New Illinois Rape Law

Jan 7, 2003
596
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Toronto
www.ra-media.org
Now if a girl says stop after she clearly says go and you don't comply, you can be charged with rape. In effect, "yes" can be construed as "no" in the eyes of the court.

Remember when some guys would interpret a no for a yes? Irony of ironies... talk about turning the tables!
 

King

Member
Aug 22, 2001
226
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I don't see a problem here. If you changed your mind during and wanted to stop, would that be ok?

King
 

Geographic

Member
Jan 21, 2002
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Toronto
Same in Canada

It's the same in Canada. A girl can withdraw her consent at anytime and if you don't stop, it's sexual assault.
 

lucifer

Banned
Aug 10, 2002
87
0
0
My take..

Reading such stuff makes me cringe.. i mean come on.. what is the big deal anyway..

If a gal agreed to have sex... and stops midway because she changes her mind.. what does that say about the mental status of that gal... is this gal retarded or just playing the guy.. or p**sing on him

But I guess lots of men defend such gals not realising that one day they are gonna be in that situation [at least I hope so].
I mean why do guys defend such pathetic feminazi ideas.. do they think that their chances of getting laid increase if they show sensitivity towards women... well sadly the gal is more likely to cheat on you/sleep with/stay with/go to a guy who treats her like c**p anyway.

My view might seem misogynist but then I see humans as hairless bipedal apes rather than fallen angels... and that explains much of what I believe
 

King

Member
Aug 22, 2001
226
1
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Who let the caveman in here???
 

zog

Friendly Arrogant Bastard
Dec 25, 2002
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Downtown TO
Get real!

Wake up.

Of course it's frustrating when you think you're going to get some action and it turns out you don't. It's even more frustrating when you feel like the girl has been playing you or teasing you by withdrawing her consent at the last moment. I've been there in the past and I'm willing to bet I'm not alone in that.

However, the only appropriate thing we can do is walk away. No matter how angry, frustrated, and pissed-off we might be by her behaviour (and no matter how justified we feel in these emotions) we still don't have the right to force anything on anyone.

Of course it's rape when you force a woman to have sex when she's said "no". This is not news.

Zog.
 

Cardinal Fang

Bazinga Bitches
Feb 14, 2002
6,578
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www.vatican.va
Re: My take..

lucifer said:

My view might seem misogynist but then I see humans as hairless bipedal apes rather than fallen angels... and that explains much of what I believe
And much of how you think.

Believe it or not lucifer, but there is that grey matter between our ears. You know, the kind that seperates us from the animals!
 

lucifer

Banned
Aug 10, 2002
87
0
0
Re: Get real!

Laws are made to regulate human behaviour BY humans... they work best when they take deeply ingrained human behaviour and mentality into account..

Look at laws against alcohol, drugs, prostitution, white-collar crime.. how successful have they been... why have they failed??...

Contrast that with laws against homicide... how much non-gang related homicide happens [even in the US].. why not??

You see.. humans have an aversion to killing other humans [unless they are in a life or death situation and even then most will not be able to kill]... but humans like to get high.. have multiple sex partners, cheat on resources... because that is part of what makes us what we are.. like it or not.. [we are just hairless, bipedal, greedy apes... not fallen angels]

Most guys do not get physically aggressive with [rape] gals who refuse sex upfront.. they might call her names... use verbal intimidation.. use threatening body language but rarely rape her.

Now.. a defination of rape, where the gal was physically forced to have sex inspite of the gal refusing to have sex, or not want to do a particular thing [explicitly stated] upfront is ok with almost every guy.

The problem arises when feminazi's hijack this concept.. and extend it to any situation..where the woman might cry rape for situations like
1] she was not really 'sure' [is the gal retarded, has ADD or is just flaky].
2] she was drunk/high [on her own voition] and she did it with a guy she would not have otherwise done it with... [hey.. tell me.. i have lowered my standards for gals too .. when drunk].
3] she is pissed of with guy because he was rude, did not call her back or was of the wrong race, social class [and she is now ashamed].. kobe anyone..
4] she wants to extort money... [why not just work as an SP]
5] she wants to get back at him....

Look here.. just being born with a c**t instead of a d**k does not make the human any more truthful, reliable, better than the other... but making laws that assume that is wrong.. and worse can destroy innocent lives... in most crimes you are innocent until proven otherwise.. what is so special about rape..

