No conservative platform

up4it

Member
Jul 2, 2002
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toronto
Can someone please tell me how anyone can vote for a party that is trying to hide it's platform? I'm giving them the credit that they do actually have some plans if they get elected - but it seems like they are afraid to state those plans. In the debate Layton flat out asked Harper what he's going to do if elected and Harper didn't say anything! He just looked at Harper closed mouthed! How can you vote for a party that is afraid to promote what they want to do?

If you choose to respond please say why you want the conservatives in - not why you don't want another party in.
 

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
7,133
2
0
In the laboratory.
Sheik said:
The NDP are socialists and you already know what socialism means.
South of the border it means $700 billion for Wall Street.

jwm
 

emerging44

Member
Sep 19, 2006
236
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up4it said:
Can someone please tell me how anyone can vote for a party that is trying to hide it's platform? I'm giving them the credit that they do actually have some plans if they get elected - but it seems like they are afraid to state those plans. In the debate Layton flat out asked Harper what he's going to do if elected and Harper didn't say anything! He just looked at Harper closed mouthed! How can you vote for a party that is afraid to promote what they want to do?

If you choose to respond please say why you want the conservatives in - not why you don't want another party in.
Harper has done his usual sneaky stuff and announced his platform today! He listened to everyone else and then picked the stuff he thinks will work. What a prick!
 

emerging44

Member
Sep 19, 2006
236
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Sheik said:
We all know the green shift/ carbon tax will be a financial disaster, its the wrong time to be bringing in more taxes. NDP and Liberals want to increase taxes.
You're just repeating Harpers lies.
The Green Shift program is actually an incentive plan for people to do the right thing. This is going to happen one way or the other.
 

clubber

Member
Aug 11, 2006
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Harper did NOT give us an income tax break. What he did was give us 2 1% GST tax breaks and lowered corporate taxes. He did however fool many people by taking away an income tax already given us by the previous Liberal government and then a year or so later give it back.

The green shift will give us lower income taxes, but raise taxes for heating and other areas of polution. The income taxes are suppose give the average individual more money in income tax breaks and more money in coporate taxes while shifting the burden of taxes more to those that give off green house gases. Most people are suppose to get more in income tax cuts than they will pay out. Most companies are suppose to get more in tax breaks than they will pay out. The big tax losers are the ones those that give off the most green house gases. This plan idea has worked well in other countries. The Green Party was the first to suggest it for Canada and their green shift and their one is much stronger.

This Thread however is about the lack of Conservative Platform. There is plenty of liberal bashing threads. This thread is to discuss the mandate that the Conservatives are asking for? Why should we vote for them? What are they going to do to our country. So far their record is really bad.
 

Mcluhan

New member
Sheik said:
*lol*

Its amazing what Liberals will do for publicity.....

The vandalism was most likely done by Liberals that were DESPERATE for publicity.... just pay a little more attention.

Wise men often listen before they speak and with the changing economy south of the border we have to be on the ball.
Define 'changing economy'
 

slowpoke

New member
Oct 22, 2004
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Sheik said:
Then tell me exactly what they have done that is bad besides the income trust issue.

The Liberals never reduced income taxes or the GST prior to Harper. Show me where this so called reduction was.....
Hey! WTF is wrong with your head?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chrétien

First term as Prime Minister
On November 4, 1993, Chrétien was appointed by Governor General Ray Hnatyshyn as prime minister. While Trudeau, Joe Clark and Mulroney had been relative political outsiders prior to becoming prime minister, Chrétien had served in every Liberal cabinet since 1965. This experience gave him a masterful knowledge of the Canadian parliamentary system, and allowed Chrétien to establish a very centralized government that, although highly efficient, was also lambasted by critics as being a "friendly dictatorship" and intolerant of internal dissent.

