The Porn Dude

No NHL lockout in 2012

Babypowder

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Oct 28, 2007
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There won't be a lockout.

Seven years ago, the owners held a powerful upper hand. And more important, the issues were different. Gary Bettman wisely hired Arthur Levitt, the former Chairman of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), to produce an audit showing the NHL lost $232 million US in 2003-04.

That gave Bettman public support and believability. The owners were told by their agent, the NHL commissioner, that they could gain a $1 billion with a new CBA and they certainly faced the prospect of losing money if they ran a season. It was an easy decision to shut down.

All Bettman is after in this negotiation is to do what both the NFL and NBA did and trim the players’ percentage of revenues. With the wonderful growth since the last CBA, the players now earn 57 per cent of hockey-related revenues (HRR) and have been getting larger absolute dollar amounts.

Smaller percentage of a shrinking pie
The NFL and NBA sliced the players take, and Bettman wants to achieve a similar deal. In simplest terms, he’s out for 50/50, with a few alterations in the definition of HRR – which would further chisel the players’ share.

A smaller percentage of a shrinking pie. He'd like the free agency and arbitration concessions from the last CBA to go and to limit contracts to five years in length. In addition, the owners propose not tying the cap amount to a percentage of revenues, suggesting players receive $58 million, then $60 million then $62 million before tying the cap to revenues over the last three years of the deal. This too would grab back cash for the owners.

Lastly, Bettman's offer to split any revenue growth beyond 10 per cent equally with the players is shrewd, because by redefining HRR, it’s unlikely the growth rate will be larger than in years past.

Don Fehr's response was in the realm of Bettman's hiring of Levitt. Instead of countering the NHL offer, he created an alternative mechanism to slow the growth in absolute amount of pay over the first three years of the new CBA. Not a cut or reduction in pay, just a slowing of growth in pay, thus reducing what the players would have received at 57 per cent, a concession to ownership.

He also suggests a revenue-sharing kitty, distributed by the commissioner to assist weak teams. Fehr is saying the players gave the NHL what it needed in 2005, a cap, a rollback on salaries of 24 per cent, and that the gains the players made on contract structuring are off the table. That's very Marvin Miller. Contract structure always trumped dollars for Millar, the former MLBPA executive director.

Role of agents?
In 2004-05, the player agents were all over the map in their bid to outflank their own leadership, and I always felt they played a divisive role which busted that union. They’re not really sending great signals this time either. By signing veteran players to long deals, they’re indicating they believe the owners will win and that they only stand to make less in a new deal. It doesn’t matter. And these agents will not tangle with Fehr.

Times have changed. The owners face losing 7.1 per cent revenue growth and the profits that entails.

I want to thank Rod Fort, economics professor at University of Michigan, as always for his guiding hand in dissecting the game we're in. As Fort points out, Fehr has been in precisely this position many times at the MLBPA. Every time the PA stood its ground, there was never a lockout. The wildcard would be player solidarity. Fehr will keep them in check, and Bettman will make a deal.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2012/09/04/spf-nhl-nhlpa-cba-ron-maclean.html
 

Pugsley

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Jul 18, 2009
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Bettman is by far the worst pro league commish in history.
He wants his league to advertise itself by having his teams owners sign players to Big Multi-Million $ Dollar contracts.... to make the League look big league... then he wants to have an escrow where they take money back... and now even with an escrow.. he wants to change the percentages in the owners favour so drastically... that fellow hockey fans spells lockout after every contract expiry. He announces higher salary caps and cap minimums to be spent - then wants the players to give more money back....
Bottom line.. should be NO escrow!!
Make the owners pay what they can afford to pay in salaries and meet a negotiated minimum fair revenue cut for the players..
The owners should control what they spend and not go crying to the players for more.

How would anyone making $35000 a year like it if their boss came back and said... you owe $2000 back at the end of the year.... it would never happen..
but it happens only in Bettman's world - dummer than a Hockey puck. In fact th League would have been way better off with Peter Puck - the cartoon character as its commish.
 

fmahovalich

Active member
Aug 21, 2009
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Pugs...I'm not sure you are grasping the entire list of issues involved here....as much as the owners want a CBA...their managers exploit a loophole in long long long term contracts to get around the cap. And as much as players want a bigger piece of pie, they have gotten huge increases in last few years....without the risks as taken by owners.

This is not an easy one to solve. Money is in the middle.

As much as Bettman may be nerdy or weasly, that is not enough to say HE is wrong!
 

splooge

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May 5, 2010
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I'm in opposition of the view of Ron MacLean and the OP. There will be a lockout. And as for Montreal, any laws in Quebec are not usually regarded with any serious contention outside of the province, so it is not really a return serve for the NHLPA at all. And why wasn't this an issue 7-8 years ago?
 

dirkd101

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2005
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eastern frontier
too much greed on both sides. Lockout is coming
The greed is really on Bettman and the owners. They don't want to let the players work under the old CBA, the one they wanted and had put in place after the last lockout, want to roll salaries back and rework the CBA for their own greed. League wide revenues are up from 2.2 billion to 3.3 billion.
I say let them play under the old CBA until they hammer out an agreement, the players want this and let training camp begin.

Unfortunately, they will be locked out. Not good for the game in the US markets.
 

SweetnSultry

GFE Specialist
I also agree there will be a lock out, but it seems that some Canadian provinces will try to fight it,
however Ontario isnt one of them and as much as I am nto a fan of Ontario hockey teams without them Canadian teams dont have much
but it would have been cool to watch a bunch of all canadian teams goin at it.
BETTMAN is an greedy MoFO!
Somebody should jsut take him out!

Kisses
Sierra
 

WestCoaster

Stiff Member
Aug 25, 2001
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Western Canada
Sorry, if you say no lockout, you are a moron, pure and simple. The owners think they can win like last time, the players went out and got Don Fehr so they don't get taken like last time. Lockout is coming and it's going to be a long one, unless the owners smarten up, it won't be the players who cave this time.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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it won't be the players who cave this time.
For sure they have a better leader in Fehr, however, a lot of players lost a whole year and it hurt. How many players are going be supportive of possibly losing a whole second year of their career if they see this thing dragging on.

The owners always have time on their side and they are wealthier than the players.
 

jrobertson1

Registered Pervert
Oct 8, 2010
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Sorry, if you say no lockout, you are a moron, pure and simple. The owners think they can win like last time, the players went out and got Don Fehr so they don't get taken like last time. Lockout is coming and it's going to be a long one, unless the owners smarten up, it won't be the players who cave this time.
Couldn't agree more, its really not a matter of IF there will be a lockout, more of matter of how long the lockout will be.
Owners are greedy, and the players aren't backing down
I highly doubt the lockout will last the whole season again, but I wouldn't surprised if there's no NHL hockey for the remainder of 2012
Never underestimate how stupid Bettman can be
 

johnhenrygalt

Active member
Jan 7, 2002
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Never underestimate how stupid Bettman can be
Now that is a truly stupid statement. If you look at the academic and professional achievements of Gary Bettman, it's clear he's certainly in the top 5% of the population in terms of intelligence. He's also a good negotiator, and anyone who can keep 30 prima donna owners on the same page has exceptional talents. Donald Fehr is also very intelligent and is also an excellent negotiator. Hence the impasse.
 

splooge

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May 5, 2010
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...But Linden, Lindros, Bob Goodenow, etc.. maybe not so much. For sure, Fehr is a better leader, but to keep all 700+ players content when .5% of them make 82% of the salary... I'm not sure that's possible.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,935
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...But Linden, Lindros, Bob Goodenow, etc.. maybe not so much. For sure, Fehr is a better leader, but to keep all 700+ players content when .5% of them make 82% of the salary... I'm not sure that's possible.
You're saying 35 players make 82%?

If average team salary was $50M times 30 teams is $1.5B. That means 35 players make over $1.2B/year which is about $35M each/year. Doesn't sound right to me.
 

kirmit129

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Sep 30, 2004
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You're saying 35 players make 82%?

If average team salary was $50M times 30 teams is $1.5B. That means 35 players make over $1.2B/year which is about $35M each/year. Doesn't sound right to me.
No, he's saying around 4 players. 700+ players X .5% is around 4 players. :p
 

Ironhead

Son of the First Nation
Sep 13, 2008
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Quebec court rules in favour of the NHL.
Montreal is locked out along with the rest of the league.
 
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