The City of Toronto gravy train found

[wet_suit_one]

So if I'm reading this thread correctly, Toronto elected an idiot for mayor is that it?

Well, like elections everywhere, the voters get what they deserve!

Tee hee!

 

[good to go]

If the bicycle users want to ride on the street then they should be licensed and pay insurance like everyone else on the road.

 

[oldjones]

If the bicycle users want to ride on the street then they should be licensed and pay insurance like everyone else on the road.

Given that our present police traffic officers can't enforce the HTA adequately now, and Robbie wants to cut 200 from the TPS manpopwer, just how would this admirable idea be enforced and by whom? Would it apply to everyone riding on the road—10 yr olds f'rinstance?

Like the many bad drivers that licenses and enforcement haven't stopped, this will not affect the bad cyclists. But by all means more taxes for more bike cops and license bureaus, but I'd bet we'd do better with more taxes for mandatory 'biker ed.' in public schools and a 'john school' approach for offenders.

The Topic however is the TO Gravy Train, your idea, which would undoubtedly require provincial legislation is pretty far afield.

 

[blackrock13]

Given that our present police traffic officers can't enforce the HTA adequately now, and Robbie wants to cut 200 from the TPS manpopwer, just how would this admirable idea be enforced and by whom? Would it apply to everyone riding on the road—10 yr olds f'rinstance?

Like the many bad drivers that licenses and enforcement haven't stopped, this will not affect the bad cyclists. But by all means more taxes for more bike cops and license bureaus, but I'd bet we'd do better with more taxes for mandatory 'biker ed.' in public schools and a 'john school' approach for offenders.

The Topic however is the TO Gravy Train, your idea, which would undoubtedly require provincial legislation is pretty far afield.

Hey I've got no problem with a license for each bike, like it use to be back in the day. $10 a bike at 900,000+ (adult) cyclist. There's $9 million and those who don't bother, well then 10x that would be a just fine. How many accidents do cyclist cause?

Ooops, my bad, 1.8 million bikes in TO at $10 a head. Whoa!!

 

[mindingmyownbusiness]

Hey I've got no problem with a license for each bike, like it use to be back in the day. $10 a bike at 900,000+ (adult) cyclist. There's $9 million and those who don't bother, well then 10x that would be a just fine. How many accidents do cyclist cause?

Ooops, my bad, 1.8 million bikes in TO at $10 a head. Whoa!!

Hi blackrock13,

yes this would be a great revenue source - the city needs the money. To get even more money why not a vehicle registration tax - cars take up more space and their weight is harder on the roads and they cause smog which negatively affects everyone.

Ooops, my bad. That was scrapped! (by the way I bike and own a car - I paid the registration fee but was not eligible for the refund!)

 

[Jennifer_]

So if I'm reading this thread correctly, Toronto elected an idiot for mayor is that it?

Well, like elections everywhere, the voters get what they deserve!

Tee hee!

... Ya pretty-much. Who cares about the environment and the gay population and downtown residents.... Unfortunately too many people just didn't vote- its our own damn fault.

 

[blackrock13]

Hi blackrock13,

yes this would be a great revenue source - the city needs the money. To get even more money why not a vehicle registration tax - cars take up more space and their weight is harder on the roads and they cause smog which negatively affects everyone.

Ooops, my bad. That was scrapped! (by the way I bike and own a car - I paid the registration fee but was not eligible for the refund!)

If you can afford the $10.00, maybe we can make a deal just for you, $5.00. A registered bike is easier to return if found.

 

[mindingmyownbusiness]

Actually I have no problems with registring my bike your absolutely right, when I was growing up on sudbury there was a registration system, you got a shiny decal to put on your bike. It was part of a bike safety awareness campaign for kids, something I think should come back (doubly so for the idiot adult bikers as well)

But my point was that how can we charge for registring bikes when the vehicle registration fee was scrapped? Especially that, I am sorry but it is true, that cars are the cause of congestion, smog and the wear and tear on the city streets.

Let me pre-empt you by noting that taxes are already paid by motorists, but that meney goes to the province, and the .05 gas tax that does get distributed to the cities does not come close to covering the costs.

 

[blackrock13]

Actually I have no problems with registring my bike your absolutely right, when I was growing up on sudbury there was a registration system, you got a shiny decal to put on your bike. It was part of a bike safety awareness campaign for kids, something I think should come back (doubly so for the idiot adult bikers as well)

But my point was that how can we charge for registring bikes when the vehicle registration fee was scrapped? Especially that, I am sorry but it is true, that cars are the cause of congestion, smog and the wear and tear on the city streets.

Let me pre-empt you by noting that taxes are already paid by motorists, but that meney goes to the province, and the .05 gas tax that does get distributed to the cities does not come close to covering the costs.

On the provincial tax inequities we agree. $10 is a little different then $60(?). Call it a $10 parking pass.

 

[mindingmyownbusiness]

At the same time as the $10 (like I said above i have no problem with it) parking pass would you agree to the re-instatement of the registration tax?

My point is you can't have one without the other. Taxing the least costly option and giving the option with the higher associated costs a free pass (in terms of the city level) doesn't make sense.

 

[blackrock13]

I am sorry, I keep coming back to this question in my mind: "Why did Toronto elect a wife beating, drug dealing guy as mayor"? I would expect that anyone capable of running the city should have more integrity than his checkered past.

There was no charges laid on the domestic as it was simply he said she said, unless you know different.

 

[red]

Sure thing, he was arrested in florida when he was younger but his daddy's connections got him out of the pot dealing charge and same goes for when he was arrested for beating his drunk wife. It is in the news, google is your best friend. No matter whether or not the charges stuck, the fact remains that that is the kind of integrity the person running Toronto has.

hey guess what. he won the election.

 

[blackrock13]

Sure thing, he was arrested in florida when he was younger but his daddy's connections got him out of the pot dealing charge and same goes for when he was arrested for beating his drunk wife. It is in the news, google is your best friend. No matter whether or not the charges stuck, the fact remains that that is the kind of integrity the person running Toronto has.

I didn't know about the drug charges. Didn't we all do stupid thing s when we were younger? You obviously read different news about the domestic and nothing was ever said about daddy getting him out. What I remember the wife's story was full of holes and wouldn't hold up under a challenge.

Obviously the electorate thought much the same thing, unless of course you think daddy bought election for him.

 

[oldjones]

Hey I've got no problem with a license for each bike, like it use to be back in the day. $10 a bike at 900,000+ (adult) cyclist. There's $9 million and those who don't bother, well then 10x that would be a just fine. How many accidents do cyclist cause?

Ooops, my bad, 1.8 million bikes in TO at $10 a head. Whoa!!

It may have been different here in TO, but in Ottawa, after selling annual licenses for years, I recall the City deciding they never achieved full compliance and lost money/couldn't justify the expense every year. So they stopped. Much like the cat license thing here.

You'd have to start with a provincial law requiring cyclists to carry and produce ID like driver's licences, or equip a squad of cops with chains and trailers to impound bikes. And the paperwork, even if they jsut issued tickets (See ID above) would be horrendous.

Never gonna happen with our present manpower-challenged police, and setting up a cheaper force would still make that license money disappear real fast. Offices, garages, walkie-talkies, HR people, vehicles, printing and paper, oh yeah and paycheques.

But a provincial ID law would be an excellent start. We'll just hafta figure out what's good ID for 11yera olds.

 

[blackrock13]

It may have been different here in TO, but in Ottawa, after selling annual licenses for years, I recall the City deciding they never achieved full compliance and lost money/couldn't justify the expense every year. So they stopped. Much like the cat license thing here.

You'd have to start with a provincial law requiring cyclists to carry and produce ID like driver's licences, or equip a squad of cops with chains and trailers to impound bikes. And the paperwork, even if they jsut issued tickets (See ID above) would be horrendous.

Never gonna happen with our present manpower-challenged police, and setting up a cheaper force would still make that license money disappear real fast. Offices, garages, walkie-talkies, HR people, vehicles, printing and paper, oh yeah and paycheques.

But a provincial ID law would be an excellent start. We'll just hafta figure out what's good ID for 11yera olds.

Junior Justice League Membership, what the problem? Bazinga!

 

[oldjones]

And no riding in outfits without a pocket to keep it in.

The foolishness of licensing children at play underscores the reality that you don't make a community by enforcement. A community comes from what we give to it in educating each other and communi-cating our commun goals and standards. Teach people—starting with the little ones—that courtesy and consideration pay off; that the rules and laws are just courtesy codified to protect the good from those too stupid and selfish to behave reasonably, and they'll figure out stopping at stop signs themselves, and only need a few moments to understand the gestures for signaling turns.

We won't ever get there by starving the community as the current administration is bent on doing, because we who elected them were too selfish to give.

And on the gravy-train: Doesn't spending $200,000 that we don't have, didn't budgetted and need not spend, qualify as 100% pure gravy-train? Or is doing away with bike-lanes 'gravyless meat and potatoes'? Wouldn't a fiscally responsible and penny-pinching Mayor and Council vote to balance the budget first?

When it's his tutu we're talking about, Mayor PotatoeHead quite obviously doesn't think it's a frill.

PS: How much did Rob spend setting up that Citizen Consultation exercise that was then dismissed as 'statistically invalid' when it found so many respondants would happily pay more taxes? Clearly not just a frill, but a badly designed one at that. With KPMG you can trust you're gonna get the answers you paid for.

Stiil, a stopped gravy-train isn't as frightening as a the image of cutting all Rob's personal foolish frills and leaving him naked like the Emperor in the story. Besides, he's doing that himself.

 

[fuji]

If the bicycle users want to ride on the street then they should be licensed and pay insurance like everyone else on the road.

That's not a city issue. If you want to make a city issue we could talk about having a registration fees for vehicles in the city--how about a $60 registration fee for all cars and bikes?

Whoops.

 

[larry]

when i see quotes from the big fat pig, it looks like he loves spreading red herrings. there is a gravy train. it's called government service. i know, you know, everyone knows. how to stop it? probably not possible. a start would be to implement methods of measuring productivity for various jobs. then publicly post the results for various sub-groups (like police by station, parks workers by park area, you get it). of course, this would be nigh impossible given that the unions would never allow it and the city would have to spend, let's say, a couple hundred million setting it up. things aren't cheap.

today we have a stupid tunnel to the islands when a bridge would allow ped/bike/bus auto traffic. i.e.: everything the tunnel will PLUS MORE! but the islanders would be unhappy. there's gravy there.

i ride downtown a few times a week. the biggest issue i have is with fellow cyclists cutting me off or wandering around the lane. cars don't bother me. except on that poorly designed st clair route where there are lots of pinch points.

 

[oldjones]

Actually the tunnels's the smarter move. That is a channel for boats; land tyraffic isn't the only kind.

 

[sailorsix]

today we have a stupid tunnel to the islands when a bridge would allow ped/bike/bus auto traffic. i.

To go where other than the airport??

There is an east -west runway that goes from the harbour side of the island to the Ontario Place side. There is nowhere to go without crossing a runway.