Garden of Eden Escorts

Owner of all-electric Nissan Leaf frustrated by difficulty of getting new battery

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,061
3,100
113
Just another reason why I'm not sold on electric vehicles. People rave about how little it costs to charge their car. Yet, nobody factors in the cost of a replacement battery. As an example, I calculated what my wife spends yearly on gas for her Corolla. It works out to $0.065 per km. So she spends $1,300 a year on fuel based on driving 20,000 km. By comparison, the Leaf owner needs a new $15,000 battery after 7 years, not including the cost to charge the vehicle. In the same timeframe, my wife has spent $9,100. Not to mention, my wife's car has virtually unlimited range.

You might think that Nissan, the first car-maker to achieve widespread success with a zero-emissions electric vehicle, cares deeply about the environment. But Clayton Brander isn't so sure.

Three years ago, the Powell River, B.C., resident chose to buy a used 2013 Nissan Leaf, motivated by a keen interest in sustainability.

"I love the car," he said. "Honestly, in three years and 40,000 kilometres, I've replaced a set of tires and windshield wiper fluid. Nothing breaks down. It's a fantastic little vehicle. I think electric vehicles are the way to go."

But nowadays, instead of being able to drive the 120 km that 2013 Leafs could initially go on a full charge, Brander can't get much more than 80 km. He has even become hesitant about turning on the heat or window defroster, since using those features require battery power and will reduce his driving range even further.

Brander always knew that batteries lose capacity over time, and he figured it wouldn't be a problem getting a new one.

"The dealership where I bought the car said that in a few years, you can replace the battery for about $5,000," said Brander.


But now, he can't find one. He's tried two nearby Nissan dealerships, three local repair shops and contacted Nissan Canada.

"Nissan hasn't been helpful. I've sent probably six emails to them," said Brander. "They keep telling me to go to the dealership. I called my local dealership and they sent emails to Nissan Canada. Six weeks later, neither of us has gotten a response."

Both dealerships told him that a new battery — if he can find one — could cost him at least $15,000, which would be more than he paid for the vehicle in the first place.


His local dealership has encouraged him to solve the issue by simply purchasing a brand-new Nissan Leaf. The basic 2020 model costs $42,000 and can travel about 240 km on a full charge. That suggestion doesn't seem very sustainable to Brander.

"It seems like these things are going to end up in the landfill," he said. "It makes more sense for them financially, I imagine, to sell new cars than to service the old cars."


The Nissan Leaf has long been the world's best-selling electric vehicle, surpassed for the first time in 2020 by Tesla's Model S, according to Nissan and Tesla's own figures.

Olivier Trescases, a professor at the University of Toronto's Electric Vehicle Research Centre, said Nissan deserves credit for being a pioneer.

"They were one of the first to release a compelling electric vehicle with a reasonable range and most importantly, a low price point," he said.

But he added that one of the design "compromises" Nissan initially made in order to keep production costs down was to not install an advanced cooling system for its batteries. "They were using a chemistry that was particularly temperature-sensitive, and they did not use expensive liquid cooling."


That means the battery's capacity is reduced more quickly. In 2012, Leaf owners in California and Arizona launched a class-action lawsuit claiming the car's driving range was lower than advertised.

The company settled the suit and extended the battery capacity warranty to five years on models made from 2013 onward. Later, Nissan extended the warranty to eight years on models made after 2016.

As well, a battery replacement program for first-generation Leafs was launched in the U.S. A new one cost $5,499 US, plus labour, but the program was discontinued in early 2018.


After an inquiry about Clayton Brander's situation from CBC's Go Public team, Nissan declined an interview but released a statement via email. It said Nissan Canada will conduct an inspection of Brander's vehicle and is "hopeful to find a resolution."

Contacted by phone, the head of corporate communications for Nissan Canada wouldn't clarify if that means that they would find him a new battery, or at what price.

The statement also pointed out the environmental impact of the Leaf, saying owners around the world have driven 4.8 billion kilometres and helped to prevent "more than 2.4 billion kilograms of CO2 emissions."

