some have ridiculed it, this is a valid point!

Why is it OK for the mall to profit from the sale of this shirt but then not allow it to be worn on the premises?

It don't care if other people wearing this shirt caused trouble in the past, if these indivisuals were not disrupting the busness and customers of the mall, then it was an over-reaction to throw them out.

If the words on th T-shirt were actually rude or offensive, I would agree with these actions. However, there seems to be a very strong pro-war sentiment in some parts of the United States and, while these are fair and valid beliefs, the more peace-orriented view is also valid and should not be quashed.

Zog.
 
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kwong_1978

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Jan 2, 2003
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I advocate the right of the mall to boot this guy out with the same gusto I would advocate my rights to boot anyone out of my house.

Midlife, I totally agree with you INRE property rights.
 
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mypussykat

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Jul 23, 2002
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More info

'Peace' T-shirt gets man arrested

Wednesday, March 5, 2003 Posted: 11:18 AM EST (1618 GMT)

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- A lawyer was arrested late Monday and charged with trespassing at a public mall in the state of New York after refusing to take off a T-shirt advocating peace that he had just purchased at the mall.

According to the criminal complaint filed Monday, Stephen Downs was wearing a T-shirt bearing the words "Give Peace A Chance" that he had just purchased from a vendor inside the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, near Albany.

"I was in the food court with my son when I was confronted by two security guards and ordered to either take off the T-shirt or leave the mall," said Downs.

When Downs refused the security officers' orders, police from the town of Guilderland were called and he was arrested and taken away in handcuffs, charged with trespassing "in that he knowingly enter[ed] or remain[ed] unlawfully upon premises,"
the complaint read.

Downs said police tried to convince him he was wrong in his actions by refusing to remove the T-shirt because the mall "was like a private house and that I was acting poorly.

Calls to the Guilderland police and district attorney, Anthony Cardona and to officials at the mall were not returned for comment. Downs is due back in court for a hearing on March 17 and he could face up to a year in prison if convicted.




Copyright 2003 Reuters.
 
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Mrs_Stiffler

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Mar 6, 2003
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In a somewhat related vein, the American Screen Actor's Guild is considering blacklisting performers who speak out publicly against the war.

Shades of 50s McCarthyism?
 
G

Groucho

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Kind of reminds me of the New Hampshire guy a bunch of years ago who got arrested for taping over the "Live Free or Die" slogan on his license plate.
 
C

Cool Dude

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Feb 25, 2002
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I doubt it but,

Mrs_Stiffler said:
In a somewhat related vein, the American Screen Actor's Guild is considering blacklisting performers who speak out publicly against the war.
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Pia Zadora and David Hasselhoff will be thrilled to hear that. :)
 
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