Stacy Clarke...should be fired...
- Thread starter Skoob
- Start date
Thanks for the reply, schlong.
First off, I don't accuse everyone of racism. Growing up here racism was rampant, I remember as a kid yelling out 'paki' or other racist slander at people as being the norm. I don't think you're racist either, I think there are vestiges of previous social norms that, hopefully, we are all trying to change to get better. Same with me, I'm trying to get better and trying to address systematic issues that hit my friends and coworkers. So no, I'm not arguing that you are racist but that you need to be careful with historic arguments that are based on racism. Its the same way with sexism, attitudes that I grew up with are now offensive and I try to work to correct them and sometimes people have to point them out so I can be better and make others around me more comfortable. Times change and we must as well.
That's all I see in your posts, arguments that have historically been linked to racist attacks but I'm not sure that you seem them the same way. I'll take one and show you what I mean.
Historically this line has been used to try to label Palestinians as religious extremists as a way to discount legit arguments about being indigenous to the land. Hamas are Islamic and pretty hard core religious but in their statements they are clear that they are fighting for the recovery of Palestine for Palestinians. Arguing that they are fighting for religion is factually wrong. They are religious and they are fighting for their land can both be correct.
As for Clarke, I have yet to see you admit that there are systemic issues with the TPS that need addressing and that Clarke was trying to address those issues but the system wasn't changing. Nobody on this board has argued that what she did wasn't wrong, its really just about the punishment. What I'm curious about is why you argue for a stronger punishment than the chief or prosecutor want for Clarke. From my point of view just because its a rule or law doesn't make it always correct.
Giving her a harsh punishment or firing her will be seen by black cops and the black community as epitomizing the systemic issues she was acting against. Do you really want a system that works towards maintaining the systemic status quo or do want a system that continues to evolve?
Are we now just making up hypothetical situations to justify why someone in a trusted high-level police position should be shown leniency for cheating?One of the hallmark features of systemic racism, is that it does not happen for no reason. There are always reasons. For example, and purely hypothetical - say a black man assaulted a police officer - which is absolutely against the law. But when the prosecution brings the guy to court, they will seek to impose the maximum possible penalty on him, regardless of what the context was. However a white guy for the same crime, may for one reason or another, face a lower charge and a smaller penalty.
If you bring this up, they will always have the crime to point to, and shrug the racism accusation off. This is how systemic racism persists. One great example was in this recent Netflix TV series "Man in Full", where an otherwise law abiding black man, punches out a police officer and faces all kinds of hurdles in court, especially with the judge, even when the prosecutor was more agreeable.
This is one such case. This particular officer has no prior record and has displayed exemplary behaviour throughout her career. This was one occasion when she broke laws. But notice how the calls are for strict application of the law, and the severest possible penalties, while ignoring the context in which it was committed, which is persistent systemic racism, essentially trying to discredit it, by using her violation of the law as an excuse.
You are also right in reading between the lines here and not taking things at face value. Infact, I have never found taking things at face value to be useful at all in life. You gotta read between the lines. People can also say anything, but their intent matters. So once again your observation is perceptive.
Justice, fairness, equality etc are not an intellectual/academic exercise. They are emotional exercises which is why the law often times works against these things, because the law can only interpret things as black and white. But most things are a shade of grey and therefore common sense needs to be used, and not just robotic decision making based on the law.
A firing therefore is unnecessary. A demotion is the only appropriate punishment for her wrong doing. Even the prosecution seems to think so.
Are we now using fictitious Netflix shows to distract from reality?
Intent? Your intent from the very beginning here was to excuse her and show leniency simply because she's a black officer. No other reason other than that. That's racist.
There is no reading between the lines here. She should be fired. Stop making excuses.
I am entitled to my opinion in that I think she should be fired. I've stated multiple times that I would hold the same opinion for anyone in a similar situation.
As per the story, this would "normally result in dismissal" so I'm not wrong as far as a typical outcome of punishments.
Ironically, we have a black officer that's saying black officers are not given the same opportunities when she herself was promoted by a black police chief.
This excuse doesn't hold water. Sorry.
