Surface-to-air missiles to protect London 2012 Olympics

nervous

no longer.....
Nov 28, 2004
276
0
0
Too bad that Iraq didn't have any surface-to-air missiles to protect
its citizens from the shock and awe campaign of Bush in 2003. Time
to pay the price for being Bush's English poodle.
Time to remind you which side you should be on. You benefit from living under the protection western society...but love to hate it. Why not move to a country that better suits you?
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,750
3
0
well at least The Archduke was and that it was an act of a freedom fighter and not a terrorist.
Of course your military argument falls apart upon the body of Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg.

Further, I'm not sure how this thread of logic would run, are you are arguing that the Serbian Government was supporting the Black Hand? Since Gavrilo Princips' goal was stopping Franz Ferdinand's planned reforms and increased "federalsim" which would Serbain Nationalist elements believed thwart Serbian expansion, unless you are arguing he was in fact a Serbian agent how else could it not be an act of terrorism.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
14,799
2,502
113
Ghawar
Time to remind you which side you should be on. You benefit from living under the protection western society...but love to hate it. Why not move to a country that better suits you?

Are you saying that we Canadians were living under Bush and Blairs' protection from
invasion by Saddams army back in 2003?
 

Pastor Tricky

Banned
Jan 9, 2011
210
0
0
Of course your military argument falls apart upon the body of Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg.

Further, I'm not sure how this thread of logic would run, are you are arguing that the Serbian Government was supporting the Black Hand? Since Gavrilo Princips' goal was stopping Franz Ferdinand's planned reforms and increased "federalsim" which would Serbain Nationalist elements believed thwart Serbian expansion, unless you are arguing he was in fact a Serbian agent how else could it not be an act of terrorism.
Because if you take terrorism at what it really is I don't believe that this was an act of terrorism. If you look at terrorism organically, its basically an act with the intent of instilling fear or terror in the populace. Although the Serbian government denied involvement in the assassination, it's military definitely was involved with support including intelligence, weapons and other resources. The assassination was gamble with the intent to provoke the Austro-Hungarians into conflict.
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
Because if you take terrorism at what it really is I don't believe that this was an act of terrorism. If you look at terrorism organically, its basically an act with the intent of instilling fear or terror in the populace. Although the Serbian government denied involvement in the assassination, it's military definitely was involved with support including intelligence, weapons and other resources. The assassination was gamble with the intent to provoke the Austro-Hungarians into conflict.
That is a novel interpretation. The assassin was a short little fuck who had been rejected the military and seemed out to prove himself. It did not work out so well.

I don't think the Serbian government was looking for that confrontation is that way.
 

Pastor Tricky

Banned
Jan 9, 2011
210
0
0
That is a novel interpretation. The assassin was a short little fuck who had been rejected the military and seemed out to prove himself. It did not work out so well.

I don't think the Serbian government was looking for that confrontation is that way.
Yeah I agree that World War 1 was not the best possible outcome. But Princip wasn't the mastermind behind the assassination so his personal motives mean jackshit.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,957
8
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
I agree that the word "terrorism" should be reserved for attacks on civilian targets that have the goal of instilling fear in the population. The words should NOT be used for attacks on military targets, even when those attacks are criminal.

So Al Qaeda's attack on the WTC was classic terrorism, because it targetted civilians, with the clear goal of instilling fear.

However the attack on the USS Cole, although likely/probably criminal, and certainly worthy of a response from the US, was NOT terrorism because it was an attack on a military target and cannot be construed to have had instilling fear in civilians as a goal.

It is possible to argue that an act is unlawful or unjust without having to call it terrorism. I think the word "terrorism" is watered down by these misuses.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,750
3
0
It is possible to argue that an act is unlawful or unjust without having to call it terrorism. I think the word "terrorism" is watered down by these misuses.
Your second point may well be so, however, as to your first point there are several different and equally valid definitions of terrorism and some do include attacks on military targets by non state actors.
 

Pastor Tricky

Banned
Jan 9, 2011
210
0
0
I agree that the word "terrorism" should be reserved for attacks on civilian targets that have the goal of instilling fear in the population. The words should NOT be used for attacks on military targets, even when those attacks are criminal.

So Al Qaeda's attack on the WTC was classic terrorism, because it targetted civilians, with the clear goal of instilling fear.

However the attack on the USS Cole, although likely/probably criminal, and certainly worthy of a response from the US, was NOT terrorism because it was an attack on a military target and cannot be construed to have had instilling fear in civilians as a goal.

It is possible to argue that an act is unlawful or unjust without having to call it terrorism. I think the word "terrorism" is watered down by these misuses.
The attack on the USS Cole was committed by terrorists but I agree that its hard to call the attack itself terrorist.

And although WTC was classic terrorism, what about the pentagon? Military target. The term terrorism is so subjective and pretty much why (I believe) there is no absolute definition.
 

5hummer

Active member
Sep 6, 2008
3,787
5
38
I would expect suicide bombers and bio-chemical attacks are more probable than an air attack?
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,750
3
0
I would expect suicide bombers and bio-chemical attacks are more probable than an air attack?
You, I suspect are correct, and I'm sure the British security forces may think so as well, however, as mentioned about one crosses all the "t"s and dots all the "i"s that you can think of.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,957
8
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
Your second point may well be so, however, as to your first point there are several different and equally valid definitions of terrorism and some do include attacks on military targets by non state actors.
In my opinion those definitions of terrorism are wrong and invalid.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
79,957
8
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
And although WTC was classic terrorism, what about the pentagon? Military target.
Depends on how you define "target". I would think that the jetliner that was crashed into the Pentagon was just as much the target as the Pentagon itself, and in fact was responsible for most of the casualties.

Had they flown, say, a cargo plane into the Pentagon rather than a Jetliner then I would agree, but they chose a jetliner, and I think the jetliner was more the target than what they crashed it into.

In any case I agree with the way you put it for the Cole: The group that carried out the attack is clearly at terrorist organization, even if not every one of its attacks is terrorist, and even if ALL their attacks are criminal. Al Qaeda certainly has committed no shortage of acts that are terrorist by ANY definition of the word, such as the repeated attacks on the WTC.
 

Pastor Tricky

Banned
Jan 9, 2011
210
0
0
Depends on how you define "target". I would think that the jetliner that was crashed into the Pentagon was just as much the target as the Pentagon itself, and in fact was responsible for most of the casualties.

Had they flown, say, a cargo plane into the Pentagon rather than a Jetliner then I would agree, but they chose a jetliner, and I think the jetliner was more the target than what they crashed it into.

In any case I agree with the way you put it for the Cole: The group that carried out the attack is clearly at terrorist organization, even if not every one of its attacks is terrorist, and even if ALL their attacks are criminal. Al Qaeda certainly has committed no shortage of acts that are terrorist by ANY definition of the word, such as the repeated attacks on the WTC.
Ok yeah, the fact that people were kind of leary of flying cause it was a civi plane used I would agree. How's the diarrhea from all that milk doing?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts