Sir, you have to remove your turban. This is the United States of America.

[Mencken]

I reluctantly agree that a church is within its "rights" to demand no headgear on men...and also demand that women have something on their heads. That is indeed the case in some churches today. But...even though it is a "right" perhaps...when they enforce it in the way that this example did (implying that it was because it was "America"...etc) it was a very very poor judgement. A church, above all places, should show tolerance to those who have not heard their particular message of god's love.

Having said that...I am of the opinion that all gods are just another pile of crap and religion stirs up more trouble than it is worth. But that's another issue.

On the other hand...if the same example took place in a Legion...the Legion should be forced to change its policy. Sihks fought with great honour and distinction in British forces and Canada owes them a great debt of gratitude. The turban should have a place of honour in our military history.

 

[dreamblade]

Are you trying to say attitudes toward women of sikhs in india are different than muslims in middle east?

In india a common consequence of female insubordination toward her man is battery acid thrown in her face to burn and disfigure her for life.

Would you like to watch a video of that as well dreamblade?

It's very enlightening.

Sure, as long as you also post about how the Christian beats/kills his daughter when she wears a mini-skirt or goes to a party. Or the many cases of North American men beating their wives, sometimes to disfigurement or death, on a regular basis.

Violence and repression against women is not a localised phenomenon. But as someone who has no contact with people from other parts of the world, despite living in a multi-cultural society, I don't expect you to be aware of this either.

Has it ever occurred to you that these people left their country to have a chance at a better life here? To be treated with the basic dignity yet to also be able to celebrate their heritage without sanction or exclusion?

My family left Eastern Europe to flee communist rule, not to start it here. These people, whether they wear a turban, a kippa, or a hijab are here for the same reasons.

More proof is this man, a Sikh, wasn't donating to a Punjabi or Indian charity, but one that would better his community as a whole, but was turned away for being different. His original action itself completely negates your arguments of "Fuckem all! They're all the same">

 

[Rylan]

but was turned away for being different.

He wasn't turned away for being different. He wasn't turned away at all. He was told he needed to remove his head covering before he could enter.

Let's be clear here shall we? If you wanted to walk in with a baseball cap on, they would have told you the same thing.

 

[Back Burner]

So basically what I've learned from this thread is if you look Muslim, you're Muslim and a terrorist.

He wasn't turned away for being different. He wasn't turned away at all. He was told he needed to remove his head covering before he could enter.

Let's be clear here shall we? If you wanted to walk in with a baseball cap on, they would have told you the same thing.

Poor example. Good example, a Jewish man with a yarmulke walks in.

Or even better....


A Jew, a Sikh, and a Christian walk into a bar.

 

[Esco!]

So basically what I've learned from this thread is if you look Muslim, you're Muslim and a terrorist

Thats right BB


Now give me the detonators!!



GIVE ME THE DAMN DETONATORS!!!!!!!!!!!

Signed,

Hans Gruber
Nakatomi Towers



.

 

[tboy]

1) Once again, the rule applies to EVERYONE and if any person of any race or religion immigrates (emigrates?) to another country to escape whatever, they should be prepared to embrace the rules of their new country. If not totally at least bend their ways to adapt.
2) Yes, sikhs served in the british military with distinction. The problem is: those sikhs are all dead (or most of them are). The WHOLE problem with the statement (that turbans should be honored) is that why should a whole society be honored for the deeds of a few. This whole train of thought to honor an entire religion because of the deeds of a few is no different than the islamic extremists condemning ALL westerners because of the deeds of a few.
3) While I embrace the multi-culturism of Canda, and I enjoy the fact that many different peoples have come here to build a better life, what I don't embrace and hate having shoved down my throat is the fact that these peoples don't just ask for special treatment, they demand it. Again, I don't think the host country should change to meet the demands of the immgrants, I think the immigrants should adapt to the new country.

Now if the church FORCED him to remove his turban, or told him he wasn't welcome because he wasn't white, then yes, that would have been totally wrong. But to expect everyone in that church to follow the rules and to think the rules shouldn't be applied to him, well, that is just plain wrong.

A perfect example is (I think it is sikhs too) the ceremonial dagger that the men need to wear. The "real" one is about 3 feet long. So this is against the law so they wear one that isn't sharp, and is small enough to be legally worn or carried. This is a great example of adapting your customs to meet the laws and rules of a society.

 

[mmouse]

A "no hats" rule is reasonable.
Telling the guy "This is the United States" is retarded. That's why the guy got upset and made a fuss.

 

[Questor]

A "no hats" rule is reasonable.
Telling the guy "This is the United States" is retarded. That's why the guy got upset and made a fuss.

Thank you. In a few short words, this manages to focus the issue. It may not be a racist policy, but the comment was apparently motivated by extreme intolerance, if not racism.

 

[tboy]

Thank you. In a few short words, this manages to focus the issue. It may not be a racist policy, but it the comment was motivated extreme intolerance, if not racism.

Tell me: how can it be a racist comment when tje comment wasn't based in any way on race?

If anything the comment was on citizenship......

 

[mmouse]

Read again.

It may not be a racist policy, but the comment was apparently motivated by extreme intolerance, if not racism.

 

[Rylan]

I get what you guys are saying. If I wanted to be a dick, I would agree that maybe the person who said this is the United States simply meant, this is the US and we have the freedom to make our own policies regardless of whether you agree or not. If that was in fact the case, there is nothing wrong with that statement.

I don't think the comment was the best out of the bunch to make, but I don't think it was meant to be racist either.

This whole debating thread of 4 pages as not been about the comment though. It has been the debate about his turban. At least for the most part.

 

[dajodo2]

Sure, as long as you also post about how the Christian beats/kills his daughter when she wears a mini-skirt or goes to a party. Or the many cases of North American men beating their wives, sometimes to disfigurement or death, on a regular basis.

Violence and repression against women is not a localised phenomenon. But as someone who has no contact with people from other parts of the world, despite living in a multi-cultural society, I don't expect you to be aware of this either.

Has it ever occurred to you that these people left their country to have a chance at a better life here? To be treated with the basic dignity yet to also be able to celebrate their heritage without sanction or exclusion?

My family left Eastern Europe to flee communist rule, not to start it here. These people, whether they wear a turban, a kippa, or a hijab are here for the same reasons.

More proof is this man, a Sikh, wasn't donating to a Punjabi or Indian charity, but one that would better his community as a whole, but was turned away for being different. His original action itself completely negates your arguments of "Fuckem all! They're all the same">

One big flaw in your argument is the fact that in Western culture men who are accused of those acts are arrested, tried, then convicted accordingly if found guilty. In middle eastern and south asian cultures a blind eye is turned to the same examples of violence you mention above.

Personally I really don't give a toss what goes on in cultures other than my own to be honest.

The West is the best.

One negative drawback in Western nations, especially in Canada, is that it is too easy for these people to flee their undesirable homelands like you say. They choose to ride the coat tails of freedom that my British ancestors created, fought for, and died for instead of fighting for change and improved standards of living in their own second or third worlds...take you family for example.

It's too bad the rest of your ancestors and fellow countrymen didn't have a bit of your fighting spirit dreamblade that you are exuding now with me... especially back in '39.

Mine did.

 

[dreamblade]

One big flaw in your argument is the fact that in Western culture men who are accused of those acts are arrested, tried, then convicted accordingly if found guilty. In middle eastern and south asian cultures a blind eye is turned to the same examples of violence you mention above.

That's where you're wrong. Even in the lowest castes in India, militias are forming to police against such crimes. And many communities here turn a blind eye to their women being beaten here. Stick your head out of the West and get informed.

Personally I really don't give a toss what goes on in cultures other than my own to be honest.

The West is the best.

Ah! I see you for the jingoist you really are.

One negative drawback in Western nations, especially in Canada, is that it is too easy for these people to flee their undesirable homelands like you say. They choose to ride the coat tails of freedom that my British ancestors created, fought for, and died for instead of fighting for change and improved standards of living in their own second or third worlds...take you family for example.

It's too bad the rest of your ancestors and fellow countrymen didn't have a bit of your fighting spirit dreamblade that you are exuding now with me... especially back in '39.

Mine did.

Once again, you not only prove your ignorance, but also your lack of tact, something I am sure your revered ancestors would have been quick to denounce you for.

My country mounted the first resistance against the Nazis in Europe, and also fought to save your precious British cities from being destroyed. We were also instrumental in tearing down the Berlin Wall, not just from within the country, but from abroad.

Yes, some of us left, because some of us weren't fighters, per se. Would you ask an engineer to pick up a gun? A doctor to start lobbing grenades? A father to go fighting and leave his family to poverty and starvation? No, you pick your battles.

