My Notebook PC Keeps Crashing

Scenicdrive

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thirdtime said:
Windows can't copy itself if it's running.
What you need is to remove the hard drive from the notebook and either put it in your external enclosure or connect it to another computer with a 2.5" hard drive to standard IDE adapter.
Then you could copy the entire hard drive (or partition) out to another drive.
Interesting that Windows OS cannot copy itself as if it is making a photocopy of itself while remain an internal drive. Granted that I now have taken it out and you say I can copy the entire content of it into another drive. I like to copy it back to the new internal HDD, which I upgrade into a 120 GB instead of the old 80GB. (People sold me the hardware said the computer will have no problem with a larger storage drive. I hope this is true.)

My question is do I need any imaging program to facilitate such copying such as the Acronis imaging program? Or just a straight disk to disk copying will do? If I can copy from disk to disk, then there will be no need to load the system utilities and drivers since they are all there with the original HDD. Is this correct??? If so, how do I avoid copying the bad blocks of the HDD? Is there an easy way to do this?
 

thirdtime

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Scenicdrive said:
I cannot get the Windows OS running, not even the safe mode. Is my internal HDD dead now?
Sounds like it's too late to try and copy anything over. If the drive is that far gone, I wouldn't trust the integrity of what did copy over.
I think you're at the point where you need to use a recovery disk to restore the operating system, or install from scratch on the new drive. :(
 

Whisperwolf

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Questions:
1) do the symptoms point to a hard drive problem which may need a hard drive replacement sooner or later? Or it is a simpler problem as presented by the Windows Error Reporting:
A) Yes, most likely. Windows hides away its “hive” files – files that are used to tell it how to control the operating system – so that they cannot be seen at all by the user of the operating system, but it’s a classic case of “out of sight, out of mind”. These files still exist, and if they should happen to be written to an area of the hard drive which is beginning to lose its magnetic ability, then you’ll get all kinds of unexpected errors and collapses from Windows. It won’t be able to tell you what’s wrong because it doesn’t know itself – the very files that would help it diagnose a problem are themselves stored in the faulty area of the disk.
What can I do
2) to prevent it from crashing and worse still,
3) to prevent it from losing all files and data due to a hard drive failure?
2) Short answer? You can’t. Long answer, the problem isn’t going to go away and will get worse. The hard drive is failing, and needs to be replaced as soon as possible.
3) Again, you can’t repair the damaged areas of the disk. You CAN seal off those you can find, each hard drive has what is called a “bad track listing” which marks off where on the disk faults lie so that it doesn’t try to use those areas of the disk, but this is a preventative measure, not a cure. You can isolate danger areas and stop using them, but you can’t repair them. Also bear in mind the problem will only get worse, and the bad track table is only finite. The moment it runs out of room (usually 1% of the drive capacity can be used for storing bad track data) then that’s it. The drive will cease to be rescuable at all, and when that happens, a catastrophic failure is imminent. Do yourself a favour, replace the drive before it gets this far.
For 2) Will reformatting the existing internal hard drive solve the problem? If so, what is the best way of doing it? But back up all data first for reinstallation later upon reformatting? Or do you need to? What software is the best available and easiest to use?
A) Reformatting the drive (don’t use quick format) will mark bad areas in the bad track list I just talked about, which will prolong the drives use, but it will not and cannot repair them. If it is in the middle of formatting and the drive bad track table becomes full, it will abort with the message “Bad Track Table Full – Replace the Disk. Format failed.” At which point the semi-formatted drive may or may not be usable.
But for 3) I imagine it is to back up all the data from the existing hard drive to another drive. Now since it is a notebook, it will be an external hard drive. I am thinking of buying “Copy Commander” as copying the entire drive in simplest steps is exactly what I want. My related question is, if I copy the content of the entire hard drive to a new drive, will it have the same problem with starting the computer since presumably whatever is defective is being copied to the external drive. So if the internal hard drive failed, my back up drive will not jump start the Notebook computer either. Is my assumption correct?
A) Not entirely. You’ll end up with a mirror copy of the drive at the time it was backed up, which means the second you use the internal drive your backup will be out of date. Depending on the computer, you CAN get most modern machines to boot off other devices, such as a USB hard drive, but the performance cost will be crippling. A USB2 cable can carry up to 1 megabyte of data per second (firewire, if you have it on your notebook and buy a compatible external drive, can carry 10 times that amount) whereas an IDE internal disk interface can transfer up to 20 megabytes per second, and SATA (a later standard of hard drive interface) is faster still. So if you do boot off a USB drive, any drive accessing you do is going to be 20 times slower, including the length of time it takes to boot windows. It’s doable, but it’s painfully slow. When you “clone” a disk, bad track data is NOT carried over, since each drive is different physically.
 

WoodPeckr

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Whisperwolf

Thanks for the little HDD tutorial.
You passed on lots of handy useful info.
 

Scenicdrive

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thirdtime said:
Sounds like it's too late to try and copy anything over. If the drive is that far gone, I wouldn't trust the integrity of what did copy over.
I think you're at the point where you need to use a recovery disk to restore the operating system, or install from scratch on the new drive.
Yes thirdtime, sometimes I wonder. I know I cannot open up some programs (e.g. voice recognition, DSS files). The computer runs fine these couple of days but again who knows when it will crash again. I am waiting for this weekend to put in the new HDD and move the programs and files around.

Whisperwolf pal:

Thanks for such elaborate answers to my questions. It is greatly appreciated and help most people understand HDDs. I have purchased a 120 GB internal HDD to replace this troublesome internal HDD. The Dell people wanted to sell me a 100GB ‘Dell’ internal HDD for $360.00 for this Inspiron XPS (first generation). These are amazing blood suckers whereas I paid $90 for a Hitachi 120GB replacement.

The Notebook is still running although there is no telling when it will crash again. The computer store in USA that I bought the internal HDD from offered to diagnose the computer and repair the defective internal HDD. I am 99% sure that it is the HDD problem and based on the discussion so far, it is futile to attempt to repair it. So it would seem a waste of money for those people to run a diagnostic and to ‘repair’ the bad HDD. I can reformat it myself and I believe I ran enough diagnostics (Windows Blue Screen & Why OS would not load test) to draw the conclusion that it is a HDD problem. The only thing I am not sure is that it failed the DST Short Status Test (error code 1000-0146). I do not know exactly what that means. But I assume it has to do with the HDD failing to be read properly.


My hope really is to be able to copy everything from the bad HDD and transfer everything back to the replacement HDD so I do not lose any data/file. (Again, I am not sure how reliable the copied data will be.) I attempted to do this with the 500GB Simple Drive I bought. This device offers the one click copies all button. But when I tried, it caused the computer to freeze and crash. Now I understand when Windows OS is running, it cannot copy itself. Perhaps one day, technology will solve this interesting issue.

When I called the tech expert at Simple Drive, I was told not to copy the program files since they will not run the programs even if being copied back to the same computer. So my back up so far does not include any program files. The copied files and data are 'compressed' or archived in the 500 GB HDD. I was told that I can only restored them to my notebook that it originally copied from. I know I am missing quite a bit of files and data. For example, I cannot copy all ‘my favorites’ from Internet Explorer. Is there a way to copying ‘my favorites’ to the new drive and make it work? This represents many days' of research/work. :eek:

Now my question is how would copying the entire content of the bad HDD make the computer function as before? It sounds like the OS, all drivers and utilities, as well as many programs, such as MS Office need to be reinstalled first. Then copy the entire bad HDD content (now in enclosure and connect to USB as an external HDD) to the new HDD. If so, why would I need programs such as ‘Copy Commander’ to do it? Or copying the entire content from the odd HDD indeed will make it run like its old self before it became bad?
 

WoodPeckr

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Scenicdrive said:
Now my question is how would copying the entire content of the bad HDD make the computer function as before? It sounds like the OS, all drivers and utilities, as well as many programs, such as MS Office need to be reinstalled first. Then copy the entire bad HDD content (now in enclosure and connect to USB as an external HDD) to the new HDD. If so, why would I need programs such as ‘Copy Commander’ to do it? Or copying the entire content from the odd HDD indeed will make it run like its old self before it became bad?
I`ve done this several times with no problems but then it was with 2 good HDDs and I used Seagate DiscWizzard. Everything copied over to the new drive with no problem and functioned like before....the whole OS, all XP updates, all drivers and utilities, all programs I use, including Anti Virus program, all browsers I use (including browser favorites) all files and folders, everything that was on the smaller drive copied over to the bigger drive and functioned like it was there all along. This process took about 25 minutes and there was no need to reinstall each program one by one, as they were all copied over in the process. Then the drives were swapped and everything ran and functioned like before.

You don`t have to buy ‘Copy Commander’, DiscWizzard will do the same and it`s a free download.
Here`s a thread that deals with this also:
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=172306
 

Scenicdrive

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WoodPeckr said:
I`ve done this several times with no problems but then it was with 2 good HDDs and I used Seagate DiscWizzard. Everything copied over to the new drive with no problem and functioned like before....the whole OS, all XP updates, all drivers and utilities, all programs I use, including Anti Virus program, all browsers I use (including browser favorites) all files and folders, everything that was on the smaller drive copied over to the bigger drive and functioned like it was there all along. This process took about 25 minutes and there was no need to reinstall each program one by one, as they were all copied over in the process. Then the drives were swapped and everything ran and functioned like before.

You don`t have to buy ‘Copy Commander’, DiscWizzard will do the same and it`s a free download.
Here`s a thread that deals with this also:
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=172306
Thanks for the suggestion, Woodpeckr. It is certainly worth a try and is probably my first option. I am not overly optimistic since the original internal HDD crashed so many times already. Reinstalling the OS, utilities and drivers, then attempt to load the files and folders are certainly the last resort. Something is bound to be lost in this process. Bummer!!! :(
 

blackdog

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If you had a mac the bandwidth used in this thread would of been put to much better use discussing the details of having sex with prostitutes rather than PC mumbo jumbo. Life is too short.
 

thirdtime

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Whisperwolf said:
A USB2 cable can carry up to 1 megabyte of data per second (firewire, if you have it on your notebook and buy a compatible external drive, can carry 10 times that amount) whereas an IDE internal disk interface can transfer up to 20 megabytes per second, and SATA (a later standard of hard drive interface) is faster still. So if you do boot off a USB drive, any drive accessing you do is going to be 20 times slower, including the length of time it takes to boot windows.
A lot of info. Unfortunately, it's all wrong.

Transfer rates per second:
USB 1.1 12 Megabits = 1.5 Megabytes
USB 2.0 480 Megabits = 60 Megabytes
1394a (Firewire 400) 400 Megabits = 50 Megabytes

Current IDE hard drives (in Ultra DMA mode 5) can have a sustained data transfer rate higher than 75 Megabytes\second. (SATA can be faster)

Also, if you have Windows XP, Service Pack 2 effectively screws up firewire.
 
Scenicdrive said:
Thanks for the suggestion, Woodpeckr. It is certainly worth a try and is probably my first option. I am not overly optimistic since the original internal HDD crashed so many times already. Reinstalling the OS, utilities and drivers, then attempt to load the files and folders are certainly the last resort. Something is bound to be lost in this process. Bummer!!! :(
try if possible loading norton ghost and create and image on this.. this will allow you to reinstall all files when system crash (suffers) a virus.. you can do this also with a partition hard drive.. ie: c drive 60% and a d drive 40%, if files are saved in or store in d drive they can be retrieve at any time..except from a dead hard drive
 

Scenicdrive

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genie888 said:
try if possible loading norton ghost and create and image on this.. this will allow you to reinstall all files when system crash (suffers) a virus.. you can do this also with a partition hard drive.. ie: c drive 60% and a d drive 40%, if files are saved in or store in d drive they can be retrieve at any time..except from a dead hard drive
Thanks pal. I actually had this done by the computer store who sold me that new HHD. It is a Hitachi 120 GB. ($80) They tried to ghost copy but ran into some problem. So they used a different program to clone a copy from the old internal HHD. I have no idea what program they used. I paid them $29 for the diagnosis and cloning. But so far the new internal HDD works ok, with whatever flaws it copied. The old HDD was encased with an enclosure ($25). All the old data are still intact. The original HDD has not died yet. :)
 

Scenicdrive

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blackdog said:
If you had a mac the bandwidth used in this thread would of been put to much better use discussing the details of having sex with prostitutes rather than PC mumbo jumbo. Life is too short.
Geezzz, Mr. blackdog, the good doc has known many mac user having problems with their computers as well. Please discuss the details of having sex with whomever elsewhere in terb and leave the technology forum for technology. Observe the wisdom of Freddie and our moderators, my friend. You will be surprised how much your everyday life is intermingled with technology. :cool:
 
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