Private vs Public School.

[The Options Menu]

I have two cousins, both over 30, now, whose father is a doctor. They both went to private schools since day one. The parents didn't provide much guidance. I guess they thought that the private school would handle most of that. One ended up failing to get into medical school, disappointing the father (it's not easy to get into medical school, even if your dad's rich and you go to private school), and ended up going back to school to do law, after wasting some time, so a partial success. The other cousin, fucked around a lot, went to community college, and ended up selling cars. A huge failure in daddy's eyes.

My son is 13, goes to public school in a good area. I used to help him with his homework since I'm good at math and science. Now, he doesn't ask me for help much. The little fucker is going to be smart than me!

One of the things that we should keep in mind is that the Canadian public education (in general, though it is a Provincial jurisdiction) system tends to provide a more qualitatively uniform experience across a jurisdiction than south of the border.

The biggest X factor is the actual kids attending a given school. A school in a bad area will have kids that have difficult social and economic circumstances, but the school itself generally won't be severely under-resourced to boot as is often the case in the US. I is generally possible to get a decent education at pretty much any Public School.

Can private do better? Connections wise, probably. But second generation nouveau riche often go off the rails so I'd suggest your kids (or you) get to know their parents instead... If the opportunity is there, and the school has a good rep, why not? Though it's far from necessary in the general case. Public / Separate / Private all produce decent outcomes, with 2 of the 3 being 'free'.

Involved parenting will pretty much always trump any schooling in producing positive outcomes for children...

 

[basketcase]

...

Involved parenting will pretty much always trump any schooling in producing positive outcomes for children...

That's what it comes down to. I am pretty sure that any study will show the majority of 'successful' people (whatever you choose that to mean) will come from supportive families,.

Whether private or public, you still get the drug dealers, the thugs, the bullies and any other type of miscreant. The only difference is that the private school idiots dress nicer.

 

[Yoga Face]

I believe it is the governments responsibility to provide free education to the
master`s degree level for everybody who has the talent to do so.

If anyone choses to send their children to private schools in Switzerland or
somewhere in Ontario, they should pay for that themselves.

?????????????????????

You say government has responsibility to educate children

I agree but also say give them their money back in vouchers so they can choose the best possible education

Why would the government be abrogating its responsibility by giving people freedom???????

 

[Yoga Face]

More gay kids in private schools.

If I was gay, a fat and ugly girl, a very bright child or different in any way I would want to get the fuck out of the abusive public school melting pot and into a school geared for me

 

[Yoga Face]

I think someone is in the closet

Actually, yes, I was one of the kids who wanted to actually learn and apply myself instead of being cool or in a gang or be an athlete or grow my hair long or be the class clown or be popular or be tough or .....

They did a segment on W5 where bright kids were taken out of the traditional school and sent to a private school for kids who want to learn they all loved being at a school where it was cool to be smart and where students had a deep respect for a quality teacher and a love for education. They felt like they had escaped prison


Now add to that list gays , fat and ugly kids, effeminate males, macho females, fundamentalists, children of Wiccan priests in the middle of Saskatchewan, native Canadians, even athletes that want more athleticism to become a pro must feel denied, the artistic, etc, etc, etc ......... get the drift or am I being obtuse ?

 

[patton]

I am new father and already started debating with myself private or public. I think alot of people choose Private for the prestige. To say thier kids go to such and such place.
I personally beleive parenting is more important then any schooling. Yes good teachers that engage and kids are safe are very important.
However genetics and parents being involved are most important to raising kids I beleive.
what good is a great school if a kid comes home to an empty house? or parents are too busy to talk their kids and read with them and play ganes with them?
I see so many parents taking their kids to soccer , baseball etc.. and they are talking on their cell phones while driving or talking to other parents at the games and not paying attention to their own kids.

 

[Big Rig]

They did a segment on W5 where bright kids were taken out of the traditional school and sent to a private school for kids who want to learn they all loved being at a school where it was cool to be smart and where students had a deep respect for a quality teacher and a love for education. They felt like they had escaped prison


Now add to that list gays , fat and ugly kids, effeminate males, macho females, fundamentalists, children of Wiccan priests in the middle of Saskatchewan, native Canadians, even athletes that want more athleticism to become a pro must feel denied, the artistic, etc, etc, etc ......... get the drift or am I being obtuse ?

Not obtuse at all. I have always assumed public school was needed but you have made me question it

The only thing that makes me question school vouchers is that it would separate society IE the Muslims would all go to their school, the Christians theirs, the blacks theirs etc but are we not supposed to be free to do what we want?

 

[The Options Menu]

Yes, the morals and character of your child should always be formed at home you cannot trust strangers in this case the education system to do a parent's duty, unfortunately what you said is right even among the poorest of parents if you leave the parenting to the education system as it is you might as well have had no children, then there are always parents with poor morals themselves in all economic classes ...so this is one of those conundrums of life.

From a family of teachers (principals, nurses, and low grade civil servants, but not myself):

Good teachers are very happy to teach. Even semi-OK teachers are happy to teach. They're less happy when they're viewed as daycare, when they have to be parents, when they have to be social services, then they get squeezed on the other end for basic classroom supplies and told they're not doing enough extra free work in the form of extra curriculars when combines with the sheer amount of take home work any semi-decent teacher has to do. From some knowledge things have gotten tangibly better on the Public School side in recent years (Harris hang over)... With respect to actually implementing smaller class sizes, for classroom resources, and getting proper supports in for teachers expanded roles.

They also hate 'bad teachers', and so do principals. If you want to know the classrooms in any school you don't want your kid in, befriend a teacher at that school and get them a little drunk. And be aware that a private / separate school is no guarantee of a good teacher. Private schools can have marginal teachers who can talk a good game and suck up to the boss just like anyplace else.

 

[danmand]

From a family of teachers (principals, nurses, and low grade civil servants, but not myself):

Good teachers are very happy to teach. Even semi-OK teachers are happy to teach. They're less happy when they're viewed as daycare, when they have to be parents, when they have to be social services, then they get squeezed on the other end for basic classroom supplies and told they're not doing enough extra free work in the form of extra curriculars when combines with the sheer amount of take home work any semi-decent teacher has to do. From some knowledge things have gotten tangibly better on the Public School side in recent years (Harris hang over)... With respect to actually implementing smaller class sizes, for classroom resources, and getting proper supports in for teachers expanded roles.

They also hate 'bad teachers', and so do principals. If you want to know the classrooms in any school you don't want your kid in, befriend a teacher at that school and get them a little drunk. And be aware that a private / separate school is no guarantee of a good teacher. Private schools can have marginal teachers who can talk a good game and suck up to the boss just like anyplace else.

My children went to well regarded private school. There were excellent teachers there, but also
substandard teachers, as I imagine there will be in any school.

remember that private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers.

 

[basketcase]

...
Now add to that list gays , fat and ugly kids, effeminate males, macho females, fundamentalists, children of Wiccan priests in the middle of Saskatchewan, native Canadians, even athletes that want more athleticism to become a pro must feel denied, the artistic, etc, etc, etc ......... get the drift or am I being obtuse ?

Sorry to burst your bubble but many of the 'best' private schools are bastions of elitism, snobbery, and bullying, especially with girls. That fat, ugly girl would be destroyed because the private school image is 'the beautiful people' and that is what she would feel she had to be. Unless that school specifically caters to your kids needs, it's a waste of money and I'm sure there are public schools that provide the same program (whether gay, black focus, athletes).

As I said before, private or public doesn't matter - upbringing does (which is what makes kids motivated etc.).

 

[basketcase]

...
remember that private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers.

Not from what I understand (unless the private schools are hiring non-certified teachers - which they can)

 

[themexi]

I find that the abdication of the public school system in Toronto by white people looking for exclusivity or snob appeal is one the the sad facts of life here. Private schools are our tie to the worst of merry olde England. Same-sex schooling only compounds the problem.

