Man with knife on streetcar at Dundas and Grace, shot by police

[MayDay Malone]

Sorry but they are even trained to defuse situations too. He didn't apply his full training. Another ex-cop that analyzed the video questioned a few things that Morcillo did.

It's as if Morcillo is a robot that can't reason if what may have been a threat is still a threat.

Absolutely they are trained to defuse situations however this was a clearly unstable and uncooperative suspect. They ordered him not to move, warned him they would shoot if he did:

officers are trained that at 20 to 30 feet a person with a weapon can close in on them and cause serious harm. In another video showing a different angle Yatim can be seen taking a step forward before he is shot and crumples to the ground.

“You shoot until the threat has stopped,” Valois said. Officers are not trained to shoot a weapon out of someone’s hand — something Valois said is next to impossible. They also aren’t trained to shoot out knees or other extremities. Officers aim for the largest “centre of mass,” generally a person’s torso.

“The concept is to incapacitate the threat,” said Rick Parent, also a former police officer of 30 years in B.C. who now teaches in the police studies program at Simon Fraser University. That usually takes a least a couple of rounds, Parent said, possibly four or more. “That’s what they’re trained to do.”

Forcillo only opened fire after Yatim moved forward (after being ordered not to). He fired 3 shots, he did not unload 9 in succession as many seem to believe. Yatim was still not incapacitated as police did not yet converge on him. A few seconds later, Forcillo fires 6 more shots. At that time police move onto the streetcar. There are shouts to drop the knife implying Yatim still held and was still perceived to be a risk to the officers. Another officer, a higher ranking supervising officer no less, feels the need to taser Yatim which again suggests that he was still perceived to be a threat.

 

[larry]

Absolutely they are trained to defuse situations however this was a clearly unstable and uncooperative suspect. They ordered him not to move, warned him they would shoot if he did:






Forcillo only opened fire after Yatim moved forward (after being ordered not to). He fired 3 shots, he did not unload 9 in succession as many seem to believe. Yatim was still not incapacitated as police did not yet converge on him. A few seconds later, Forcillo fires 6 more shots. At that time police move onto the streetcar. There are shouts to drop the knife implying Yatim still held and was still perceived to be a risk to the officers. Another officer, a higher ranking supervising officer no less, feels the need to taser Yatim which again suggests that he was still perceived to be a threat.

yep, that will be the cover story.

 

[blackrock13]

yep, that will be the cover story.

So it's not true?

 

[basketcase]

This is absolutely not true, and the police in the video show no concern about Yatim even thinking about driving off. ...

I saw two interviews on the news that said the driving system was still engaged. Yes, the police didn't seem particularly concerned about it but the kid with the knife wasn't jumping into the drivers seat at the time.

 

[basketcase]

The first three shots, ok. SY moved forward with the knife, was told not to, the rest is history. The next six shots, and the tasering seem pretty excessive, especially since SY appeared to be to be incapacitated. We will just have to wait what the inquiry finds, I guess.

So if the kid was mortally wounded from the first three shots would there be as much uproar?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I wonder which post got bammab007 banned

 

[GPIDEAL]

So if the kid was mortally wounded from the first three shots would there be as much uproar?

Probably not. But all it takes is one shot, then wait and see.

 

[GPIDEAL]

no. but prob one of the only ones here that has been threatened with a weapon. your experience in this type if situation?

So what?

 

[GPIDEAL]

Absolutely they are trained to defuse situations however this was a clearly unstable and uncooperative suspect. They ordered him not to move, warned him they would shoot if he did:

Forcillo only opened fire after Yatim moved forward (after being ordered not to). He fired 3 shots, he did not unload 9 in succession as many seem to believe. Yatim was still not incapacitated as police did not yet converge on him. A few seconds later, Forcillo fires 6 more shots. At that time police move onto the streetcar. There are shouts to drop the knife implying Yatim still held and was still perceived to be a risk to the officers. Another officer, a higher ranking supervising officer no less, feels the need to taser Yatim which again suggests that he was still perceived to be a threat.

One move forward. So what? He stopped after taking one step forward. Why take 3 shots even? Jesus. The cop didn't want to look like a pussy. His ego got in the way. They should've been talking to Sammy instead of escalating it tit for tat when it wasn't necessary. It's not like he had a hostage or was close enough to harm Morcillo.

Morcillo gave him an ultimatum but the kid wasn't thinking straight (despite not being an immediate threat to Morcillo). They had to at least try using 'white gloves' before applying lethal force.

If Morcillo descended down the steps with knife in hand, then shoot or step back and wait before finally shooting.

Then shooting him six more times when he's down. What a farking joke. He probably would've passed out. He couldn't wait after the 3rd shot? He was lying down. He was lying down. Can you people see that?

 

[red]

No he was actually joking. He thinks the victim posed an absolute threat to the cops life and the public at large at the time that he was confined to an empty streetcar. He thinks he's in Nam shooting at the enemy. Maybe he's suffering from PTSD.

i know. i was making fun of him

 

[red]

I wonder which post got bammab007 banned

I heard he was posting with a knife in his hand

 

[GPIDEAL]

So it's not true?

Except the part where it says that after 3 shots and falling to the ground, that he was still perceived to be a threat (what a crock of shit).

Unless he pulled a gun from his pocket, he was only a threat to Const. Joe Morcillo's bruised and rattled ego.

 

[GPIDEAL]

I heard he was posting with a knife in his hand

Well, at least he didn't get shot.

 

[red]

Well, at least he didn't get shot.

i wonder.

 

[rhuarc29]

Once again, an officer is handed a paid vacation as retribution for questionable police work.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Once again, an officer is handed a paid vacation as retribution for questionable police work.

Being suspended with pay is due to being innocent until proven guilty. Due process requires that he is paid pending the outcome of the investigation. You can't discipline him until that process is over.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I think he's also pretty much fucked his career now. Moving up to staff sergeant or higher is probably unlikely, nobody wants a hothead at important positions

 

[fuji]

have you ever been in an army? been shot at? shot at anyone? i have seen firs hand a man with 4 shots taken and he still got up and fired 2 rounds off at a passing jeep. and the copa still didnt kniw what this dude had on him.
and yes.. i have been involved in all of the above. if you havent... thanks for the bleeding hearts... they do shit in the real world.

Sorry but this is not the army. The police are only authorized to use lethal force to stop a clear and present threat. That was the case for the first three shots but it appears not the final six.

He was on the ground legs toward the shooter. Sure if he got back in his feet shoot him again, but he didn't, and lying on the floor like that he was not an immediate threat.

This nonsense about what he might have had is irrelevant. You can't shoot people for purely speculative reasons. Now if he started pulling some sort of object from his waistband the becomes a threat again, but I have seen no indication he did anything like that.

The cops continuing to yell drop the knife on the contrary indicates that was still in his hands.

What clenched it for me is that the cop stopped to adjust his aim lower to hit him when he was down. Had he fired nine in a row it would be less incriminating. But he stopped, paused, adjusted to the guy being down, and resumed firing.

That means he knew he was down and shot him anyway.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

The Sun hints at the cop being on steroids.

Being a gymrat myself, I know it would be very difficult to go from 140 lbs bodyweight to 220 pounds, and also increase your bench press to 425 pounds without some serious juice!

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/08/0...in-ttc-shooting-had-interest-in-weightlifting

James Forcillo, cop in TTC shooting, had interest in weightlifting

A weightlifter, former football player and a husband and father.

A Toronto Police source said every aspect of Const. James Forcillo's background and career will be scrutinized.

"The commanders and senior officers are shocked by what happened," said the insider.

The SIU is investigating the incident in which Forcillo has been named as the subject officer in the shooting death of Sammy Yatim.

The 18-year-old was shot at nine times Friday after an alleged incident where he is said to be brandishing a knife.

Meanwhile, a TPSB source told the Sun, Chief Bill Blair has been urged to delve into every aspect of this incident from the shooting to the supervision to the training to the securing of the crime scene.

"The board is taking this very serious," said the source.

Other than its previous statement expressing condolences to Yatim's family, TPSB Chair Dr. Alok Mukherjee said "the law prevents all of us from making any comments on matters that are the subject of the investigation" but did acknowledge "these are difficult days."

Meanwhile, a post on the Internet goes into James Forcillo's interest in high school in weightlifting and his partnership with a friend in owning a gym.

And of a desire of becoming a police officer.

"James has been consistently gaining weight, he started lifting weights two years ago at a weight of 140 pounds, today he tips the scale at 220 pounds while maintaining a body fat percentage of 12%," said the post.

It mentioned he could "bench press ... 425 pounds."

It said he "played many positions for the North York Grizzlies football team in 1999 earning the Outstanding Graduating Player award."

And his desire upon graduating fro W.L. Mackenzie C.I. To take "a year or two off from football to concentrate on getting leaner and more defined while gaining more muscle mass and improving his agility and speed."

It also mentioned his "plans on studying law enforcement at either Seneca or Humber College."

Forcillo has been a member of Toronto Police for six years and is currently under suspension with pay

 

[GPIDEAL]

Suspended with pay.

Sorry my bad. Thanks. Will correct.