Actualy yesottawasub said:
free speach is one of the foundations we support?
But I might not greive over their death
Pat Robertson calls for Chavez's Assassination.
- Thread starter tompeepin
- Start date
free speach is one of the foundations we support?
But I might not greive over their death
bring democracy to the world
I agree OTB we need to put a democratic government in Venezuela so that capitalist hegemony can reign. As we know that any socialist goverment is Communist. It is the damn same thing.
---
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/ve.html
"elections: president elected by popular vote for a six-year term; election last held 30 July 2000 (next to be held NA 2006)"
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35766.htm
"Venezuela has enjoyed an unbroken tradition of civilian democratic rule. This earned Venezuela a reputation as one of the more stable democracies in Latin America."
"In December 1998, Hugo Chavez Frias won the presidency on a campaign for broad reform, constitutional change, and a crackdown on corruption."
---
It is about time we rig those fucking elections before the other side does it.
---
By Robert Jensen, a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin
"Imagine the scandal if a foreign government had for years funneled millions of dollars to political groups in the United States in an attempt to affect the outcome of a U.S. election. Even worse, what if some of the groups that received money had been involved in a failed coup attempt against a democratically elected U.S. president? Would the U.S. public not have a right to be outraged at the attempt to manipulate our political process?
Of course we would -- which is why the people of Venezuela have a right to be outraged at the U.S. government's ongoing attempts to meddle in the electoral process in Venezuela.
On Sunday (Aug. 15), Venezuelans will go to the polls for a referendum on the recall of President Hugo Chavez. Polls show Chavez running 8 to 31 percentage points ahead. But whatever the result, Bush administration actions in Venezuela should alert the U.S. public that the commitment to "expanding democracy" we hear so much about is largely rhetorical cover for the typical U.S. interference in the politics of nations in Latin America -- and around the world.
The vehicle for this meddling in Venezuela is the National Endowment for Democracy, which calls itself "a private, nonprofit organization" but is funded by U.S. taxpayers. Its self-described mission is "to strengthen democratic institutions around the world through nongovernmental efforts."
In the case of Venezuela, "strengthening democratic institutions" has meant financing groups that helped carry out the failed coup attempt against Chavez in April 2002. Coup leaders representing the traditional oligarchy in Venezuela, and their supporters in the U.S. government, saw a "problem": Chavez is genuinely interested in a fairer distribution of wealth and refuses to subordinate his country to U.S. policy. Their "solution" was a coup that lasted for 48 hours, during which an illegal decree installed a businessman as president and dissolved the National Assembly and the Supreme Court. The United States quickly backed the coup, until loyal officers and civilian groups restored Chavez to office." ... continued at http://counterpunch.org/jensen08112004.html
I agree OTB we need to put a democratic government in Venezuela so that capitalist hegemony can reign. As we know that any socialist goverment is Communist. It is the damn same thing.
---
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/ve.html
"elections: president elected by popular vote for a six-year term; election last held 30 July 2000 (next to be held NA 2006)"
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35766.htm
"Venezuela has enjoyed an unbroken tradition of civilian democratic rule. This earned Venezuela a reputation as one of the more stable democracies in Latin America."
"In December 1998, Hugo Chavez Frias won the presidency on a campaign for broad reform, constitutional change, and a crackdown on corruption."
---
It is about time we rig those fucking elections before the other side does it.
---
By Robert Jensen, a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin
"Imagine the scandal if a foreign government had for years funneled millions of dollars to political groups in the United States in an attempt to affect the outcome of a U.S. election. Even worse, what if some of the groups that received money had been involved in a failed coup attempt against a democratically elected U.S. president? Would the U.S. public not have a right to be outraged at the attempt to manipulate our political process?
Of course we would -- which is why the people of Venezuela have a right to be outraged at the U.S. government's ongoing attempts to meddle in the electoral process in Venezuela.
On Sunday (Aug. 15), Venezuelans will go to the polls for a referendum on the recall of President Hugo Chavez. Polls show Chavez running 8 to 31 percentage points ahead. But whatever the result, Bush administration actions in Venezuela should alert the U.S. public that the commitment to "expanding democracy" we hear so much about is largely rhetorical cover for the typical U.S. interference in the politics of nations in Latin America -- and around the world.
The vehicle for this meddling in Venezuela is the National Endowment for Democracy, which calls itself "a private, nonprofit organization" but is funded by U.S. taxpayers. Its self-described mission is "to strengthen democratic institutions around the world through nongovernmental efforts."
In the case of Venezuela, "strengthening democratic institutions" has meant financing groups that helped carry out the failed coup attempt against Chavez in April 2002. Coup leaders representing the traditional oligarchy in Venezuela, and their supporters in the U.S. government, saw a "problem": Chavez is genuinely interested in a fairer distribution of wealth and refuses to subordinate his country to U.S. policy. Their "solution" was a coup that lasted for 48 hours, during which an illegal decree installed a businessman as president and dissolved the National Assembly and the Supreme Court. The United States quickly backed the coup, until loyal officers and civilian groups restored Chavez to office." ... continued at http://counterpunch.org/jensen08112004.html
langeweile said:
Very good, lange. There's hope for you yet.