If you treat men like c**p, they will reciprocate.. and live up to your labels.

Case in point ... blacks in the US... for a long time.. right upto the late 1940's they were less likely to commit crime, have kids out of wedlock etc.. than equivalently poor whites.. but then something changed... and now most black music has women as ho's, bitches and sluts.. and men as scrubs.. is that what you want... do you want to have entire generations of men who will live up to your worst nightmares just because they think that that is what is expected of them, or it is cool or nobody will see them as as better than that even if they are better...

be careful of what you ask for.. you might just get it..

Just 'cause some loud screeching [and some polite] feminazis hate men... and help draft such legislation.. and create other social changes... will you [almost all other women] have to pay for it... Do you really think that reality gives a flying f**k about your 'ideology'..
 

johnhenrygalt

Active member
Jan 7, 2002
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I have no idea what is in the draft legislation, but I'd be very very surprised if anything in the legislation:

a) condones perjury by women;
b) suggests that the testimony of the complainant is to carry greater weight than that of the accused;
c) limits the accused's rights to a full and complete defense
d) relieves the state of its obligation to prove beyond a reasonable doubt all elements of the offense in order to secure a conviction

In the event that the draft legislation purported to do any of the foregoing, I have no doubt it would be held unconstitutional.

Moreover, there is nothing in the current legislation of any state in North America which can guarantee that no false accusations will be made. We do, however, prosecute and punish offenders who perjure themselves, and civil suits can be made against false accusers (for example - the René Angelil case).
 

Pyro

Flaming Pig :(8)~
Jan 7, 2003
455
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This is starting to make sense...

lucifer said:
Most guys do not get physically aggressive with [rape] gals who refuse sex upfront.. they might call her names... use verbal intimidation.. use threatening body language but rarely rape her.
In an earlier thread, "Lucifer" was all bent out of shape because white girls wouldn't date him. Now he seems to be out of joint because women who get close to him change their minds about getting intimate.

Instead of taking some positive steps to make himself more appealing (try soap and water, to start) this guy would rather blame it on everything but himself.

How can anyone, in all seriousness, really believe that a law that supports the right of an individual to decide who she (or he) sleeps with is wrong?

What if you picked up a hot-looking girl, got her back to bed and, when she stripped down, you realised that her nether regions smelled like six-week-old tuna? Do you have the right to "change you mind" and run like hell? Of course you do! Even though you were ready to sleep with her a few minutes earlier, you have the right to change your mind and stay away from that open sewer.

If you were in that situation and smelly-crotch-girl pulled a gun and forced you to do her, wouldn't you feel violated? I know I would. All that this "new" law is saying is that women have that same right to decline sex. If it really is a new law, then it's about time!

And "Lucy", have a look at what you said earlier and give your head a fucking shake. "verbal intimidation" and "threatening body language" are forms of assault and, if you think it's OK to use these tactics to get sex, you need a doctor or a jail cell.

Pyro.
 

Lil'Miss

Craving DenWa's Member
What kind of sick a-hole would want to have sex with a girl that wasn't willing anyway? Probably the same guys who think they can't get aids.

Miss
 

fernie

Banned
Feb 19, 2003
1,135
0
0
Because of the stigma associated with a conviction, rape means a trial of the victim rather than the accused. How many times is there a corroborating witness to a rape? Unlike any other crime, why is the sworn testimony of the victim considered to be doubtful evidence more often than say a mugging victim? No wonder many victims don't want to testify.

Not long ago it was assumed that non-virgins couldn't say no. Victims on the stand weren't believed if they were on the pill, if they had a STD in the past, if they had an abortion, or if they had ever had an orgasm. Yep. Even better, at one time husbands couldn't be charged with rape because marriage gave him unlimited sexual access.

The times are always a changing. Deal with it.

Fernie
 

IB_VI_UB_IX!!!

New member
Jun 20, 2003
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in a house...somewhere....i think
"In an earlier thread, "Lucifer" was all bent out of shape because white girls wouldn't date him. Now he seems to be out of joint because women who get close to him change their minds about getting intimate."

