New Ford investigation - broke campaign finance rules

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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I think people need to understand the definitions of left and right on the political spectrum.

CBC and Toronto Star - left wing
Globe&Mail - centre to centre left
CTV - centre
National Post - centre right
Sun Media - right wing
I think your right wing coloured glasses are distorting your view of reality.
Look at it this way.
Only 34% of the country is as right wing as Harper, so a majority of the country is NDP or Liberal.
And of those, only CBC is close to the views of the country.
Its you that's biased.
 

Anynym

Just a bit to the right
Dec 28, 2005
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I think your right wing coloured glasses are distorting your view of reality.
Look at it this way.
Only 34% of the country is as right wing as Harper, so a majority of the country is NDP or Liberal.
And of those, only CBC is close to the views of the country.
Its you that's biased.
This is hilarious! Or would be if you didn't actually think it were true! (Which makes it really, really sad.)
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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This is hilarious! Or would be if you didn't actually think it were true! (Which makes it really, really sad.)
Do you dispute the fact that about 60% of the people of Canada support the liberals and NDP?
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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Even fewer Canadians support the NDP view of the world, or the Liberal view of the world, at this time.

I did not vote for the Conservatives, but I respect that they won the election. It would do you some good to grow up and accept that too.
 

omegaphallic

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2010
3,006
48
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I think people need to understand the definitions of left and right on the political spectrum.

CBC and Toronto Star - Centre
Globe&Mail - Centre Right with occasional token lefties.
CTV -See above.
CBC- Centre to centre right
National Post - centre right, to right
Sun Media - Bat Shit Crazy
Fixed it for you. :D
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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Even fewer Canadians support the NDP view of the world, or the Liberal view of the world, at this time.

I did not vote for the Conservatives, but I respect that they won the election. It would do you some good to grow up and accept that too.
Their majority was won on the backs of electoral fraud, as shown by the Council of Canadians case.
They represent a minority of the population but won a majority of seats.
More people voted for the NDP and the Liberals.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,957
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Their majority was won on the backs of electoral fraud, as shown by the Council of Canadians case.
They represent a minority of the population but won a majority of seats.
More people voted for the NDP and the Liberals.
Nonsense.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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This graphic, is all we really need to know about Toronto and how it votes municipally.
Recent polls have Ford losing to practically anybody who runs. Chow, Stintz, or Tory. Left/right/middle -- they're all beating him.

And has there ever been a whole year go by without Ford doing something dumb? Heck, has there been a month?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,975
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Recent polls have Ford losing to practically anybody who runs. Chow, Stintz, or Tory. Left/right/middle -- they're all beating him.

And has there ever been a whole year go by without Ford doing something dumb? Heck, has there been a month?
I think the "anti-Ford" forces may have moved too quickly. If your going to smear an opponent it is best done closer to the election. They are running out of ammo. If a nice surplus comes in at the end of this year and is used well people will see that things are starting to turn around. All these various stragedies aren't really working. People are starting to see them for the coordinated partisan attacks they are.
The voting public like to play fair...and hate it when others don't.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,975
5,786
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Dear God.

The Toronto Star is "centre"?

The CBC is "centre to centre right"??

It has to be asked: Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party of Canada?
I think the Communist Party of Canada may be a little too right wing for this guy....
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,478
12
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I think the "anti-Ford" forces may have moved too quickly. If your going to smear an opponent it is best done closer to the election. They are running out of ammo. If a nice surplus comes in at the end of this year and is used well people will see that things are starting to turn around. All these various stragedies aren't really working. People are starting to see them for the coordinated partisan attacks they are.
The voting public like to play fair...and hate it when others don't.
I dunno about that, Miller's surplus was nice enough to keep Rob's budget balanced (although he also needed one of Miller's taxes, and a tax-hike to do it). Without his inheiritance from Miller, Rob woulda been cooked. But you and yours forget that. You give people credit for much longer memories and smarter analysis than the evidence suggests.

And calling the large and growing numbers who are disgusted with Ford "… the "anti-Ford" forces" likewise overstates the case, even if it stays shy of looney paranoia akin to Don Cherry's 'commoonist conspiracies' of old. "Coordinated partisan attacks"? Oooh! Vut ees Monday passvord, Comrade Boris?

He was a mistake. Some have taken longer to realize it than others. No one ran to be Mayor of All-Toronto last time (take a look at the graphic Polaris posted a page back), let's hope someone does next time around.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,064
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Morphed

Do you dispute the fact that about 60% of the people of Canada support the liberals and NDP?
And that statement applies to elections,... how ??

More people picked the colour blue than the colour red OR the colour orange,... did the colours red and orange some how magically become a new colour ???

FAST

PS: I used Crayon colours to demonstrate my point for obvious reasons. :)
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,478
12
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Dear God.

The Toronto Star is "centre"?

The CBC is "centre to centre right"??

It has to be asked: Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party of Canada?
Clearly you've ignored the reality that these are relative terms so long you've forgotten it. Which is why it is to laugh when folks with posting histories that might make Stockwell Day look like a fanatical Darwinist 'preaching property is theft' , share their ranking of the media, as KD did.

Given the sources, as your response to one of them shows: What was the point? Only the poster cares.

If I might suggest: It's self-deceiving and self-defeating to pretend you're debating, discussing and somehow producing an improved consciousness in the community, when all you're really doing is slinging easy labels around. Like the poor, the left (or the right) ye shall always have with you. Best get used to it and talk about real things we can do. With both hands.

PS. Sailors long ago banished the useless and confusing terms left and right; port and starboard don't depend on where you're standing or facing. And the Communist Party was rigidly fascist and famously authoritarian, while the Nazis were avowedly socialist (and Socialist) as German governments had been since Bismark. It's all relative, and arguing about relatives is akin (no pun intended) to disputing 'holier than thou'. Oh yeah? Sez who?
 

omegaphallic

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2010
3,006
48
48
Dear God.

The Toronto Star is "centre"?

The CBC is "centre to centre right"??

It has to be asked: Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party of Canada?
The communist party threw me out when I,suggested, innocently that we nationalize all the women with trim bodies and C-cup and larger tits. Party poopers :(

I kid, I've never been a communist, I find communism a dry and dead idealogy tied by the tits to the industrial age and irrelivant to the information age.

And I'm not as leftwing as you think, I'm more moderate left, not far left.

I don't expect the NDP to start nationalizing imdusties left and right, I don't expect taxes of 75% and I don't hate all the rich, just the ones that don't give a shit about anyone else.

As for blue vs. Orange and Red ideally none would have a majority from those results and it befits a minority government.

And who knew what the outcome would be if the Tories hadn't cheated, it puts the legitamacy of this parliament into question.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
15,259
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I think the "anti-Ford" forces may have moved too quickly. If your going to smear an opponent it is best done closer to the election. They are running out of ammo.
Running out of ammo?
Hardly.
As long as Ford keeps talking we'll be fully armed.
Look at the last few days he was trying to do something, during the budget vote, where he voted against his own budget.
The more people know him, the more he is exposed as a clown, a fool who doesn't understand how you run a city.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,975
5,786
113
I dunno about that, Miller's surplus was nice enough to keep Rob's budget balanced (although he also needed one of Miller's taxes, and a tax-hike to do it). Without his inheiritance from Miller, Rob woulda been cooked. But you and yours forget that. You give people credit for much longer memories and smarter analysis than the evidence suggests.

And calling the large and growing numbers who are disgusted with Ford "… the "anti-Ford" forces" likewise overstates the case, even if it stays shy of looney paranoia akin to Don Cherry's 'commoonist conspiracies' of old. "Coordinated partisan attacks"? Oooh! Vut ees Monday passvord, Comrade Boris?

