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oldjones

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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SkyRider said:
Now Michael Moore is thrashing Toronto. Does he ever say anything nice about anybody?
http://www.metronews.ca/news/toront...s-toronto-garbage-for-flint-water-crisis.html
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He's often said nice things about Toronto and Canada (couldn't be stopped according to my friends who worked on Canadian Bacon) and even exaggerates how good our healthcare is compared to American.Just Google his name along with Canada and take your pick.

As for the story: We Canadians did ship our garbage to Michigan and still do. But the City of Toronto stopped doing that once we got rid of Mel, and once Miller got some money into the tax coffers to buy our own landfill. Now we ship it to London. Moore was right about years of Toronto garbage trucks convoying to Michigan, he just wasn't aware it had stopped Here's a less sensationalist report:The Canadian Press:

These stories out of Flint are stunning and heartbreaking.
Michael Moore: "No one's immune from it and everyone's responsible. Think about this.... there's truck after truck after truck, every hour of every day coming across the Blue Water Bridge in Sarnia, Ont., to dump the garbage of Toronto in landfills in and around Flint."
A city staffer says Toronto stopped sending its waste across the border in 2010, a contract that actually sent trash to a landfill nowhere near Flint. But the Ontario Waste Management Association notes that Toronto continues to send industrial and business waste to landfills in the Detroit area. A 2015 annual report filed by the Michigan government does say its largest source of imported waste comes from Canada and represents 17.1 per cent of all of the state's trash.
Moore warned that the contaminated water crisis in his hometown of Flint — where lead from corroded pipes leaked into the city's drinking water — is everybody's problem.

We cannot just keep shipping our problems down the road, like Mel and Rob voted to do. No sign Tory's moving them in a more responsible direction either.

Flint's specific problem is indeed everybody's problem, lots and lots of Toronto homes still get their water through lead pipes. Don't be distracted by the funny fat clown, all he's saying is ya gotta own your problem, not just connect to something farther away.
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BTW Since I recalled passing Fox river Landfill signs when visiting relatives in East Lansing, I checked Google Maps. The best route from Toronto is as Moore said, over the Blue Water and straight through Flint, truck after truck of filth, hour after hour, with not a penny of benefit to the people of Flint.
 
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james t kirk

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Is it Toronto's fault, or is it Michigan's fault for not regulating dump sites.

Americans are very very lax when it comes to the environment. When the argument is money vs. the Environment, money always wins.

Toronto is the junkie and Michigan is the dealer in my eyes.

That said, there will come a day when Michigan no longer takes our trash. Then what?
 
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james t kirk

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As to lead in Flint Michigan's water system, boy, I'd love to see the City of Toronto look at the water supply here.

I can ASSURE you that there are tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of houses in Toronto with lead water services (i.e. the pipe that brings the water from the watermain in the street to your house).

If you live an older house in Toronto, i.e. one built in the late 1800's all the way to the 1940's, you could have a lead water service. (I know, I had one in my place and I made a point of having it replaced. The city paid for the new portion from the water main to the street line and I paid from the street line to the water meter. At the time, when I figured it out, I pointed it out to all my neighbours that we all had lead water services (we would get together for barbeques and laugh about the shitty water pressure (more accurately flow). Several of them poo-pooed me as Chicken Little and still have lead water services.) I have a nice new 3/4 inch copper K flex line connected to a lead free copper / pex system in my house.
 
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jcpro

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Well, he did invade an all you can eat buffet. Maybe he should make a documentary about that. A subject he's intimately familiar with.
 
oldjones

oldjones

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james t kirk said:
As to lead in Flint Michigan's water system, boy, I'd love to see the City of Toronto look at the water supply here.

I can ASSURE you that there are tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of houses in Toronto with lead water services (i.e. the pipe that brings the water from the watermain in the street to your house).