Those problems are not confined to Venezulea nor to Latin America.
Now take those ideas and apply them to the US Republican party: corruption, majority control of assets, common people being second class citizens, the rich taking advantage of the poor by making them do all the wok (i.e. go and fight in Iraq), etc etc.
I have been to six countries in Latin America. What you describe is endemic to the region. Unfortunately, the US has been acting as if it owns the place: failed coup against Chavez, overthrow of Allende, just to name two heinous acts.
tompeepin said:
Hey, I don't care, as Lang said, things are probably so bad that's the only way to build a middle class. It's hard to draw investment capital when the firms investing it might lose their assets when a sector is taken from the private owners but that's an issue I'm sure he'll figure out.
Capitalism is it's own reward, socialism it's own punishment - if they want to have a class war down there I couldn't care less.
OTB
But your current admin, whom you elected and thus represents YOU, could and does care!onthebottom said:
"Imagine the scandal if a foreign government had for years funneled millions of dollars to political groups in the United States in an attempt to affect the outcome of a U.S. election."
Not if it is the Saudi's!
Not if it is the Saudi's!
Trade? did someone say trade? Trade goes beyond any ideology or morality, it is an end in itself. Unless it is softwood lumber, etc.Big Sleazy said:
One word: self interest. Nothing wrong with that but let's call it what it is.
Oh and some would call Canada and several European ok all European countries "Socialist" countries ... no ... no ... sorry ... communist countries!
Welcome back btwtompeepin said:
Yes yes, those State Department guys and gals are trying to make the world safe for US capital........
They may care, they're paid to care, I couldn't give a rat’s posterior about Latin America, but perhaps that's just me.
OTB
Oh I forgot, China owns lots of US debt (bonds). Cuba's got shit! So is it all ideology or rhetoric? Gotta get that electorate behind you. Freedom, democracy and the red white and blue, buys you just about any claim.Big Sleazy said:
When you start nationalizing your resources economy we'll call you communists, until then just an underperforming socialist economy.tompeepin said:Trade? did someone say trade? Trade goes beyond any ideology or morality, it is an end in itself. Unless it is softwood lumber, etc.
One word: self interest. Nothing wrong with that but let's call it what it is.
Oh and some would call Canada and several European ok all European countries "Socialist" countries ... no ... no ... sorry ... communist countries!
LOL
OTB
Thata boy, we could use some new blood on the other side.tompeepin said:
Just to catch you up on the players, Lang and myself are the same, bbking is gone, DQ is still threatening to leave the US but is behaving him self a bit more, TOV is our copy/past anti-bush man and Pecker is pecker.
Batter up.
OTB
Never mind if some foreign religious zealot proposed the assasination, under government auspices, of the US President. Why, I believe the approved term for the zealot is "______________[insert his religious persuasion] fundamentalist terrorist mastermind", and the proper designation of the state whose interest we claim (he need make no such claim, but it can't hurt the case) he is advancing is "rogue state".tompeepin said:"Imagine the scandal if a foreign government had for years funneled millions of dollars to political groups in the United States in an attempt to affect the outcome of a U.S. election."
Not if it is the Saudi's!
Precedent establishes that the mastermind's (I know it's bizarre when applied to Robertson, but it is the official term) connection w/ the rogue state need not be anything near so direct as it is in this case to justify a massive pre-emptive strike, w/o UN approval, and the prolonged occupation of that state.
Poor truncy, now Rummy, Mel Martinez, and Norm Coleman have denounced Robertson's remarks.Truncador said:
truncy all alone. Boo hoo.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/23/D8C5NJBO0.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aVRmsNY80Hd8&refer=us
How many more Republicans will condemn Robertson's remarks, while poor little truncy stands alone -- so righteous and so correct?
BTW, no Christofascists out there?
Hardly.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...,5389280.story?coll=la-news-politics-national
LA Times
August 23, 2005
Evangelical programs on Capitol Hill seek to mold a new generation of leaders who will answer not to voters, but to God.
Hardly.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...,5389280.story?coll=la-news-politics-national
LA Times
August 23, 2005
Evangelical programs on Capitol Hill seek to mold a new generation of leaders who will answer not to voters, but to God.
So, what, we should wait at the Southern boarder for a mass invasion? Oh, wait, we already have that everyday from Mexico....oldjones said:
OTB
You're right, OTB. Let's send out the Minutemen to mow down the brown people as they cross. The Minutemen aren't nazis or anything. http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/08/minutemen-home-for-extremists_08.htmlonthebottom said:
