Problems crossing into Canada

[tonyb]

They would have confiscated it temporarily (about 6 weeks), and subjected it to a REALLY thorough search. I need my laptop for work, so kicking up a fuss wasn't much of an option.

Don't import anything that you wouldn't want them to know about.

On the other hand, we do want them to catch the bd guys, don't we?

 

[OnTheWayOut]

alnost forgot

only time I was ever searched was going into the US once ...... guys sez to pull over, we were # 100 and they search every 100th vehicle regardless ... the SO had her laptop in the car, they never even looked on it (as far as I know, we weren't allowed to watch the guy go thru the car). Whole thing only took @ 10 -15 min ... guess we were lucky

 

[bjsk90]

My cousin went on a solo trip to South America (Ecuador & Peru). When he came back to the Ottawa airport they put him through the ringer. Detained him for over two hours. They searched through every inch of his suitcases. They even drilled through a wood carving he was bringing back as a souvenir (they couldn't have x-rayed it instead?). In the end all they found were a pack of south american cigarettes (which they charged duty for), and they confiscated a pair of his pants because they had a bit of mud on them (apparently that's a danger to contaminating Canadian soil). I know exactly why they were doing all of this, he was a young single guy, and they were thinking he was smuggling drugs, pretty easy to figure out. Another reason too was because he was unfortunate enough to go through Ottawa airport. It's a small international airport, but they don't get a lot of international traffic, so whenever something does come in, they really go nuts here. If he had gone through Toronto or Montreal, he would've barely been noticed.

I think Alexandria Bridge is probably the road equivalent of Ottawa International airport. They aren't too busy, so they go nuts when something does come through.

 

[bjsk90]

Geesh.

Prostitution is 100% legal in Canada. Always has been.

Public solicitation (in a public place like a street), bawdy houses and living off the avails are not legal).

Solicitation on the Internet, phone, newspaper ads and in private is 100% legal

Prostitution is legal it is not "Tolerated" because its legal so it doesn't have to be "tolerated"!

Really? So is that why SP's have to advertise that they're charging you time only for their company with you, but not for any other activities? Or why MP's have to say they're only giving you a massage, and the remainder is the tip you give them for their great service?

One way to tell if it were really legal in Canada is if the government were taxing the business. That's not the case yet, therefore the government is just tolerating the practice, not legalizing it.

But since even immigration officers don't know their own country's laws you should avoid the discussion if possible but if they find it on your computer educate them that it is 100% legal as I did in Victoria.

Bawdy houses are usually tolerated unless complaints or other crimes going on and Agencies sell time not sex so usually no avails issue.

What exactly did they find on your computer? A link to Terb? It's just another adult website. What more do you need to admit?

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Anyone that knows Canadian law can confirm prostitution is legal. I quote direct from the Canadian Criminal Code on my site the restrictions and lot of court and historical data.

The Sp's that advertise for time only is totally silly if outcall since no need. Massage parlors are border line because a handjob techically violates bawdy but very hard to prove bawdy since has to be regularly used not just once etc. And in most cities cops are far more interested in crimes that have victims not like in the U.S. going after morality crimes.

Prostituton is taxed just like any busienss. You should report your income as entertainmer or whatever. Just like in the U.S. providers should report their income just like any other. Tax invasion is a serious felony in the U.S. at least, vs misdomeaner prostitution. And sometime easier to prove. Just ask Al Copne (if he was alive).

On my computer they found my spreadsheeet of massage places and escrots as well as links to terb and other places, but terb is what they asked most about.

And after teaching them the Canadian Criminal Code they realized I knew what I was talking about and became quite friendly. Turned into interested in it vs thinking I was a criminal after awhile.

 

[justvisiting1]

Anyone that knows Canadian law can confirm prostitution is legal. I quote direct from the Canadian Criminal Code on my site the restrictions and lot of court and historical data.