If you live an older house in Toronto, i.e. one built in the late 1800's all the way to the 1940's, you could have a lead water service. (I know, I had one in my place and I made a point of having it replaced. The city paid for the new portion from the water main to the street line and I paid from the street line to the water meter. At the time, when I figured it out, I pointed it out to all my neighbours that we all had lead water services (we would get together for barbeques and laugh about the shitty water pressure (more accurately flow). Several of them poo-pooed me as Chicken Little and still have lead water services.) I have a nice new 3/4 inch copper K flex line connected to a lead free copper / pex system in my house.
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Quite true, I've now had the lead taken out of two houses, and marvel at my neighbours who just can't seem to find the cash, or are too precious about a bit of digging in the front.

As I understand it the Flint situation went from 'acceptable' — what my neighbours would call their Toronto water — to horrendous when the sate-appointed City Administrator (the elected officials had been sidelined because Flint was as bankrupt as Detroit) decided he wouldn't pay for Detroit Water anymore, and ordered the water drawn from the local river. By the time they sorted out the additional water treatment required, the chemicals were leaching the lead from the pipes at a hugely higher rate than was 'acceptable' [see above].

The real problem is these cities have no money. Their jobless taxbase has none, and instead of getting it from the wealthy carmakers, the higher levels of the people's government give them loans and taxbreaks they use to relocate in cheaper wage countries so they can sell — sorry, rent — cars eve to the poorest, whose parents used to proudly build them in Flint. So an accountant was sent in to get water out of whatever filthy source was free.

There's never the money to get it right to begin with but someone always finds the money when it breaks down, and it's too late to ever make right again.
 
oldjones

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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SkyRider said:
There is a test for lead in your water. Apparently, there is a "safe" level.
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They used to say that about asbestos, and smoking. Have we learned nothing? There is no 'safe' level, there's just a level beneath which we can no longer statistically correlate the level with known bad outcomes. Ask yourself if you'd put that safe amount on a spoon and eat it. Would you hand the spoon to your daughter and tell her it was 'safe'?

There's an 'acceptable' level, which is just that. All things considered, the powers that be 'accept' that the costs of fixing it would be greater than the known costs of 'accepting' the harms.

Not that that's all bad, if we can't tell some kid's lack of brain-development was genetic or due to the lead in the water, where's the harm?
 
anon1

anon1

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jcpro said:
Well, he did invade an all you can eat buffet. Maybe he should make a documentary about that. A subject he's intimately familiar with.
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You mean he's fat, so his opinion doesn't mean anything?
Just like Obama, he's black so his opinions don't mean anything either?
 
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jcpro

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anon1 said:
You mean he's fat, so his opinion doesn't mean anything?
Just like Obama, he's black so his opinions don't mean anything either?
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Being fat and dressing like a slob is part of his shtick. A choice-everybody knows that. Do you think that Obama is black by choice? Really?
 
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jcpro

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anon1 said:
So only stylish attractive people matter?
Where does that leave you?
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That's your conclusion? You sound like my bitchy ex.
 
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jcpro

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B

Bud Plug

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oldjones said:
They used to say that about asbestos, and smoking. Have we learned nothing? There is no 'safe' level, there's just a level beneath which we can no longer statistically correlate the level with known bad outcomes. Ask yourself if you'd put that safe amount on a spoon and eat it. Would you hand the spoon to your daughter and tell her it was 'safe'?

There's an 'acceptable' level, which is just that. All things considered, the powers that be 'accept' that the costs of fixing it would be greater than the known costs of 'accepting' the harms.

Not that that's all bad, if we can't tell some kid's lack of brain-development was genetic or due to the lead in the water, where's the harm?
Click to expand...
On that analysis, you shouldn't let your daughter drive, because there's no "safe level" of that either! Or eating at restaurants. Or going to school (especially in Pickering, it would seem).

It's hard to think of any human activity that doesn't entail at least some minute or remote chance of harm. That's why we always establish "an acceptable level of risk" and then live with it.

You might not choose to do some things given the risk, no matter how remote (like your spoon example), but I guarantee that you choose to take some risks every day (including posting on this board!).
 
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