Chrétien turned most of his attention to clearing away the massive debt he had inherited from the Mulroney / Campbell era. He was assisted by Martin. The government began a program of deep cuts to provincial transfers and other areas of government finance. During his tenure as Prime Minister, a $42 billion deficit was eliminated, five consecutive budget surpluses were recorded, $36 billion in debt was paid down, and taxes were cut by $100 billion (cumulatively) over 5 years, the largest tax cut in Canadian history.[3] There were, however, undeniable costs associated with this endeavour. The cuts would result in fewer government services, most noticeably in the health care sector, as major reductions in federal funding to the provinces meant significant cuts in service delivery. Moreover, the across-the- board cuts affected the operations and achievement of the mandate of most federal departments. Many of the cuts would be restored in later years of Chrétien's period in office.

One of Chrétien's main focuses in office was preventing the separation of the province of Quebec, which was ruled by the separatist Parti Québécois for nearly the Prime Minister's entire term. After the 1995 referendum very narrowly defeated a proposal on Quebec sovereignty, the government passed what became known as the Clarity Act, which said that no Canadian government would acknowledge a Quebec declaration of independence unless a "clear majority" supported sovereignty in a referendum based on a "clear question", as defined by the Parliament of Canada. The size of a "clear majority" was left unspecified, but the Supreme Court of Canada made it clear that such a majority would not be "50% plus one vote".
 

Mcluhan

New member
Sheik said:
Look at our biggest trading partner.... most of Canada's business is with the states. All the changes in the states is going to affect us in one way or another. If the government in power of our country doesnt pay attention, we could be in very serious trouble in no time at all.

Thats what I mean by changing economy. People are belt tightening and with that comes a lower level of spending which means fewer goods and services being provided. All this is going to have a very dramatic effect on the economy of the states in addition to the financial market crisis.

You are aware that Dion has missed several deadlines to pay back loans for his leadership bid? Are you sure you want someone who cant even manage his own finances running a country?
My short answer, and i'll let you off this hook, for now, is that as long as non of these 'leaders' get a clear majority, the potential damage is contained.
 

Mcluhan

New member
Sheik said:
And I agree..... as long as all the parties function as a government should and stop all the threating.

We need to deal with the major issues in a sensible manner and not a knee jerk manner like we see with Mayor Miller.

I have a load of relatives that are always complaining about Miller. I listen to it at Thanksgiving and Christmas and Easter. I could care less, because i don't live in the big smoke. But I am a citizen of the world, and a cat 5 is upon me. I'm using 3/4 inch for this one, don't know about you....
 

Bearlythere

Lost IN the Shwa
Aug 20, 2001
1,168
179
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Oshawa
Harper may seem sneaky to a Libreal who is used to being lied to by his own party and calling it policy, but Harper is a pragmatic Conservative who you know what he is about if you follow politics. He is a small C conservative, who has a sense of fiscal responsiblity and not trying new and untried and discredited public policy.

It is really simple. You elect Dion, he either taxes the hell out of us to "help" the country go Green, or he realizes 10 minutes after he is elected he cant do what promised. You either have to be naive or stupid to believe any other road is possible. The green shift carbon tax policy is just another attempt to make paying through the nose for Libreal pork barrel policies. If you believe his plan will work, why didn't he do it when he was in the cabinet of the government there was NO attempt at any changes to make Canada more "green" . The global warming craze is just another method for the political left to alienate and fool people.

Harper is not exciting, nor real charismatic guy but he is logical and unemotoinal about how he figures out the best course. He isn't going to take money out of MY pocket to suit the wishes of some David Suzuki love fest and I wont be put of work by it either. Layton and Dion? They have yet to learn Keynesian economic theory is BS and doesn't work. Just look at the mess left over from the left wing social engineers when they put the banking system into the US mortgage business...
 

Bearlythere

Lost IN the Shwa
Aug 20, 2001
1,168
179
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Oshawa
One more thought. Many of you think Sheik and I are idiots or think less of our sanity for being Conservative supporters. Let me put it to you this way. For close to 60 years the Libreals were the dominent power in Canada. Did they do a good job? AT times.....yes they did. Yet what we are looking at now isn't your Grandfather's Libreal party. This party is led by a man who cant even manage his own parties finances. Most of his caucas will stab him in the back in a heartbeat if they lose this election. He cant lead the people who know him best through one election, I wouldn't support him for the job of running the Government.