I myself served in the Canadian army. I speak both official languages fluently. I know the history of my country of birth and yours with significant detail, and I vote in every election. I count friends of every colour, of every continent, of every sexual orientation, and religion. Can you say the same?

So tell me, who's the better Canadian?

You, sir, are a severe disappointment to those ancestors you so proudly quote.

 

[coolcat]

Well, I know personally of a particular location in Brampton where everyone must wear perotective gear including hard hats, But these individuals do not have to wear the hard hats becuase of there turbin. WTF!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Angela@Mirage]

Sure, as long as you also post about how the Christian beats/kills his daughter when she wears a mini-skirt or goes to a party. Or the many cases of North American men beating their wives, sometimes to disfigurement or death, on a regular basis.

Violence and repression against women is not a localised phenomenon. But as someone who has no contact with people from other parts of the world, despite living in a multi-cultural society, I don't expect you to be aware of this either.

Has it ever occurred to you that these people left their country to have a chance at a better life here? To be treated with the basic dignity yet to also be able to celebrate their heritage without sanction or exclusion?

My family left Eastern Europe to flee communist rule, not to start it here. These people, whether they wear a turban, a kippa, or a hijab are here for the same reasons.

More proof is this man, a Sikh, wasn't donating to a Punjabi or Indian charity, but one that would better his community as a whole, but was turned away for being different. His original action itself completely negates your arguments of "Fuckem all! They're all the same">

Well put, my freind.

 

[Angela@Mirage]

He wasn't turned away for being different. He wasn't turned away at all. He was told he needed to remove his head covering before he could enter.

Let's be clear here shall we? If you wanted to walk in with a baseball cap on, they would have told you the same thing.

Would they tell the chap with the ball cap, "this is america?" I highly doubt it.

 

[Angela@Mirage]

A "no hats" rule is reasonable.
Telling the guy "This is the United States" is retarded. That's why the guy got upset and made a fuss.

My god, someone is actually getting it. It is nice to see you can think outside the box.

 

[Angela@Mirage]

One big flaw in your argument is the fact that in Western culture men who are accused of those acts are arrested, tried, then convicted accordingly if found guilty. In middle eastern and south asian cultures a blind eye is turned to the same examples of violence you mention above.

Personally I really don't give a toss what goes on in cultures other than my own to be honest.

The West is the best.

One negative drawback in Western nations, especially in Canada, is that it is too easy for these people to flee their undesirable homelands like you say. They choose to ride the coat tails of freedom that my British ancestors created, fought for, and died for instead of fighting for change and improved standards of living in their own second or third worlds...take you family for example.

It's too bad the rest of your ancestors and fellow countrymen didn't have a bit of your fighting spirit dreamblade that you are exuding now with me... especially back in '39.

Mine did.

Back off. There is no need to get personal in this discussion.

 

[Rylan]

Would they tell the chap with the ball cap, "this is america?" I highly doubt it.

Ya maybe. We say it here all the time. This is Canada, we have free speech - Blah, Blah, Blah - you don't know how the conversation really went down. You just assume it was meant in some hate-spirited way to people who are different, but that might not be the case at all.

We don't know what was said by who first. We have one account that was written by the media, and we all know how the media likes to hype things up.

If Khera was going on about his right to wear his turban..

"I am a Sihks, and it is my right and religious belief to wear my turban......

Then I can see a reply of : "but this is America. We also have the right to make and enforce any policy we deem appropriate......"

The quote of America could have been used to express the individual "freedoms" that the US stands for. It could have also been used on both sides for the purpose of debate between the two. It was even used used in the article. Khera said "I am a United States citizen." Also remember it was his "recollection" that was accounted in the article.

So saying "This is America" can be used in many ways. If you can not open your mind to that and all other possibilities, then there is no point in trying to debate it with you.

So what do we know?

-He was not "discriminated" against - the policy was the same for everyone
-There was no racist action - the policy was the same for everyone
-The one possible problem was the "This is America" comment which we don't know which content it was actually used in. So we still can really bitch because we don't know.

I know many guys on here that know better then to wear a hat at the dinner table, and we know this because we seriously got told:

"This is the dinner table! No hats at the table!"

 

[Back Burner]

Okay okay....

A Jew, a Sikh, and a Christian walk into a bar. The bartender says, "you can't wear the shit on your head in here. Take it off!!".

The Jew and the Sikh both turn to the Christian and say, "dude take off the fucking Leafs cap"