New labour laws - $15/hour min - 3 weeks vacation

[james t kirk]

You could probably cut 25% of the government employees right off the bat, save money to pay for things like healthcare and stuff, and those people could get normal jobs being productive and trying to earn money for companies. Not a lot of value or productivity for society when you have countless overpaid admin workers twiddling their thumbs at a government desk.

Hudak tried that in the last election. Up until he thought of that little gem, he was leading in the polls (IIRC).

Then he just had to open his gate and say, "If I'm elected, I'm going to lay off 100,000 government workers in the province". He lost the election right there and then. Ka fucking boom. All he had to say is, "we will explore efficiencies and let attrition (retirements and people leaving) reduce the size of government" and he would have been fine. But nope, he had to shoot off his mouth about laying off 100,000 people and Wynne got reelected to a majority. Fucking hell.

The reality is simple. Even those among us who work in the private sector and KNOW that government under the liberals has become bloated and top heavy and we just can't afford all those new jobs, we all have family members who work for the government. I have all kinds of relatives working in the provincial government myself. I don't want to see them laid off. People heard Hudak and thought, "oh fuck, my wife works for the government, I don't want her to lose her job. Fuck it, I'm voting with my wallet and voting for Wynne".

No-one will care less if they let attrition take its course and naturally reduce the bloat. It will take 5 to 10 years, but mission accomplished. The only trick will be replacing the brains that you can't afford to lose. A pair of hands is a pair of hands, but don't kid yourself, there are some very competent and capable people working for the government and at the end of the day, you need them.

 

[Musketeer]

It's a deeply troubling proposition and one that should be debated a great deal beginning now to find solutions going forward. What kind of society will exist if half the workforce becomes obsolete.

It will definitely be a troubled society plagued with much more crime and mental health issues, addictions, and idle unemployed people just trying to find a purpose in their lives with no money in pocket to keep the economy going.

 

[Occasionally]

It will definitely be a troubled society plagued with much more crime and mental health issues, addictions, and idle unemployed people just trying to find a purpose in their lives with no money in pocket to keep the economy going.

And I can see that happening in western countries.

It's all about mindset, culture and jealousy.

I'm sure there's tons of people making crap wages in South Korea or Japan working in restaurants, surrounding by expensive real estate and cost of living. Or more modest countries where people live a step or two down from us.

Yet, crime and drug abuse isn't rampant.

Unfortunately, in countries like Canada or the US, people in general are well off, but then the have-nots can resort to complaining and causing trouble.

Never mind Canada, name one person on Earth who ever said working at McDonald's making fries or serving coffee at Tim Horton's is entitled to a "livable wage".

You won't see it. Nobody anywhere has ever said any job should be entitled to a livable wage. A job pays what it does because of supply and demand. That's why you have swarms of people flipping burgers for $10 and the store manager doesn't really give a shit how good they are, while let's say a science company is waiting months to find the right candidate and pay him $100,000. it all comes down to supply, demand and skill set.

When was the last time you saw a food server in Japan making a stink about making lousy money?

 

[explorerzip]

And I can see that happening in western countries.

It's all about mindset, culture and jealousy.

I'm sure there's tons of people making crap wages in South Korea or Japan working in restaurants, surrounding by expensive real estate and cost of living. Or more modest countries where people live a step or two down from us.

Yet, crime and drug abuse isn't rampant.

Unfortunately, in countries like Canada or the US, people in general are well off, but then the have-nots can resort to complaining and causing trouble.

Never mind Canada, name one person on Earth who ever said working at McDonald's making fries or serving coffee at Tim Horton's is entitled to a "livable wage".

You won't see it. Nobody anywhere has ever said any job should be entitled to a livable wage. A job pays what it does because of supply and demand. That's why you have swarms of people flipping burgers for $10 and the store manager doesn't really give a shit how good they are, while let's say a science company is waiting months to find the right candidate and pay him $100,000. it all comes down to supply, demand and skill set.

When was the last time you saw a food server in Japan making a stink about making lousy money?

Try living in Hong Kong where $1 million CAD barely gets you a 400 sq ft flat and the kitchen is smaller than an airplane bathroom. Then there's the subdivided flats where you're lucky to get a cubicle.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Try living in Hong Kong where $1 million CAD barely gets you a 400 sq ft flat and the kitchen is smaller than an airplane bathroom. Then there's the subdivided flats where you're lucky to get a cubicle

Tokyo is even worse

 

[rhuarc29]

That's all well and good in theory. But many in our population are not capable of doing skilled labor for whatever reason. Replace all those jobs with automation and guess what - we have a large pool of dependents on government handouts.

That's very true. But no matter what there will always be multiple classes of people. There's no such thing as a classless society.
I'm less concerned with the lower class than I am with the middle class getting squeezed. If the middle class disappears, we lose the potential bridge between the lower class and the upper class. We lose that, and we put ourselves back centuries.

 

[mclarkez1980]

That's very true. But no matter what there will always be multiple classes of people. There's no such thing as a classless society.
I'm less concerned with the lower class than I am with the middle class getting squeezed. If the middle class disappears, we lose the potential bridge between the lower class and the upper class. We lose that, and we put ourselves back centuries.

You're less concerned about homeless and people who are starving than people who may not be able to buy a new TV or upgrade their cell phone? Go sleep outside tonight and let me know how it goes. Clown...

 

[Occasionally]

That's all well and good in theory. But many in our population are not capable of doing skilled labor for whatever reason. Replace all those jobs with automation and guess what - we have a large pool of dependents on government handouts.

If that's the case, the government should dish out more funds to poor people. Government is the one with seemingly bottomless pockets, every job (even the lowest ones) probably pays at least $15/hr to start with (even before the wage increases), and with the amount of benefits they give to pensions, holidays, sick days etc... they should be able to scrape up some funds from their own pots.

 

[Occasionally]

You're less concerned about homeless and people who are starving than people who may not be able to buy a new TV or upgrade their cell phone? Go sleep outside tonight and let me know how it goes. Clown...

If you're going to call him a clown, you are calling just about every one of us a clown too.... yourself included.

Because I guarantee you and everyone else, most (if not all) of the people on this board have done nothing to help poor homeless people. We're all just doing our day to day life working, getting home, eating, chill out, sleeping, go back to work, rinse and repeat.

I'd like to see how much money you've donated or volunteer work you've done for homeless people or charities. I bet when you see one on the street with a cup or cardboard sign, you walk right past them.

 

[asuran]

There might be some short term problems. But in the long run it will be good for Ontario as a whole.
It'll take some years before we can see the positive results.

 

[FAST]

You're less concerned about homeless and people who are starving than people who may not be able to buy a new TV or upgrade their cell phone? Go sleep outside tonight and let me know how it goes. Clown...

People who are starving and live out side,... are NOT "lower class",... clown.

 

[rhuarc29]

You're less concerned about homeless and people who are starving than people who may not be able to buy a new TV or upgrade their cell phone? Go sleep outside tonight and let me know how it goes. Clown...

LMAO
What are you talking about? The lower-class working people (which is what we're talking about in this thread) are not homeless, nor starving. Hell, it's only a very small subset of the population that could maybe be characterized as malnourished, and even less as homeless. And to get to that state in a country like Canada means you majorly fucked something up (ie you have a major drug problem). I mean, we have safety nets and programs out the wazoo!

I'm not worried about the middle class because they may not be able to buy a new TV or smartphone (hell, even the lower class can do those things these days). I'm worried about them because if they get squeezed into the lower class it leaves us with an old-fashioned two-class system with a massive barrier between the lower class "plebs" and the much more powerful upper ruling class.

I'm lower upper class myself, but most of my relatives fall in the middle class bracket. These are well-educated, hard-working and intelligent people. But they're not doing well right now. They work long hours, they're stressed and they don't take time off. They're trying to build an actual future for themselves. Now they're being asked to give even more. Most of them don't own a business, but they'll have to give more anyway by way of inflated prices brought on by this higher minimum wage. And for those who do own small businesses, working 60 - 80 hours per week to make it work in the noncompetitive Ontario market, they're at their wits end.

 

[Toke]

LMAO
What are you talking about? The lower-class working people (which is what we're talking about in this thread) are not homeless, nor starving. Hell, it's only a very small subset of the population that could maybe be characterized as malnourished, and even less as homeless. And to get to that state in a country like Canada means you majorly fucked something up (ie you have a major drug problem). I mean, we have safety nets and programs out the wazoo!

I'm not worried about the middle class because they may not be able to buy a new TV or smartphone (hell, even the lower class can do those things these days). I'm worried about them because if they get squeezed into the lower class it leaves us with an old-fashioned two-class system with a massive barrier between the lower class "plebs" and the much more powerful upper ruling class.

I'm lower upper class myself, but most of my relatives fall in the middle class bracket. These are well-educated, hard-working and intelligent people. But they're not doing well right now. They work long hours, they're stressed and they don't take time off. They're trying to build an actual future for themselves. Now they're being asked to give even more. Most of them don't own a business, but they'll have to give more anyway by way of inflated prices brought on by this higher minimum wage. And for those who do own small businesses, working 60 - 80 hours per week to make it work in the noncompetitive Ontario market, they're at their wits end.

Now imagine how someone making minimum wage feels...

 

[rhuarc29]

Now imagine how someone making minimum wage feels...

Like they should have worked harder in school?

 

[Toke]

Like they should have worked harder in school?

Nope. That doesn't work. If everyone had degrees, someone would still have to make your sandwich for minimum wage.

 

[malata]

Like they should have worked harder in school?

but yet, there are way too many university grads with minimum wage jobs

 

[Toke]

but yet, there are way too many university grads with minimum wage jobs

This too.

 

[eternalbachelor]

Now imagine how someone making minimum wage feels...

if they are hot females I hope they feel like sleeping with me for money and if they are not hot or females then I don't care as long as they don't have the guts to start riots

 

[Smallcock]

but yet, there are way too many university grads with minimum wage jobs

We could always use more escorts. I'm actually shocked that there aren't tens of thousands more considering the job and future prospects of millennials.