Maybe these "snobby whites" are simply doing the sensible thing & getting their kids out of the "hood" & the mentality that comes with it often found in public schools. Instead of dumping on them why not figure out a way to make the public system more amenable to decent people & better at reigning in the bad seeds they're burdened with.

 

[themexi]

Sorry to burst your bubble but many of the 'best' private schools are bastions of elitism, snobbery, and bullying, especially with girls. That fat, ugly girl would be destroyed because the private school image is 'the beautiful people' and that is what she would feel she had to be. Unless that school specifically caters to your kids needs, it's a waste of money and I'm sure there are public schools that provide the same program (whether gay, black focus, athletes).

As I said before, private or public doesn't matter - upbringing does (which is what makes kids motivated etc.).

yeah... almost impossible to escape the whole "survival of the fittest" thing... especially with high school kids....

Best thing to do if you have an ostracized kid is to teach them the fundamental rules of surviving socially:

- Think/feel however you want, but act like everyone else.
- Take care of yourself & be the best you can be... Put down the candy & run somewhere. Wash & groom properly... Pull up your fucking pants.
- Don't be such a pussy, stand up for yourself

- Only the powerful get to be publicly ugly, eccentric, or outspoken without risking a smackdown. Know your place & how to change it. That is life.

However since both private & public are darwinist in the extreme, a properly researched Privaate school will outperform Public any day of the week because for the most part.... there will be fewer kids there that are the product of failures... At least Someone in the family values the kids education enough to actually DO something.... which is more than can be said for the vast majority of the single mommy kids in the hood.

 

[Stokley]

Maybe these "snobby whites" are simply doing the sensible thing & getting their kids out of the "hood" & the mentality that comes with it often found in public schools. Instead of dumping on them why not figure out a way to make the public system more amenable to decent people & better at reigning in the bad seeds they're burdened with.

Amen. Every rational thinking parent wants their child to be safe and receive a high quality education.

The public school system is a sewer. It is where the public drops it untreated refuse. The human garbage that no one wants to treat.

The years it will take to change the public schools are not within the time frame a parent has. You need a quality school now, not in twenty years.

If you have the money you send your child to a private school.

 

[Harley]

I went to private school. It was the worst mistake my parents ever made. The school was one of the big 5. Classes were small, max 10 per class. I didn't do very well, and none of the teachers gave me any help.
I was a border, and at night in the dorm had to fight off the queers. I wanted none of that.
I quit grade 10 when I was sixteen, and went straight to work. After 7 years, I returned to school, did very well, and have had a good life.
Would I send my kids? .... NO !!!

 

[Yoga Face]

Sorry to burst your bubble but many of the 'best' private schools are bastions of elitism, snobbery, and bullying, especially with girls. That fat, ugly girl would be destroyed because the private school image is 'the beautiful people' and that is what she would feel she had to be. Unless that school specifically caters to your kids needs, it's a waste of money and I'm sure there are public schools that provide the same program (whether gay, black focus, athletes).

As I said before, private or public doesn't matter - upbringing does (which is what makes kids motivated etc.).

I disagree

Not all private schools are perfect, esp the ones that throw children into a melting pot like public schools do

If you do not like the school then do not go to it, at least you have the option with school vouchers

But there are alternative schools that do cater to individual needs such as the bright the gays the athletes etc and do a far superior job than public schools and do it cheaper

If someone wants to home school they should get their taxes back to pay for private tutors

In Montana there is a school on a farm where the students work for half the day and education is free

If we allowed school vouchers then there would be many alternative educational concepts and education would be revolutionized

 

[basketcase]

First off, IMHO, the 'melting pot' is one of the strengths of public schooling. Unless you expect your child to live life among the RCYC Granite Club type rich WASPS, they better learn that not everyone is like them. School is about preparing kids for society, not for the country club.

Second, school vouchers will never happen and I'm glad.

