Roy Halladay

[maurice93]

Over the last few years, they have learned that judging pitchers merely by wins is not accurate ( one used to be able to get a cy young award merely by amassing wins ) I think they have learned they're are other things to consider.

Such as comparing his performance to other pitchers of his time , I'm sure all of his stats compare favourably to other pitchers, and of course his complete games, in that Category he stands out by a wide margin.

It depends on what you define as "his time" - the current group or make it a bit longer to consider the recently retired group (or about to retire) of Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Martinez and Rivera.

What we don't know is if Roy will be one of those guys that pitches well from the 35-41. He seems like he could be - but he would need that to even be compared to thar group.

 

[maurice93]

Really?
I remember two distinct arguments there..........
People in Montreal were pissed when Gary Carter chose the Mets over the Expos and Robbie Alomar chose to go in as the first Blue Jay. I remember hearing that on TSN.

Gary Carter was inducted as a Montreal Expo, not as a Met, and that choice was made by the Hall. As was Andre Dawson. Both would have liked to be considerd as either a Met or a Cub, but the HOF made the decision. Carter was more in between playing both groups of fans, and then the HOF made the choice, which was absolutely correct. Carter and Dawson were considered amongst the handful of baseball elite for a period of five years or so in Montreal.

 

[maurice93]

That is true but I do believe the player is allowed some input that the committee may take into consideration.

If one team is not clear, then I believe the player's choice would be considered. If Alomar had said he wanted to be an Indian (as he did have three great years there) they may hasve considered it since he was only with the Jays for five year. But he made it easy for them by wanting to be a Jay.

But Wade Boggs wanted to be a Devil Ray - obviously the HOF wanted nothing to do with that.

As for Roy, if he has 5 CY caliber years in Philly, including a world title or two, I can see the HOF supporting a choice of Philly. As of right now he is a Jay -- but as of right now he is not a HOF'er either.

I don't think Roger Clemens will be able to avoid the Red Sox (assuming he get in) even if he wants. I am sure he will ask to go in as a Yankee,

 

[Mervyn]

The Hall has always had the right to select what team logo (if any) a player would be inducted with, but would usually take the players choice, but several years back rumours came out that certain teams were paying players to select their team over another, so the HoF tightened things up again and make the decision themself.

 

[shack]

Really?
I remember two distinct arguments there..........
People in Montreal were pissed when Gary Carter chose the Mets over the Expos and Robbie Alomar chose to go in as the first Blue Jay. I remember hearing that on TSN.

Yes really.

What a surprise. You are wrong in your questioning and what you heard.

HOF decides. End of story. Player can tell them his preference, but HOF decides.

 

[Dawgger]

are there any examples of the HOF selecting a team that wasn't the player's preference?

 

[gcostanza]

are there any examples of the HOF selecting a team that wasn't the player's preference?

Yes.

 

[Mervyn]

are there any examples of the HOF selecting a team that wasn't the player's preference?

*Gary Carter: Inducted in 2003, Carter was the first player to be affected by the new policy. Carter won his only championship with the 1986 New York Mets, and wanted his induction plaque to depict him wearing a Mets cap, even though he had spent twelve years (1974–84, 1992) with the Montreal Expos and only five (1985–89) with the Mets. The Hall of Fame decided that his plaque would instead show Carter with an Expos cap.

** Wade Boggs: Boggs's only championship was as a member of the 1996 New York Yankees, for whom he played from 1993–97, but his best career numbers were posted during his eleven years (1982–92) wearing the Boston Red Sox uniform. Boggs would eventually be depicted wearing a Boston cap for his 2005 induction, despite his acrimonious relationship with Red Sox management.

 

[thewalker]

I love Roy, but FIRST BALLOT?! Not even close. He needs many more years of pitching like he can to overcome the games lost to injuries.

I would generally agree with you, but baseball types are very old-fashioned traditionalists and when they see a guy like Halladay, never complains, incredible work ethic, no drama, old-school in every way they tend to look very favourably on that as opposed to the steroid era of A-Rod, Clemens, Bonds etc.

