I remember being at a Radio Shack in downtown Toronto a number of years ago and he was in front of me in line. He wanted to use a personal cheque, but the clerk was giving him a hard time. I said something like 'I'm absolutely certain that he's good for it', and P.B. laughed.
Pierre Berton passes away
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To be recognized outside of one's country is not in and of itself a measure of "greatness". To dedicate oneself to something one believes in is a choice and Berton chose to write about Canada for Canadians. You can measure sucess however you want but it is, in my opinion, narrow minded to define "greatness" by the number of times one appears on Entertainment Tonight or sells a few albums in the states or abroad.
While I don't particularly like them, I would give way more credit to a band like the "tragically hip" than I would Celine Dion or Shania even though they have had much more worldwide sucess than the Hip.
While I don't particularly like them, I would give way more credit to a band like the "tragically hip" than I would Celine Dion or Shania even though they have had much more worldwide sucess than the Hip.
I definitely agree with you regarding Berton. I think some of his books were great (e.g. Vimy, The Invasion of Canada in particular come to mind). However, I strongly disagree with you on Atwood. I always thought she was full of herself when she would comment and give interviews on issues she now absolutely nothing about.lenharper said:It is a shame that men like him (along with other Canadian literary figures like Richler, Robertson Davis, Margaret Atwood, Margaret Lawrence) were ignored in the recent greatest canadian contest in lieu of lesser figures like Don Cherry et al.
I believe them. One of my favourite local SP's once let it slip that whenever he was in Winnipeg, he used to visit the local incall where she worked.peelcowboy said:Self-important and self-indulgent it would seem, if you believe the stories of Berton & Allan Fotheringham in the 1970s being charter members of something they called the "Swordsmans Club" with the main order of business to enjoy long boozy lunches and then spend the rest of the afternoon with some convivial lady friends.
Re: Re: "Great" is a word that should be used reservedly
No doubt these people have contributed to what the Canadian television and radio industry is today, but what exactly has been their achievement? We have 3 significant television networks: CBC, CTV and Global/CanWest. What memorable original programming have they produced? What's your favourite Canadian-produced TV show - Train 48?! Canadian radio? I don't think that's even worth talking about.
We can be nice to the elderly and say nice things about them on their passing without needing to aggrandize their accomplishments.
While this is completely off topic, in my opinion Tommy Douglas was not a "Great Canadian" either. He spent his political career representing a minority of Canadians who were united only in that they felt alienated from society's mainstream. The ideas of his party were disjointed and were largely borrowed from the socialist agenda of similar political parties in Europe. He was neither insightful nor a pioneer. The institution he is largely credited for, socialized medical care, has not proved itself to be more succesful or socially beneficial than private medical care. It has proven to be so enormously expensive and wasteful that no Canadian province can afford to provide it based upon their various taxbases. To my mind, a great "visionary" not only knows what he would like ("free medical care") but understands how it can be reasonably achieved (without making everyone work for half the year just to pay for it). Tommy Douglas was more of a loud voice than a great mind.yychobbyist said:There is something to be proud of that you made a contribution to Canada within Canada. That's nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, Canadians just voted Tommy Douglas as the Greatest Canadian. Everything Tommy Douglas achieved was achieved within Canada.[/B]
In an industry which is protected by Canadian content government regulation, it is very difficult to credit the participants as "pioneers". Real pioneers overcame obstacles and hardships without support from government or outside sources.Originally posted by yychobbyist As for your comments about the retirements and deaths of media "icons" I'd say this; these people were the pioneers of Canadian radio and television and, in some cases, newspapers and their contributions have made Canadian media what it is today. Is that not in and of itself a reason to celebrate them? [/B]
No doubt these people have contributed to what the Canadian television and radio industry is today, but what exactly has been their achievement? We have 3 significant television networks: CBC, CTV and Global/CanWest. What memorable original programming have they produced? What's your favourite Canadian-produced TV show - Train 48?! Canadian radio? I don't think that's even worth talking about.
We can be nice to the elderly and say nice things about them on their passing without needing to aggrandize their accomplishments.
No-one, really. I guess I just don't agree that Berton was a "Great Canadian". I actually see him as the benefactor of ideas I don't agree with, like having a state-run broadcast company. I also don't like the idea of holding people up as icons who are nasty, irritable and politically divisive - at least if they haven't achieved something of remarkable value to mankind.n_v said:Bud Plug - who pissed in your soup?
