Question: Should It Be Considered Rape If A Trans Person Doesn't Tell You...

twizz

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That They Are Not A Cisgender Person Before They Perform A Sexual Act On You?

US Marine Convicted of Brutally Murdering Transgender Woman in the Philippines

By**Reuters and VICE News

December 1, 2015 | 6:15 pm

A US Marine was found guilty of killing a transgender woman in the Philippines on Tuesday and sentenced to six to 12 years in prison, closing a case that has reignited debate about**the American military's presence in its former colony.

The Olongapo City regional trial court also ordered Lance Corporal Joseph Scott Pemberton to pay more than 4.5 million pesos ($95,350) to the family of Jennifer Laude, who was found dead last year in a hotel outside a former US navy base northwest of Manila. Pemberton had been charged with murder, but was convicted of the lesser offense of homicide, which does not require malicious intent.

He can appeal against the verdict and sentence. "This is not quite a victory," Laude's sister, Malou, told Reuters. "We expected a murder conviction but instead got homicide. We are not contented with the decision."

Pemberton was in the Philippines in 2014 for joint military exercises. According to testimony at the trial, he met Laude at a nightclub and went back with her to his hotel. At trial, the prosecutors presented video footage that shows the two entering a room together and Pemberton exiting alone a few later.

Laude was found in the hotel room hours later with a broken neck. Pemberton admitted in court to choking — but not killing — Laude. He claimed he acted in self-defense after discovering that the person who was giving him oral sex was transgender.

Pemberton's case has infuriated many in the Philippines, who see it as another example of American servicemen operating with impunity. Protesters outside the Hall of Justice carried placards saying "Justice for Jennifer Laude! Justice for the Filipino people!" and "Jail Pemberton in the Philippines."

During the course of the trial, Pemberton was held in US custody, guarded by American troops in a Philippine military base.

Pemberton was due to be held in the national penitentiary in Muntinlupa, south of the capital, until the Philippines and US government agree on where he should serve his sentence as prescribed under a visiting forces agreement.

But Harry Roque, a private attorney working for the Laude family, said there was a dispute with US officials about where Pemberton should go that was resolved when the judge ordered he be held at a Philippine army base for five days while a permanent solution was found.

"This is a sad day for the Philippines," Roque said. "It shows the US gets what it wants."

The case has stirred debate over the presence of American soldiers on Philippine soil after the country's senators voted two decades ago to kick out US bases. At the time, many argued that US soldiers were breaking Philippine laws and operating with impunity. The US acquired the Philippines from Spain after the Spanish–American War of 1898. The Philippines fought a failed war for independence against the US in the following years, and wasn't granted full autonomy until 1946.

The US has increased military aid to the Philippines this year amid rising tensions in the region over China's new assertiveness in the South China Sea.

In April 2014, just six months before Laude's murder, the US and Philippines signed a deal to strengthen their military cooperation. That deal could eventually involve stationing American military ships, planes, and troops inside the Philippines. President Benigno S. Aquino III signed the agreement without the consent of Congress, and its validity is currently being considered by the country's the Supreme Court.

Follow VICE News on Twitter:**@vicenews

https://news.vice.com/article/us-marine-convicted-of-brutally-murdering-transgender-woman-in-the-philippines?utm_source=vicenewsfb0
 

Butler1000

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No, actually it shouldn't. And killing a person over this should have been murder.

While I understand why someone would be pissed and probably also have an initial impulse to violence killing can't be condoned. I few good looking punches I can see being forgiven but not this.

No it isn't rape. It's buyer beware.
 

Aardvark154

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Interesting question, much depends on whether deception is listed in the statute, also whether courts have ruled that there is no consent to sexual relations when that consent was obtained by deception. Of course neither would be a complete defense to homicide. Although as with Joseph S. Pemberton it may serve to reduce murder to manslaughter.

A Volokh Conspiracy Legal Blog discussion about a Colorado Murder Trial with a similar fact pattern: http://www.volokh.com/posts/1239643197.shtml

Also see the following 2014 article from the Criminal Law Review: "Sexual Intimacy Transgender Defendants and the Legal Construction of Non-Consent"
http://www.academia.edu/6265870/Cri..._Non-Consent_2014_Criminal_Law_Review_207-223
 

TeeJay

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also whether courts have ruled that there is no consent to sexual relations when that consent was obtained by deception.
Oh puh-leeze
If consent by deception was a crime do you know how many times I have told a woman I was single or 30 or a doctor or


The US marine is a closet homo who freaked out when he got turned on by a tranny
It's manslaughter not murder though (since I doubt he planned to kill it before he knew it was a trans)
 

Aardvark154

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Oh puh-leeze
If consent by deception was a crime do you know how many times I have told a woman I was single or 30 or a doctor or
Welcome to the brave new world where indeed it may be criminal and certainly is grounds for a civil suit.
 

John Henry

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Saw an article not too long ago where a female tricked her girlfriend into thinking that she was a male for a couple of years . Not too sure where this took place but I think it was in England . The trickster got a hefty jail sentence .
 

fuji

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"Maybe" is not the same as fact
Arrests and trials are public record so by all means link one
If a woman were to tell you she only has sex with prospective future husbands and you LIED to her to give her the false belief that you were one, when an existing marriage or other condition prevented you from being a prospective husband, then I think there would be strong grounds to argue you did NOT have her consent.
 

bishop

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Manslaughter is the correct conviction.

If it happened to me, I would just demand my money back, and walk away. It probably won't be the what I consider the worst thing that happened to me that day or week.
 

IM469

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If it happened to me, I would just demand my money back, and walk away. It probably won't be the what I consider the worst thing that happened to me that day or week.

Your life is definitely more diverse than mine. If I had a hot date that I brought back to my place only to be greeted by a hard - on .... that might be the worst experience of the day, week .. possibly even the month.

I don't consider myself homophobic, I don't feel threatened or give a rat's ass about a gay/transexual lifestyle but to deceive me and insert yourself into my sex life through false advertising is a calculated self-serving move that is going to get a hostile reaction. I won't kill anyone but I'm not going to giggle about the situation over a glass of wine.

Manslaughter -yes- but the sentence would be similar to someone killing a child molester that you found with your young daughter. It is emotionally charged circumstances that you did not put yourself in to.
 

canada-man

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Question: Should It Be Considered Rape If A Trans Person Doesn't Tell You?

yes. In Israel a Muslim man pretend to be Jewish to date and sleep with a woman who wanted to be with a Jewish man. he was convicted and Punished.
 

bishop

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Your life is definitely more diverse than mine. If I had a hot date that I brought back to my place only to be greeted by a hard - on .... that might be the worst experience of the day, week .. possibly even the month.

I don't consider myself homophobic, I don't feel threatened or give a rat's ass about a gay/transexual lifestyle but to deceive me and insert yourself into my sex life through false advertising is a calculated self-serving move that is going to get a hostile reaction. I won't kill anyone but I'm not going to giggle about the situation over a glass of wine.

Manslaughter -yes- but the sentence would be similar to someone killing a child molester that you found with your young daughter. It is emotionally charged circumstances that you did not put yourself in to.
So long as I do not get an STD, I would just walk it off.

It is not that my life is diverse, it is that I have been through alot of worse sh*t than finding out a man s*cked my c0ck.

For the record I am not gay nor have I ever had a gay experience, but if I found that that a girl I used to date and was intimate with turned out to be a man, I would not even bother to send a text message or email to him/her.
 

bishop

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If it is ok for a man to lie to get p*ssy, it is only fair that the same standard be applied for a man lying to get c0ck.
 

TeeJay

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If a woman were to tell you she only has sex with prospective future husbands and you LIED to her to give her the false belief that you were one, when an existing marriage or other condition prevented you from being a prospective husband, then I think there would be strong grounds to argue you did NOT have her consent.
You guys are so funny. So many ridiculous ideas.
I even challenged previous poster to find a case yet instead I get more valuable opinions heh.

In your example what law do you think has been broken? You do realize under Canadian law positive consent is not required either (eg a legal defence is "I thought she wanted it" so long as she is sober & of age)
 

TeeJay

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Your life is definitely more diverse than mine. If I had a hot date that I brought back to my place only to be greeted by a hard - on .... that might be the worst experience of the day, week .. possibly even the month.

I don't consider myself homophobic, I don't feel threatened or give a rat's ass about a gay/transexual lifestyle but to deceive me and insert yourself into my sex life through false advertising is a calculated self-serving move that is going to get a hostile reaction. I won't kill anyone but I'm not going to giggle about the situation over a glass of wine.
It is emotionally charged circumstances that you did not put yourself in to.
But again, you met, and got sexually attracted to an alternative male. That makes you gay.
All the arguments about false advertising or not noticing his package was bigger than yours just makes your cries more humorous to straight males
 

Aardvark154

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You guys are so funny. So many ridiculous ideas.
I even challenged previous poster to find a case yet instead I get more valuable opinions heh.

In your example what law do you think has been broken? You do realize under Canadian law positive consent is not required either (eg a legal defence is "I thought she wanted it" so long as she is sober & of age)
The entire world is not Canada. The case cited is not Canadian. Further, that was not Twizz's question.

I see no reason to waste my time finding you cases when you have already blown off my advice. Further Canada Man already cited a case for you.
 

IM469

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But again, you met, and got sexually attracted to an alternative male. That makes you gay.
All the arguments about false advertising or not noticing his package was bigger than yours just makes your cries more humorous to straight males
What the f*ck are you talking about ? Did you read my thread or did you get so hot about the concept of gay sex you skipped over the details ? Where did you get the idea of comparing 'packages'? What do you know about straight males ???

I haven't had the situation occur to me and I'm guessing it is far from a common occurrence but it doesn't stop me from giving an honest opinion on my reaction if it did.

There seems to be a hostility among many repressed gay men towards the concept of straight men - not sure if it is repressed guilt or life style envy.
 

explorerzip

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Am I missing something here: "He claimed he acted in self-defense after discovering that the person who was giving him oral sex was transgender." Defending himself from a blowjob?? Philippines and Thailand are well known for their lady boys, so why would this be a surprise for the Marine?
 

IM469

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Am I missing something here: "He claimed he acted in self-defense after discovering that the person who was giving him oral sex was transgender." Defending himself from a blowjob?? Philippines and Thailand are well known for their lady boys, so why would this be a surprise for the Marine?
His pride was under attack.
 
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