Stephen Harper proved in the last 2 years that he isn't going to do anything stupid with an economic shit storm about to hit us. Trying to cut Canada's green house gases by taxing everyone to death to buy gas or fuel will kill the economy. Trucking companies (which of one I drive for) will have a swift kick in the cubes by more taxes on diesel fuel. Where do you think they will get the money to pay for this? They will take it out of the shippers and they will in turn take that extra cost and put on the price of the products they sell. Can you say inflation? More money so PM Dion can play god. No thanks...I would have to say I know how to spend my money and I don't need some economic no mind stuck in Keynesian theory to spend my money on my behalf. I don't need my self anoited social betters to decide what is best for me or my well being.

Conservatives are more about giving most people more freedom in their lives, Dion and Layton are more about telling you how stupid you are to live the life you live and how they can make your life better. If you dispute this...you have not really been paying attention have you?
 

Mcluhan

New member
Sheik said:
Then make sure its airtight as well.


To get back on topic, I was doing some reading up....
Non of these three idiots (el Bloc and Green excluded) has a clue how to talk sensibly, eye-to-eye to the average Canadian voter right now. I could do better in 20 min off the cuff. The problem is, they have too many advisor's and all have no moorings based in the complex problems of the moment that is upon us. Three weeks is a year in this situation. If you were to take one personality trait, one lone top strength from each of the three wandering fools and make those into a whole argument personified, the 4th ideal candidate, what would those three strengths be? Add baking soda for a fast set, and pour into the mold....
 

Mcluhan

New member
Sheik said:
We all know what governing by committee does.... The Libs scare me and the thought of possibly Bob Rae being finance minister is giving me a nervous breakdown.....

Of the 3, Harper has a background in economics, the only one really qualified to understand what's going on. Out of the 3, he is really the only one I'm comfortable with.
The devil you know. Unfortunately, I agree.
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
2,102
3
48
Sheik said:
We all know what governing by committee does.... The Libs scare me and the thought of possibly Bob Rae being finance minister is giving me a nervous breakdown.....

Of the 3, Harper has a background in economics, the only one really qualified to understand what's going on. Out of the 3, he is really the only one I'm comfortable with.
You are so right. It amazes me how soon people forget the sponsorship scandal and the horrible leadership Rae provided for Ontario. As for carbon taxes, we already pay them with increasing fuel prices. If they want to make green changes, run incentives.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,556
10
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Sheik said:
He's right..... all you have to do is look at what McGuinty has done.
yeah that bastard balanced the books after the last conservative govt ran a deficit.
 

elmo

Registered User
Oct 23, 2002
4,720
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here and there
Sheik said:
Of the 3, Harper has a background in economics, the only one really qualified to understand what's going on. Out of the 3, he is really the only one I'm comfortable with.
I'd put it another way, Harper is the one I'm least uncomfortable with...
 

slowpoke

New member
Oct 22, 2004
2,899
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Sheik said:
We all know what governing by committee does.... The Libs scare me and the thought of possibly Bob Rae being finance minister is giving me a nervous breakdown.....

Of the 3, Harper has a background in economics, the only one really qualified to understand what's going on. Out of the 3, he is really the only one I'm comfortable with.
Harper may have a background in economics but he's ideologically married to his "hands off" approach to managing our economy. He's so committed to this small government mantra that he's blind to any alternative solutions. This is an open letter signed by over 80 leading economists who think he should be much more interventionist to combat this crisis. Of course Harper is too bull headed to listen.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...r_081008/20081008?s_name=election2008&no_ads=

....On Monday some 230 academic economists spoke out in favour of a carbon tax as the best way to address climate change. On Tuesday 120 leading climate scientists urged the public to vote "strategically" to protect the environment.

Both those interventions were welcomed by Liberal Leader Stephane Dion and Green leader Elizabeth May, who took them as helpful to their campaigns.