The Sp's that advertise for time only is totally silly if outcall since no need. Massage parlors are border line because a handjob techically violates bawdy but very hard to prove bawdy since has to be regularly used not just once etc. And in most cities cops are far more interested in crimes that have victims not like in the U.S. going after morality crimes.

Prostituton is taxed just like any busienss. You should report your income as entertainmer or whatever. Just like in the U.S. providers should report their income just like any other. Tax invasion is a serious felony in the U.S. at least, vs misdomeaner prostitution. And sometime easier to prove. Just ask Al Copne (if he was alive).

On my computer they found my spreadsheeet of massage places and escrots as well as links to terb and other places, but terb is what they asked most about.

And after teaching them the Canadian Criminal Code they realized I knew what I was talking about and became quite friendly. Turned into interested in it vs thinking I was a criminal after awhile.

I always get great info from you, thanks!

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Back to the border crossing issue.

Does anyone know if there is any appeals process of you are denied entry - especially if you think the reason is the broder agents don't know the laws of Canada! It would seem that their should be some appeal for this situation not just for this guy but anyone else facing similar issue.

There has been some private discussion of this going on and so far the only suggestion is from an attorney willing to go and meet the border guards and try and explain the laws related to prostitution. But he wants to charge over $1000 just to do this. It seem some appeals process would be a better solution unless their simply isn't any.

As it stand now he may never be able to enter Canada again due to the nastly notes in the system but apparently a border officer that thinks he is undesirable since he visits prostitutes in Canada - and like my guys thinking its illegal relating it to street hookers.

I have researched and monitored the Canadian Criminal Code related to prostitution for almost a decade but know nothing about the immigration situation other than you can be denied entry if "undesirable" which doesn't seem to have any specific definition.

 

[MrLimpet]

Halleluiah

Our Customs people actual check some crossing the border! Came back through Cornwall couple of weeks ago after an afternoon of gambling and the customs/border security asked a few questions and let us proceed. Didn't even ask to see an id. I was flabergasted.

 

[bjsk90]

On my computer they found my spreadsheeet of massage places and escrots as well as links to terb and other places, but terb is what they asked most about.

They found your spreadsheet? How many spreadsheets were in your computer? Did they go through all of your spreadsheets?

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

I had a folder "Canada" In that folder were sub folders for Victoria, Hamilton and Niagara. Within Victoria was my escort spread sheet. In the other two there were spreadsheets for massage parlors and escorts.

I do a lot of pretrip research with review highlights and I rank active providers so I know who I want to try and see when I arrive.

Yes they found them and the link to terb and nerbs and my Niagara falls and my Victoria website. They asked why they couldn't see the web sites. Ah...you need an Internet connection.

I was very open with them and explained to them Canadian law and how I follow it and enjoy the sexual freedoms enjoyed by Canada that we are denied in the U.S.

The older agent went back and was looking in books, I assume checking the Canadian Criminal Code and found I was exactly right in everything I told them.

They got more and more friendly and more curious and especially the younger agent interested when talked about how many college gals from the local schools are active on the boards and enjoy being escorts while going thru school.

This amazed them thinking of just the drugged out street hooker not intelligent attractive college students.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Denied access to Canada for sex interest info

There have been recent reports of folks being denied access to Canada by inspections that include looking on laptops and finding information on the sex work industry and being denied entry.

Not all have been as lucky as I was when they found all my sexwork related info on my laptop in Victoria a few years ago. I had to teach them the law that prostitution was legal and they became more and more friendly and interested when the border agents were educated about Canadian law and one young agent became quite interested. That story is at http://sexworkvictoria.com/Interrogated.html

But I have been contacted recently on similar situations where at least one person was denied entry thinking he was undesirable since he visits "prostitutes" and they can only relate to the drugged out street hooker and obviously are ignorant of Canadian law (the border agents are ignorant just like they were with me in Victoria).

Here is information that may be of help if anyone else runs into this problem and is denied entry to Canada as an "undesirable":

Canadian Border Service Appeals

See
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/general/disagree/menu-e.html and related links.

Disagreements, reviews and appeals
In this section

* How it works?
* Who does a formal review?
* Customs/Border
* Importations
* Related Web pages and sites

How it works

Fair treatment and a commitment to your rights are fundamental pillars that guide our relationship.

Although most of our dealings are straightforward, sometimes a person or organization disagrees with us about an assessment or decision we've made.

When that happens, we want to resolve the disagreement as quickly and easily as possible.

Some disagreements are caused by a lack of information or by a simple miscommunication. That's why we say: "Talk to us" List of offices at
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/listing/indexpages/index-e.html

For instance:

* If you have a disagreement at an airport or border crossing, talk to the customs officer or supervisor while you're there. After the fact, you can contact one of our offices.

After talking to us, you may not be satisfied with our answer. One of your rights is the right to a formal review- see http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/general/disagree/your_right-e.html

* Our review process differs according to what's in disagreement or dispute.

Disagreements, reviews and appeals
Your right to a formal review
In this section
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/general/disagree/your_right-e.html

* How it works?
* Who does a formal review?
* Customs/Border
* Importations
* Related Web pages and sites

You have the right to every benefit the law allows. If you believe you have not received your full entitlements under the law, and you have been unable to reach an agreement with us on a duty or penalty matter, you have the right to a formal review of your file. In these situations, appeals representatives who were not involved in the original decision are available to conduct a formal and impartial review.
How do we ensure our redress processes are impartial?

The CBSA's Admissibility Branch deals with disputes that develop about customs matters. The Admissibility Branch operates independently in relation to other CBSA branches.

Admissibility Branch staff have a mandate to resolve disputes between clients and the CBSA by impartially reviewing previous CBSA decisions. Appeals staff are trained to review the client's and the CBSA's facts and reasons.

The role of the appeals representative who reviews your case is to carry out a complete, professional, and impartial review. This representative reviews your case by:

* interpreting acts administered by the CBSA and reviewing CBSA policies;
* considering your point of view; and
* when necessary, asking for a technical opinion from CBSA experts or seeking legal advice from the Department of Justice.

The representative who reviews your case will not have been involved in the original assessment, determination, or ruling of a duty, penalty or other matter. You can discuss your case with an appeals representative, and you have the right to obtain certain documents related to your case.

The CBSA does not charge you for a review. The non-adversarial nature of the process allows many of our clients to represent themselves.

If you are not satisfied with the Admissibility Branch's review, you can appeal to the appropriate court or, for certain matters, to the Canadian International Trade Tribunal.
Your rights to redress

Also Border Information Service 1 800 461-9999
Should you require more in-depth information related to a topic, you can speak directly to an agent during regular business hours, Monday to Friday (08:00 - 16:00 local time / except holidays). Press "0" to speak to an agent.

 

[MrLimpet]

Thanks for the information numb nut. Try getting laid in the U s of A!

I'm not normally impolite but this BS is too much!

 

[ohpinion8ted]

Thanks for the information numb nut. Try getting laid in the U s of A!

I'm not normally impolite but this BS is too much!

Whoa! Dave answered a question raised by Mr Parker.

This is what the board is all about.

If you don't like the thread then I suggest you move on to the next one. Being rude, or calling people names, doesn't accomplish anything except prevent other posters from posting out of fear they'll be flamed.

O.

 

[MrLimpet]

Whoa! Dave answered a question raised by Mr Parker.

This is what the board is all about.

If you don't like the thread then I suggest you move on to the next one. Being rude, or calling people names, doesn't accomplish anything except prevent other posters from posting out of fear they'll be flamed.

O.

Noted Oh

But come on. The guy was .... enough to say why he was coming across the border so he deserves whatever he got. I'm sorry but this is one darn place I "don't have" to be politically correct.

 

[bjsk90]

I had a folder "Canada" In that folder were sub folders for Victoria, Hamilton and Niagara. Within Victoria was my escort spread sheet. In the other two there were spreadsheets for massage parlors and escorts.

