Tearing down the Gardiner - WTF??

[cortes]

But hey, all you have to do is read what internet forum posters are saying when comparing Toronto to Chicago....

http://www.city-data.com/forum/canada/206567-chicago-v-s-toronto.html

Checked out that discussion board, here are all the mentions of the waterfront:

By the way, does one have any idea why the area south of Front street is such a mess? Anyone agrees with the Gardiner Expressway ruins the beauty of the lakeshore?


Chicago's water front is really awesome. Last time i was dining on the 96th floor, and view is simply fantastic!
It is sad to know the Toronto waterfront is dominated by elevedate highways. Why the hell would the city planners want to ruin the view?


I grew up in the Chicago area but spent most of my adult life in Toronto.

All I would add to the previous comments is that Chicago's waterfront is vastly superior, with its combination of cultural attractions, open space, and stunning architecture. Toronto's waterfront is dominated by an elevated highway (the Gardiner), tacky condo towers, and crumbling industrial wastelands.

But aside from the sad waterfront, I liked Toronto far better.


Strangely enough, no one on that board was defending Toronto's beautiful waterfront...

 

[cortes]

A load of crap. I, along with many others, walk from the downtown core to Harbourfront nearly every day in the summer. It's a pleasant walk, the biggest issue is crossing the Lakeshore. Being under the Gardiner doesn't bother me, just as being under the eL in Chicago doesn't bother me.

The Gardiner isn't an issue. If you tore it down and left a level roadway, it would be worse to cross.

A pleasant walk?? That's interesting. I guess if you like iron girders, rotting concrete and the roar of traffic, it is. Me, I tend to think of quaint European cities with cafes and artists in berets when I use the word "pleasant."

 

[LancsLad]

A pleasant walk?? That's interesting. I guess if you like iron girders, rotting concrete and the roar of traffic, it is. Me, I tend to think of quaint European cities with cafes and artists in berets when I use the word "pleasant."

"artists in berets."???


Are you another one of those gay frog euroweenies????



.

 

[onthebottom]

Are you Robert Fung's son?

Chicago? Are you on glue?

Half of the city is fall down, the other half gated.

Never mind it's the murder capital of the United States of America.

Toronto currently out-classes Chicago in every way shape and form other than (arguably) a skyline.

Not since 1967 has a year concluded with fewer than 600 people being murdered here. Last year's total was 665, up from 631 in 2000. As of Friday, this year's toll stood at 571, with 10 percent of the year yet to go.

Chicago's murder total topped those of all U.S. cities last year. More significantly, Chicago's murder rate -- total homicides divided by the population of 2.9 million -- was the highest of the nine U.S. cities with populations above 1 million.

http://www.poynter.org/dg.lts/id.19727/content.content_view.htm

As to "the model", please, change one of the input assumptions and everything goes right out the window. (Gravity Model anyone?)

The Gardiner Expressway and the DVP are currently free flowing connected urban expressways with a design speed of 120 km/hr.

The champagne socialists down at City Hall keeping refering to the tear down of the eastern leg of the Gardiner (the never constructed Scarborough Expressway) as evidence that this will work. Please, that leg of the Gardiner went nowhere and connected to nothing and basically was a road into the Beaches. You can not logically compare the 2 and make the conclusion that the Gardiner and the Eastern leg are one in the same. The Gardiner and the DVP are currently linked and things work just fine. You want a great city, you need sound transportation links.

Want proof?

Simple, install traffic lights at Jarvis, Parliament, Shorborune, and Cherry and watch the fun in the mornning rush hour. Traffic will be backed up to the 401 on the DVP and the 427 on the Gardiner.

Miller is the biggest catatonic zombie that has ever sat in the Mayor's chair.

I've spent quite a bit of time in both Chicago and Toronto and I'd have to say that Toronto is at best a small Chicago.

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

Look at what they did in Boston, and for only a few tens of Billions.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...g+dig&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&sa=N

OTB

 

[Tangwhich]

It is sad to know the Toronto waterfront is dominated by elevedate highways. Why the hell would the city planners want to ruin the view?

Good question, why would the city planners want to ruin the view by allowing all those condos to be built there?

I bet if you're on a boat looking at the Toronto waterfront you can't even see the Gardiner. The waterfront is permanently ruined and the gardiner is not the reason.

 

[benstt]

A pleasant walk?? That's interesting. I guess if you like iron girders, rotting concrete and the roar of traffic, it is. Me, I tend to think of quaint European cities with cafes and artists in berets when I use the word "pleasant."

Harbourfont is great, in the few months of the year that it has habitable temperatures. You pass underneath the gardiner to get there, but I don't see it as an issue. There are the usual sidewalks, pedestrian crossings, etc. Yes, you see massive concrete pillars. This is a city, not a meadow. Take the streetcar if you can't handle it.

The roar would be worse if the gardiner were a level road. You'd have to bury it, or provide pedestrian walkways, elevated or sunken. Those have their own psychological issues.

Once you get the Gardiner gone (and buried?), you still have the railway tracks to deal with. Standing on Front looking south, it's the railway tracks that are the first barrier between you and the lake. They've enclosed some of the key sidewalks, as the noise in those underpasses is far worse than the gardiner or lakeshore.

 

[james t kirk]

Strangely enough, no one on that board was defending Toronto's beautiful waterfront...

I would rather have them leave it the way it is than do to it what they would like to do it. (More concrete and glass condos.)

That's all the Asian developers understand or want - money. As quickly and cheaply as possible.

 

[james t kirk]

Harbourfont is great, in the few months of the year that it has habitable temperatures. You pass underneath the gardiner to get there, but I don't see it as an issue. There are the usual sidewalks, pedestrian crossings, etc. Yes, you see massive concrete pillars. This is a city, not a meadow. Take the streetcar if you can't handle it.

The roar would be worse if the gardiner were a level road. You'd have to bury it, or provide pedestrian walkways, elevated or sunken. Those have their own psychological issues.

Once you get the Gardiner gone (and buried?), you still have the railway tracks to deal with. Standing on Front looking south, it's the railway tracks that are the first barrier between you and the lake. They've enclosed some of the key sidewalks, as the noise in those underpasses is far worse than the gardiner or lakeshore.

Exactly.

The tracks (12 of them) aren't going anywhere ever.

An at grade road will be far nosier than the Gardiner. On the Gardiner, you drive through at a constant speed of 90 or so.

An at grade (12 Lane Wide (wide as the 401), you stop, you start. With that comes noise and pollution. Lots of it.