He was a mistake. Some have taken longer to realize it than others. No one ran to be Mayor of All-Toronto last time (take a look at the graphic Polaris posted a page back), let's hope someone does next time around.
On the point of voter memory, I thought when a said the attacks came too soon clearly shows I understand it is short. Well hopefully that states it clearly.
The latest budget is for 2013(projected). And I believe it is within about 40 million of balance, before the inevitable surpluses. In other words, we can use said surpluses to say pay down the debt on future transit commitments, cut a bit of the accrued debt from previous years and look at infrastructure as well.
I do believe some of the attacks are co-ordinated. A certain 27 year old former library board member is doing nothing but searching for the most minute ammo and passing it to various sources. Some of these people have admitted as much. Somewhere there is money behind this as well. I believe that.
That isn't paranoia. That's acknowedging modern politics.
The Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch do it in the USA
Why not in Toronto
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,957
8
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
And who knew what the outcome would be if the Tories hadn't cheated, it puts the legitamacy of this parliament into question.
Comments like this make me worry about the world. Random unsupported accusations now pass as fact in the age of the youtube conspiracy theory.

Your comment is in the same territory as Obama birth certificate conspiracies and 9/11 truthers.

Really? You are propagating a claim that Harper stole the election, that he wouldn't now be PM with a majority had there not been some sort of electoral fraud? Certainly there appear to have been some minor violations--robocalls and perhaps some campaign finance games--but none of that rises to a level that would have materially changed the outcome of the election, and certainly nothing that would stop a determined electorate from booting him from office if we really wanted him out. Yes, it's important to investigate and enforce these rules, to stop any violations from becoming the sort of election rigging that happens in shitty countries--but we're nowhere near that level of rule violation and it's insulting to Canadian democracy to assert that we are.

Why not man up and admit that, even though you didn't vote for him, and even though you might not like our election system, our current Prime Minister actually did win the election and is now legitimately governing the country. I know I didn't vote for him, and I have been very critical of him--as I've been critical of Rob Ford, for example--but I have enough respect for our democracy not to go about undermining it just because my guy didn't win.

I see your attitude, and groggy's, as childish. I have seen such childishness on the right too--accusations that the whole system is rigged just because your guy didn't win it. Grow up.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,478
12
38
On the point of voter memory, I thought when a said the attacks came too soon clearly shows I understand it is short. Well hopefully that states it clearly.
The latest budget is for 2013(projected). And I believe it is within about 40 million of balance, before the inevitable surpluses. In other words, we can use said surpluses to say pay down the debt on future transit commitments, cut a bit of the accrued debt from previous years and look at infrastructure as well.
I do believe some of the attacks are co-ordinated. A certain 27 year old former library board member is doing nothing but searching for the most minute ammo and passing it to various sources. Some of these people have admitted as much. Somewhere there is money behind this as well. I believe that.
That isn't paranoia. That's acknowedging modern politics.
The Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch do it in the USA
Why not in Toronto
OK you believe. Any evidence? One guy showing up repeatedly is not a conspiracy a cabal or even a committee. And exactly what's wrong anyway, with people who share opinions getting together and co-ordinating how they express them? You do know we have things called political parties for precisely that purpose?

I'd love to see full disclosure of all political spending and donations but that two-edged sword is exactly why US is now lumbered with corporation funded super PACs. Open records would throw the spotlight on those lobbyists and favour-seekers crawling around in the shadows, 'donating' to pols favourite cause and 'stimulating the economy' with junkets to casinos. But the big spenders also demand their free speech rights be paid for in secret. It isn't the little guys who invoke privacy over their $5 contributions.

Best bet we have is rigorous audits and something like zero-tolerance for discovered offences. After all these guys who claim their overspending was just an excusable lapse of oversight are running for jobs where they claim oversight has been lacking for years but they're just the guy to supply it. If overspending is rampant at City Hall, electing guys like these explains why. They cannot follow the rules, and they don't handle other peoples' money responsibly.

Responsible spending starts with raising enough revenue to cover on-going expenses, routine maintenance and a reasonable repayment schedule for the debt incurred for capital projects. Toronto hasn't been run like that since it became a megacity. The Miller taxes were an attempt to build the revenue side so we could make a start on transit, the Gardiner, water main and sewer replacement and upgrades, but Rob kiboshed all that and set us back a clutch of years by abolishing one of them. However we note he's using the other (which he promised he'd repeal the day he took office) to balance his budget. Not that he's got any plan to get the City back into decent repair, let alone make it better.

All he wants is a Casino. What an Inspiring vision!
 
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