I do a lot of pretrip research with review highlights and I rank active providers so I know who I want to try and see when I arrive.

Yes they found them and the link to terb and nerbs and my Niagara falls and my Victoria website. They asked why they couldn't see the web sites. Ah...you need an Internet connection.

I was very open with them and explained to them Canadian law and how I follow it and enjoy the sexual freedoms enjoyed by Canada that we are denied in the U.S.

The older agent went back and was looking in books, I assume checking the Canadian Criminal Code and found I was exactly right in everything I told them.

They got more and more friendly and more curious and especially the younger agent interested when talked about how many college gals from the local schools are active on the boards and enjoy being escorts while going thru school.

This amazed them thinking of just the drugged out street hooker not intelligent attractive college students.

Well, I would've named the spreadsheet something innocuous like "phonebook", and would've named the entries with codewords rather than their real name.

But you may have lucked out by getting a couple of guys as your customs officers. I doubt this would've come to pass if you had a female officer interrogating you.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Why should we have to hide what is 100% legal?

Neither of us said upfront - I usually say visiting friends and other than the Victoira situation never had a problem and after that was cleared for CanPass.

Why should I have to hide what folders are - again prostitution is 100% legal in Canada so why should I have to be dishonest or hide my interest. This is NOT the U.S, you have sexual freedoms we do not have in the U.S. and there is nothing illegal going on so why should it be an issue at the border?

 

[Larry_Fyne]

Back to the border crossing issue.

Does anyone know if there is any appeals process of you are denied entry - especially if you think the reason is the broder agents don't know the laws of Canada! It would seem that their should be some appeal for this situation not just for this guy but anyone else facing similar issue.
.

Border guards are not police officers. They do not have to know what the laws of Canada are. They decided, for whatever reason, that you were inadmisable. If they suspected that you were going to do illegal activities, that's enough. Telling them about how you perceive the laws would add fuel to their fire.

 

[thompo69]

Why should we have to hide what is 100% legal?

Neither of us said upfront - I usually say visiting friends and other than the Victoira situation never had a problem and after that was cleared for CanPass.

Why should I have to hide what folders are - again prostitution is 100% legal in Canada so why should I have to be dishonest or hide my interest. This is NOT the U.S, you have sexual freedoms we do not have in the U.S. and there is nothing illegal going on so why should it be an issue at the border?

Dave,

I think I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. First, prostitution is not "100%" legal in Canada -- it is legal in certain circumstances.

Second, you posted a great deal about the CBSA appeal process, however, I believe that only relates to customs issues (ie. you can appeal the duties you are charged etc.). I do not believe there is any formal appeal process if you are deemed inadmissible.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Telling them about how you perceive the laws would add fuel to their fire.

It is not how I "perceive' the law it IS the law as the Victoria agents agreed when I educated them.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Dave,
I think I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. First, prostitution is not "100%" legal in Canada -- it is legal in certain circumstances.Second, you posted a great deal about the CBSA appeal process, however, I believe that only relates to customs issues (ie. you can appeal the duties you are charged etc.). I do not believe there is any formal appeal process if you are deemed inadmissible.

1) Prostitution is 100% legal in Canada - show me otherwise - you can't. Please read the Criminal Code before you make such statements. I can sent it to you if you can't find it.

Bawdy houses are illegal but mostly tolerated.

Public solicitation in a public PLACE like a street or hotel lobby or bar is illegal. Ads on the web, phone calls, newspaper ads etc are 100% legal.

Living off the avails is illegal but rarely used against agencies since they sell time not sex.

Prostitution again is 100% legal in Canada and always has been. There are minor usually not enforced limits to how it is done.

2) CBSA appeal process - I was also a bit concerned about its being limited to bringing in goods but the way some such are worded and use of term "admissiblity" it seems to apply to both goods and the person being admited into Canada. It would be nice to have a lawyer who knows however.