REALLY????
I couldn't POSSIBLY see why anyone wouldn't want to date him.
*please note* if there was ever a sarcastic smily needed....now is the time
 

TheNiteHwk

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Aug 22, 2001
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No means NO, Stop means STOP & Rape is RAPE

Anybody has the right to stop the act at anytime IMO. No matter how far along you are... if she says stop. Then STOP! No if ands or buts. No means NO. Stop means STOP. I don't think rape is too strong a word to use here... if she says stop and you still con't against her will then that IMO is rape.
 

twinkle

New member
Jun 6, 2003
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The question is...Why is this surprising news to some men????

fernie said:
..... No wonder many victims don't want to testify.

Not long ago it was assumed that non-virgins couldn't say no. Victims on the stand weren't believed if they were on the pill, if they had a STD in the past, if they had an abortion, or if they had ever had an orgasm. Yep. Even better, at one time husbands couldn't be charged with rape because marriage gave him unlimited sexual access.

The times are always a changing. Deal with it.

Fernie
Excellent points fernie.

Actually MOST rape victims do not report/file charges. Studies say that even today, more than half do not. Out of all the females that I have personally known who were raped (date rape, stranger rape, gang rape, or raped as children by family/friends) less than 20% ever reported these rapes to the police, because of the fear of being racked over the coals in court or blamed/accused of lying by friends and even family, or because of the shame, guilt, and self blame that many victims have.

And who ever thinks the courts give better treatment to females/and rape vicitms is out of their minds. One friend I know, who was raped by her father as a child until she was 16, and when she became an adult, filed charges against her father when she discovered he was molesting his neighbours 8 year old daughter. There was too much evidence against him with her testimony and the testimony of the 8 year old girl, so he eventually pleaded guilty. Guess how much jail time he recieved.....2 Years and TWO days. WTF? She said that the slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing/punishment he was given, was almost like being raped again, but by the courts. She said she had huge regrets about filing charges.
She said for the sake of the 8 year old girl she was happy she went through the emotionally painful court process and testimony but ......said that if she had to do it all over again she would NOT because the ENTIRE PROCESS and court proceedings were too emotionally draining for her (she was such an emotional mess, understandibly, during this time that she had lost some friends and her fiance), especially having to rehash and discuss, and be cross examined, especially in a cold court room and 'infront of complete and utter stangers' (cops, lawyers, doctors, court reporter, court secuirty guards, etc.) the events of her private and traumatic experience of being raped, even though it occured almost 20years prior.

***Of course, No, means NO at any point in the ACT. If a woman is making out or having oral sex with a man and she does not want to have vaginal or anal sex and he forces those sexual acts on her THAT IS RAPE. Women are allowed to HAVE CHOICE with what they do or dont do with their OWN BODIES (and in this democratic society that includes the right to choose or not to choose birth control, childbirth or abortion, and with whom to have sex with and for whatever damn reason she chooses, and to agree with or not to engage in specific sexual acts) , even in marriage. Of course womens' bodies are not the PROPERTY of men, to do with what they please!!!!! Women are not animals or inatimate objects. Even if some men choose to objectify us.
If I even as a prostitute, if I tell a client who has paid to have sex with me, that I dont do anal or oral without a condom and he forces those acts on me, that is rape in my eyes. Even paying a woman for her sexual sevices does not ENTITLE a man to do any and every sexual act, under the sun, to her!

And I think it is so insulting to RESPECTABLE and DECENT men, to imply that they dont have enough "self control" to stop, in the middle of sexual activity with a woman. Men are not animals or lower life forms. They are human beings with free will and choice.

Thank goodness we live in a democratic society, and women are viewed as humans and are supposed to have equal rights to men.
In some countries, even today (India, middle eastern countries, etc.), in the year 2003 still have rules/laws that blame the rape victim.... some ladies are disowned by family and community, are jailed or even killed.

I read a survey that said most women are MORE afraid of rape than even death. And when I was involved in a home invasion a few years ago, when visiting a girlfriend and her mother in another country, and masked men with knives and metal bars entered the home......do you know the very first thought that came into my mind??????? "OMG I am(we are) going to be RAPED", interesting that my first fear was not robbery or death, even though that came next. (luckily we were able to escape without major injury or being raped). Rape, in all its forms, is such an emotionally damaging and traumatic negative life experience for women or men.
 