Trescases believes Nissan should show more loyalty to its first customers. "Some of these early adopters helped them to get the car out on the market, get some acceptance and go from there."

Nissan Canada says more than 3,300 Canadians have purchased Leafs built prior to 2015.

Trescases said the challenge of replacing batteries in older electric cars shouldn't discourage buyers of newer models, explaining the latest EV batteries are incredibly efficient.


"Today, companies are talking about million-mile batteries," he said. "That's a big buzzword, but let's say they even get close to that — that means that the battery will actually outlive the car by a long stretch."

Last year, Nissan began powering streetlights in Japan and a stadium in the Netherlands with batteries from cars no longer in use.

At just seven years old, Brander's Leaf is newer than most cars on the road in Canada, where the average vehicle is 10 years old. (In B.C., the average is 11.)

He remains determined to hang on to the vehicle, ideally with a new battery. He's happy that Nissan Canada finally got in touch with him after the inquiry from CBC News, but he's puzzled why the company says the vehicle needs to be tested. He said he already paid $130 for a battery test at a local dealership.

"The fact that I don't get enough driving range out of this one is all that's needed to determine that I need a new battery," he said.

He'd like to see Nissan show some loyalty to its most faithful fans, by helping keep the cars on the road for as long as possible.

"They got all the kudos for introducing the electric vehicles to the masses, so that looks really good," he said.

"But they're losing them now by not supporting these older models and just pushing new vehicle sales, instead of saying, 'Look, we can still keep these out of the landfill.'"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle-new-battery-1.5769998
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle-new-battery-1.5769998
 

Nokia-Guy

Active member
Oct 17, 2002
482
92
28
but what about oil changes and other maintenance items? Like water pump, sparkplug changes, and any other mechanical related in 7 yrs or 140,000km ownership? I think you would have to do timing belt adjustment too with that milage.
your calculation is $0.065 per km if indeed true, then your car's consumption is 6.5L / 100km... does that sound right? that's a very efficient vehicle... not trying to argue, but just want this to be a healthy discussion.
I don't own an EV, but i think the benefit is also that it eliminated the engine maintenance, and with braking re-gen, it safes on brake pads too... but that's hard to be tangible, however the benefit is there
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,061
3,100
113
but what about oil changes and other maintenance items? Like water pump, sparkplug changes, and any other mechanical related in 7 yrs or 140,000km ownership? I think you would have to do timing belt adjustment too with that milage.
your calculation is $0.065 per km if indeed true, then your car's consumption is 6.5L / 100km... does that sound right? that's a very efficient vehicle... not trying to argue, but just want this to be a healthy discussion.
I don't own an EV, but i think the benefit is also that it eliminated the engine maintenance, and with braking re-gen, it safes on brake pads too... but that's hard to be tangible, however the benefit is there
Of course oil changes are extra, but so it the cost to charge an EV. Hers is 10 years old and the only thing she's had to replace (other than brakes) is the alternator and battery. Total for for less than $500.00. As for fuel mileage, it's rated for 7.5L/100km city; 5.6L/100km highway. She does mostly highway driving so that's right in the ballpark. It has a timing chain so no adjustment or replacement required. Plugs need replacing at 200,000 kms and they're cheap.

My point is, EV aren't currently as economical to operate as one thinks. And the range on that Leaf really sucks, even with a new battery.

EV's are still an emerging technology. Its purpose is to transition us from fossil fuels. Resistance is futile.
I'd gladly buy one if it made sense. Currently they don't, as least not to me.
 