 

[Boss Nass]

when they see a guy like Halladay, never complains, incredible work ethic, no drama, old-school in every way they tend to look very favourably on that

And so they should!

 

[Dawgger]

*Gary Carter: Inducted in 2003, Carter was the first player to be affected by the new policy. Carter won his only championship with the 1986 New York Mets, and wanted his induction plaque to depict him wearing a Mets cap, even though he had spent twelve years (1974–84, 1992) with the Montreal Expos and only five (1985–89) with the Mets. The Hall of Fame decided that his plaque would instead show Carter with an Expos cap.

** Wade Boggs: Boggs's only championship was as a member of the 1996 New York Yankees, for whom he played from 1993–97, but his best career numbers were posted during his eleven years (1982–92) wearing the Boston Red Sox uniform. Boggs would eventually be depicted wearing a Boston cap for his 2005 induction, despite his acrimonious relationship with Red Sox management.

Thank you...I honestly did not know whether there were or wern't examples. Carter and Boggs being over ruled make sense to me.

 

[Mervyn]

Which cap with the HoF select (assuming he gets in) ?

Well with toronto over 12 years

W L W% ERA CG
148 76 .661 3.43 46

6 all star appearances, 1 cy young award, and for the 4 years prior to that cy young award was in the top 5.

He also has a year in there where he went 4-7 10.64 ERA

With the Phillies


w L W% ERA CG
32 13 .711 2.44 15

One all star appearance , 1 cy young award , came in 6th in MVP votes, through a perfect game, and only the second no hitter in post season history.

However his postseason record

NLDS

W L W% ERA CG
1 0 1.000 0.00 1

NLCS

W L W% ERA CG
1 1 .500 4.15 2

It's far too early to compare his Philly career to his Toronto Career, but already ready the sexy things like Perfect games and no-hitters in a postseason happened with philly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Up until 2001 the HOF deferred to the wishes of the multiple team players re. what team cap they are wearing on their plague.

It changed when Jose Canseco signed a contract l with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays where he promised to be inducted as a member of the Devil Rays if he ever got to Cooperstown.
The HOF committee did not like this arrangement and decided that henceforth the committee would listen to the wishes of multiple team players but they would make the final decision.

Gary Carter was the first player to be affected by the new policy because he wanted to go in wearing a Met cap; but, was overuled by the HOF committee.

The player's plaque lists all the teams for which the player was a member. At issue was what team cap the player is wearing on their HOF plaque.
The hall selects the team cap logo for the plaque based on where the player makes his "most indelible mark".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_and_Museum

 

[maurice93]

KT, everything you say sounds right, but I am fairly certain it was Wade Boggs, not Jose Canseco, who had that term in his contract with the Devil Rays.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

KT, everything you say sounds right, but I am fairly certain it was Wade Boggs, not Jose Canseco, who had that term in his contract with the Devil Rays.

In the past week or so, Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail referred to the Jose Canseco clause with the Devil Rays as the catalyst that moved the HOF to change the rules re. which cap a player wears on their HOF plaque.

All you have to do is google "Jose Canseco Devil Rays Cooperstown" and you'll get details of clause.
---
Quote:
"Canseco also agreed to one curious clause. If he plays at least three years with Tampa Bay -- and if he's elected to the Hall of Fame -- he will enter Cooperstown as a Devil Ray.

Safe to say, he would become the first such creature in the Hall."

http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-06-02/sports/17690077_1_canseco-s-career-jose-canseco-devil-ray

--
The Wikipedia article on Wade Boggs says there were rumours that the Devil Rays offered him money to go in as a Devil Ray; but, Boggs denies this was ever the case and stated that there was no provision in his Devil Ray contract about him wearing a Devil Ray cap if he ever got into Cooperstown.
Boggs did lobby the committee to be admitted with a Yankee cap on because he was bitter about the way he felt he was unfairly treated while in Boston Red Sox organization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Boggs