The economists who signed the latest letter cite a "deepening global financial crisis, the decline in world commodity prices and the growing possibility of global recession" as signals that Canadians can't ignore.

On the domestic front, they note that "macroeconomic performance has weakened dramatically" since the Conservatives took office in 2006.

They point to job losses in the manufacturing sector, stalled economic growth, declining productivity and heavy consumer debt.

Until now those problems have been masked by booming commodity prices and a housing bubble, but both those trends are ending, they say.

"The dramatic events of recent weeks have destroyed the idea that markets are best left to their own, unregulated devices," says the letter. "Government and its financial institutions must now show leadership and play a more active role."

The economists call for measures to stimulate investment and job-creation, including spending on infrastructure and projects to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, as well as initiatives to spur construction of affordable housing and ease the credit crunch.

They also say Ottawa must strengthen income-support programs, in particular by beefing up employment insurance.

They note the federal budget is barely in balance at this time and say there's a danger it could slip into deficit -- but insist that would be preferable to doing nothing.

"It is far better to maintain public programs to support employment and incomes, even at the cost of a cyclical deficit."
 

slowpoke

New member
Oct 22, 2004
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Sheik said:
Slowpoke..... you're a diehard Liberal....

Change must be voluntarily applied, not rammed down our throats as a carbon tax. Instead of taxing us, give us INCENTIVES. I already took my incentives and purchased a vehicle with more than double the gas mileage of my previous one.

My heating bills are expensive because I live in an older house that was never insulated when it was built. One room at a time I've been renovating and insulating, it will take me a couple of years before I'm done. My incentive is cheaper heating bills. Forcing me to pay carbon tax instead of allowing me to slowly renovate will delay the renovations.

Now with today's economy taking a nose dive, introduction of more taxes is not going to help matters. Look at Mc Guinty who gave Miller the power to add taxes and see what Miller has done already. Increased vehicle sticker renewals taxes for vehicles inside the city of Toronto and Increased land transfer taxes for all property transfers.... what happened as a result? Home sales dropped resulting in even less tax collected by the city if they had just left it alone.

One has to think both long term & short term when it comes to taxation. Is an incentive better than a tax or is a tax better than an incentive? As for beefing up employment insurance, there is an astronomical surplus in the EI fund. If anything the rates should be lowered.

As for the federal budget.... remember taxes were lowered which means less income coming in. All it means is that the federal govt has some belt tightening to do which is exactly what we do when our income is lower or we spent a little too fast.
You mean we need these kinds of incentives?

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=a7c0fd0b-a65d-4b58-9f3d-8b073d69692e

Dion earmarks $900 million for Green Shift incentives
Juliet O'Neill , Canwest News Service
Published: Wednesday, September 03, 2008
WINNIPEG - Liberal Leader Stephane Dion allocated $900 million from his carbon tax proposal Wednesday for incentives for fuel conservation and related measures for the trucking, farming, fishing and forestry industries......


Or are you referring to Harper's ecoAUTO program that will soon expire???

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv....wparkinsonbudget0226/BNStory/budget2008/home

...Meanwhile, another program aimed at encouraging greener vehicles – the ecoAUTO Rebate program, which delivered rebates of up to $2,000 to people buying fuel-efficient vehicles – will be allowed to expire next year after it runs its two-year course.....
 

train

New member
Jul 29, 2002
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slowpoke said:
You mean we need these kinds of incentives?

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=a7c0fd0b-a65d-4b58-9f3d-8b073d69692e

Dion earmarks $900 million for Green Shift incentives
Juliet O'Neill , Canwest News Service
Published: Wednesday, September 03, 2008
WINNIPEG - Liberal Leader Stephane Dion allocated $900 million from his carbon tax proposal Wednesday for incentives for fuel conservation and related measures for the trucking, farming, fishing and forestry industries......

...
Are you confident that we actually know where the pay back or incentive part of his plan actually goes. In one speech he says it's going to low income tax payers and in this article in says it's for incentives. I take it this is another moving Liberal platform ?
 
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