Third, the public school system already has all sorts of alternative schools (there was something in the news about a black focus school wasn't there?) that cater to gays, athletes and bright kids including all of the advanced and international programs found in Private Education. At least in Toronto, you can apply to any of them. From what I've heard, there is a huge selection including Arts schools that have larger waiting lists than UCC and the like. If you don't believe me, I'm sure that a quick google search can give you details on what is out there. And they're free.

Do what you want for your kid but don't expect to get any discount for it.

 

[Yoga Face]

QUOTE=basketcase;2804431]First off, IMHO, the 'melting pot' is one of the strengths of public schooling. Unless you expect your child to live life among the RCYC Granite Club type rich WASPS, they better learn that not everyone is like them. School is about preparing kids for society, not for the country club..[/QUOTE]

I am just talking about simple freedoms here and what is wrong with everyone going to the Granite Club school ?

Being abused is not preparing anybody for anything

School is about learning in a positive learning environment

Case closed

Second, school vouchers will never happen and I'm glad.
..

Not unless the public demands it. There are too many self interest groups that depend on the staus quo so it will take civil disobedience to get our educational freedom

Third, the public school system already has all sorts of alternative schools (there was something in the news about a black focus school wasn't there?) that cater to gays, athletes and bright kids including all of the advanced and international programs found in Private Education. At least in Toronto, you can apply to any of them. From what I've heard, there is a huge selection including Arts schools that have larger waiting lists than UCC and the like. If you don't believe me, I'm sure that a quick google search can give you details on what is out there. And they're free.

Do what you want for your kid but don't expect to get any discount for it.

NOthing is free we pay in our taxes and getting your own monies back is not a discount

It took the public schools 150 years to even acknowledge there were gays - how incompetent can you fucking get !

No, the public schools do not have enough alternative schools IE Waldorf, Montessori etc and will always be behind the curve of private education

I say home school and progress at twice the rate of public schools with help from tutors then put your saved vouchers in interest bearing account so University (private of course) will be paid for

 

[Questor]

It was not a discipline thing. It's more like he was recruited. I guess he was invited to go to the school and apply for admission into the school, if that makes any sense. I guess he was pre-screened and if we were interested, then we were to go to the school and formally apply. The question I had though, is whether the obvious sacrifices I will have to make, will all be worth it? Does a private education make a real difference? Is the education, discipline, work ethic, etc any better than the regular public school system?

Every situation is different. Some can derive many benefits from a private school. My own opinion is that public school is the way to go until that way is not working for your child. Then you look for options that will lead to more success. You haven't mentioned anything about your son having difficulties in public school, so I would leave him where he is.

 

[Hiding]

I went to a private school. I went to an arts school. I was in the gifted program. I went to public school. I found a program at a public school that was slightly private, and that's what worked for me.

In my experience... public schools have some amazing (A+) teachers and a lot of crappy (Ds and Fs) teachers. The A+ ones changed my life, the lower grade ones made me laugh: they couldn't keep up with the smarter kids in the class and it moved VERY slow for the less intelligent ones.

Private schools hire uncertified teachers (mine did, and it was an amazing one) who have a passion for their areas. My gym teacher was an Olympic rowing champion, my math teacher had an equation named after him, but neither was officially certified. They were amazing but I hated the attitude of a lot of the kids. For the record, my parents are in that bracket as well, I just didn't like how they saw life/money/school. Some of them are still close friends and will be very influential in the next 20 years.

Arts school was interesting, full of characters, who had auditioned/provided a portfolio and had been accepted. The kids were full of passion for their subject areas (Music/Visual Arts/Dance/Musical Theatre) and we had awesome teachers for those areas. It was a high school and most people went on to study in their chosen area, some are professional performers.

I ended up, after leaving the other schools for various reasons, in a private program at a public school. It was an extension of the gifted program and phenomenal: the kids were quick like me, uninterested in typical learning like me, and had the same sense of humour. My closest friends went through this program with me and I'm still really close with them, 5 years later.

Its all about what works for your child: at 7 we're not that ignorant. Does he/she want to go? If so, and you can afford it, why not? If he/she wants to try something else, and you can afford it, why not? Humans have a remarkable way of clicking into wherever they're intended to be.