Last edited:

yomero5

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2017
1,976
490
83
EVs are so expensive, most are over 40k, and they are all ugly except for the overpriced Teslas. I'd rather spend money over time for maintenance, than pay upfront 10-15 k for a vehicle that will not last much beyond 10 years because the batteries are too expensive to replace. by 2050, we will have no room for our single use plastics in our land fills because they will be overflowing with 10 year old EVs, LOL! Don't environmentalists know this, or are they in denial?
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
10,775
9,527
113
EVs are so expensive, most are over 40k, and they are all ugly except for the overpriced Teslas. I'd rather spend money over time for maintenance, than pay upfront 10-15 k for a vehicle that will not last much beyond 10 years because the batteries are too expensive to replace. by 2050, we will have no room for our single use plastics in our land fills because they will be overflowing with 10 year old EVs, LOL! Don't environmentalists know this, or are they in denial?
Tree huggers are in massive denial.
Mining the necessary metals(nickel,cobalt and lithium to name a few) is definitely not enviro friendly.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,061
3,100
113
EV's are still an emerging technology. Its purpose is to transition us from fossil fuels. Resistance is futile.
Tree huggers are in massive denial.
Mining the necessary metals(nickel,cobalt and lithium to name a few) is definitely not enviro friendly.
In fact, the total embedded CO2 for the making of a gasoline-powered car is 5.6 tonnes. By contrast, it takes 8.8 tonnes to make an electric vehicle and the battery accounts for nearly half of that. So electric vehicles arrive on the street with a higher carbon footprint even before you plug them in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shakenbake

anon1

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2001
10,733
2,650
113
Tranquility Base, La Luna
Once we have been assimulated, there will be a lot fewer cars on the road.
EV's will be autonomous and not likely to be privately owned.
 
Last edited:

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,625
2,715
113
There are lots of options. He does not seem to know how to use the internet. Also he probably kept the thing plugged in all the time. The early Leaf did not havve very good battery management or cooling. This is a 7 year old car BTW>
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,625
2,715
113
In fact, the total embedded CO2 for the making of a gasoline-powered car is 5.6 tonnes. By contrast, it takes 8.8 tonnes to make an electric vehicle and the battery accounts for nearly half of that. So electric vehicles arrive on the street with a higher carbon footprint even before you plug them in.
So how much gas consumption does it take to close that gap? Probably about 3500 liters.? Also you have to remember a lot of EVs are Teslas which have huge battteries.
 

barnacler

Well-known member
May 13, 2013
1,530
931
113
So how much gas consumption does it take to close that gap? Probably about 3500 liters.? Also you have to remember a lot of EVs are Teslas which have huge battteries.
In discussions of electric versus gas, it is important to distinguish between costs including subsidies and taxes, compared to pure economical costs before government interference.

People talk about how cheap it is to fuel EVs, but economically, that is because they are subsidized and gas vehicles are taxed heavily. Remove all the taxes on gas, and the subsidies on EV and gas wins. which is why gas cars have been the way to go until governments decided to change things. That is precisely why governments must FORCE the use of EV.
 

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
6,745
1,591
113
Oblivion
The rare earth metals necessary for these batteries come from China to a great extent. Backwards Bolivia which is a corruption plagued sometimes narca state sits on vast undeveloped lithium deposits where China will likely be a partner in their development than America.. Ultimately, electric cars battery manufacturing will be beholden to China. Battery disposal will not be China’s problem though.

Ironically, electric dump trucks will be used to clean up the obscene ecological disaster associated with the oil sands projects long after I am gone.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,995
5,409
113
Lewiston, NY
China will create a waste disposal site @ Mir A Lago, FL...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RLTF

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
14,672
2,454
113
Ghawar
EV's are still an emerging technology. Its purpose is to transition us from fossil fuels. Resistance is futile.
EV is for the affluent. Resistance from the mass is futile because they
can't afford it anyway.
 

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
6,745
1,591
113
Oblivion
EV is for the affluent. Resistance from the mass is futile because they
can't afford it anyway.
China will bring EV to their masses and replace affluence with necessity. The spill over effect will go viral around the world .
 

Knuckle Ball

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2017
7,732
4,075
113
EV is for the affluent. Resistance from the mass is futile because they
can't afford it anyway.
Most new technologies start out like this- they are initially sold as luxuries for the affluent. It they actually work then the technology trickles down to the masses over time.

Features like anti-lock brakes and air conditioning used to only be available on luxury cars...now all cars have them.
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
10,775
9,527
113
Personally I feel hydrogen fuel cells are the way to go not this plug in crap.
 
Toronto Escorts