She should be fired.
Except when it's an unrelated issue and someone is just a cheater.
Honesty, and integrity or lack thereof, are not related to racism.
Misconduct of a senior officer is not related to racism.
Cheating is not related to racism.
Breach of trust is not related to racism.
Risk to public safety is not related to racism.
Doing the wrong thing is not related to racism.
You can stop making excuses now.
My opinion is that racism, real, imagined, random or systemic is no excuse for lying, cheating, breach of trust, violation of a police officer's oath to secrecy and upholding the law. No matter how noble the goal. At least in our rules based society.
Ironically, the two strident accusers of racism miss the only actual proven racist individual in this matter. Supt Stacey Clarke.
Supt Clarke only gave the black officers the information. Why?
At the very core of this issue is why did she think the black officers were not able to pass the exam on their own merits, abilities and hard work to study hard enough to pass the exam?
Personally, I''d be insulted if someone gave me cheat codes where I was being tested. Do they think I can't learn and earn myself a passing grade?
They aren't making excuses, they are very principled and stridently advocate for cheating, terrorism, rape, kidnapping, ransom, mass murder of innocent concert goers shot in portable toilets in the furtherance of whatever their personal interests, experiences and place in life they feel justifies such unethical behaviour.
It's really that simple. To some people, cops included, the end justifies the means. No matter what.
Agreed.
It's a slippery slope when the ones we entrust with upholding honesty are the ones that break that trust and then look for an excuse after the fact to justify their reasons.
Imagine if that happened in the medical field? Or airline safety, etc. i.e. people breaking policies and trust for reasons they believe are justified.
An "unfair" system that promoted her and entrusted her with a high ranking position and who was promoted by a high ranking person of colour themselves.
That's not an unfair system.
The prosecutor actually said that normally someone would be fired.
Imagine a society whereby individuals skirt rules, responsibility and ethics because they believe the ends justify the means.
And of course, there are those here that conveniently accept that type of society when a situation fits their current narrative but then cry foul when it doesn't.
Its the entire reason that this thread started and continues, skoob.
Do you care that DoFo uses the OPP plane as his private transportation? No.
Do you care about other bad cops in the TPS? No
Do you have a pattern of supporting racism in other threads? Yes
Because the TPS has a success rate of 1.7% for promotions of black officers.
Because she tried to get policy changed that other cops use to continue systematic racism, had it approved at the board, but someone above her cancelled it. So she acted as if that policy went through.
Can you prove that the cops she offered the questions to weren't cops she thought were the best candidates and that this was the best way to get cops past that 1.7% promotion rate?
It's interesting that you are using point-in-time percentages as your basis that there is systemic racism within TPS that inspired Clarke to cheat.
In that particular pool that you are getting your number from, there were 58 black applicants. 13.7% were interviewed. 1.7% were hired.
That's all that your 1.7% number means. It's not a smoking gun that proves racism. Too many variables to consider here without more data over time with the interview outcomes provided. Such as other visible minorities that were interviewed/hired, how large or small were subsequent pools of applicants, what was the interview/hiring criteria, etc.
In other words, you have it backwards if you think a certain percentage of any race needs to be hired to make things fair otherwise there is "systemic racism".
But keep coming up with excuses.
Excuses?
Toronto Police Admit Systemic Racism: Damning Statistics Show Police Targeting of Black Torontonians and Other Racialized Communities - Falconers LLP
Leading human rights and police accountability firm Falconers LLP responds to Toronto Police admission of systemic racism.
falconers.ca
If you insist on being lazy and/or thinking I'm making shit up like you, then here you go...
https://www.cp24.com/news/systemic-...for-helping-racialized-police-cheat-1.6879486
Wrong.
That 1.7% was a one-time summary when TPS had 58 applications from black candidates. It is not indicative of anything other than that single occurrence which could have been the case for a variety of reasons.
Stop spreading misinformation. It's proof you are out to lunch on this one and are desperately trying to make a race issue out of misconduct.
He brought it up because of issues brought forward about community safety and relations with TPS and not due to TPS not hiring enough black officers.
You are mixing things up here.