Last edited:
Aug 18, 2001
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Although I seriously disagree with *some* of what Lucifer has said, I think he has encouraged the wrath of the irrational litany.

Some are just misinformed: Johnhenrygalt, a, b, c, and d, do take place. We DON'T live in a world where reason dominants. The personal is the political, and therefore ideology (read: Feminism in this case) influences people including those in the Justice system.

And then there's the Litany armed with their ideologically false statistics, surveys and canards.
Christina Hoff Sommer's Book: "Who Stole Feminism?"(or Camille Paglia's works) puts the lie to some of them. Rape was illegal prior to Feminism.

And some people here are so simplistic in their arguments. No means No. Well, Duh! But, we all know that men are REWARDED by women for being ASSERTIVE. When is no, a real "NO!?" A no could be: I want you to try harder because you have to prove you're worth it.

All through the animal kingdom it's males that are in competition with other males to seduce females. Yes, humans have reason; but we have also evolved a certain psychology that PC ideology can't escape. Women, in general, want men who are stronger and assertive. They will test men and want them to do the opposite of what they say. The men that don't are wimps and they will want them to be -- at best -- friends, not lovers.

Here's what I believe. I'm a gentleman, and that means I find rape and non-consentual force of any kind morally repugnant. But, I will ignore the majority of what Feminists say because they themselves ignore what they say.
 

train

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Jul 29, 2002
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fernie said:
How many times is there a corroborating witness to a rape?

Fernie
Unless there is physical evidence which substantiates violence then you are right . With no corroberating evidence the standards of proof seem and must be somewhat different than in other crimes . From the very little I have seen it appears to rest on the credibility of those involved . Things have turned 180 dgrees from 15 or 20 years ago when what you said was true .The male is almost presumed guilty now whereas the female victim was presumed to be " asking for it " in the past . Obviously neither is a desirable situation .

No other crime sets the stage for wrongful conviction or erroneous aquital as much as this one . Too often it is a he said /she said situation . The Bryant trial will be interesting in this regard .

Very , very difficult .
 

Barry-O

Rain Maker
Jun 3, 2003
242
0
0
From Parts Unknown
Re: Re: Get real!

lucifer said:
The problem arises when feminazi's hijack this concept.. and extend it to any situation..where the woman might cry rape for situations like
1] she was not really 'sure' [is the gal retarded, has ADD or is just flaky].
2] she was drunk/high [on her own voition] and she did it with a guy she would not have otherwise done it with... [hey.. tell me.. i have lowered my standards for gals too .. when drunk].
3] she is pissed of with guy because he was rude, did not call her back or was of the wrong race, social class [and she is now ashamed].. kobe anyone..
4] she wants to extort money... [why not just work as an SP]
5] she wants to get back at him....

Look here.. just being born with a c**t instead of a d**k does not make the human any more truthful, reliable, better than the other... but making laws that assume that is wrong.. and worse can destroy innocent lives... in most crimes you are innocent until proven otherwise.. what is so special about rape..

If you treat men like c**p, they will reciprocate.. and live up to your labels.

Case in point ... blacks in the US... for a long time.. right upto the late 1940's they were less likely to commit crime, have kids out of wedlock etc.. than equivalently poor whites.. but then something changed... and now most black music has women as ho's, bitches and sluts.. and men as scrubs.. is that what you want... do you want to have entire generations of men who will live up to your worst nightmares just because they think that that is what is expected of them, or it is cool or nobody will see them as as better than that even if they are better...

be careful of what you ask for.. you might just get it..

Just 'cause some loud screeching [and some polite] feminazis hate men... and help draft such legislation.. and create other social changes... will you [almost all other women] have to pay for it... Do you really think that reality gives a flying f**k about your 'ideology'..
As much as I may not agree with much of what Lucifer says.....what he says in the above quote is actually a very good point and quite true (IMHO).

Quite frankly, a woman can cry rape ANYTIME and unless you have alot of money, you don't stand a chance in court as a male....you could be as innocent as the next guy and you'll still go down.

I find the court system to be VERY biased when it comes to this stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "pro male" when it comes to this. all I'm interested in seeing is a FAIR trial and more often than not it won't be fair.

Face it guys....the possibility of a woman crying "wolf" is much higher than you think...it actually happens alot


be careful boys its a jungle out there
 
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