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The Delhi India rape/murder

nuprin001

Member
Sep 12, 2007
924
1
18
It's one side of the purdah/cloister culture.

Indians aren't prudes by any means. But the rules for sexuality in their culture (in the sense that there's a single culture in India, which obviously there isn't: India is probably more internally diverse than Europe) are simply different. It isn't on the same two dimensional plotline that Western sexual mores are on, so in the super-general sense some things are perfectly acceptable in Indian culture that are completely against Western mores and some things are completely taboo that are totally normal in Western culture. Because of this, some Indians who come to North America will think things are really crazy here, while some of the things they would consider perfectly acceptable are totally crazy to many of us.

The purdah culture means that many Indian men simply aren't around non-relative females very much. This leads to both a lower rape incidence (if you're not around something, you can't do it) but a higher incidence when the opportunity presents itself. There's the story of a ferry in India sinking, and an American (?) woman trying to teach everyone around her how to turn their pants into improvised lifejackets. While they were drowning, the men around her were trying to rape her, because that's the only time they were around a woman with her pants off.

Alone with a woman = rape in many societies. Not because the men are necessarily evil (though they are by our cultural biases), but because if you're alone with a non-relative female you're probably going to get punished as a rapist anyway. So you might as well get it stuck in while you've got the chance.

For people from a culture like that, coming to the West, even a mildly flirty man will seem very, very rapey, especially in public.

Specific to this case, I don't know that many of us here on this board have the cultural background to fully understand it. Yes, we can all agree (and India agrees with us) that this was horrible, but how India reacts to it isn't something that we can really understand. India is all kinds of screwed up, culturally and sociologically speaking, because it's dozens of major and hundreds of minor (simply speaking from the size POV) cultures that have been mashed up and had a patina of English rules thrown on top of them for a couple of hundred years. I think we can all agree that the Native American/First Nations/Aboriginal cultures around the world have been adversely affected by English/American rule. The same thing happened in India, other than the native population not getting mostly wiped out. India had greater depth on their bench (both in numbers and in age and breadth of the history): that's the only real difference between India and America/Canada/Australia.
 

nuprin001

Member
Sep 12, 2007
924
1
18
It's not quite that bad, but from those whoa actually track these things, in india only about 1 in 10 get reported. Yes you can track it by being there listening, watching, and reading (paying attention to what's not written. It's not exact, but there is no reason to believe it's not realistic.
Pretty much, yeah. It's not an exact science by any means, but you can put together a reasonably accurate statistical model that will give you a reasonable idea of how many rapes occur in a given population.

Actuarial science is pretty good. There's a reason why your life/car/home insurance companies return a consistent and reliable profit that doesn't vary too much off their baseline.
 

fun-guy

Executive Senior Member
Jun 29, 2005
7,275
3
38
all over the world women are violently raped and murdered this isnt unique to india. The media is really something else they are making it seem like if your a woman in india you will be raped. You also need to remember they have over a billion people, so theres going to be more rapes vs canada or america
also, she wasnt attacked on a public bus like the media wants you to believe, it was a private bus that just happened to be carrying 6 drunk animals who must have been friends on the hunt for a woman to rape
another thing I gotta say is the guy she was with was a total pussy. if he really cared about her, he would have ended up in the ICU trying to save her life. if I were him id be killing myself bc of the guilt of just watching that happen
they ae making it sound like a woman and her friend walked onto a ttc bus in india and this savge act happened. it was a private vehicle....this makes a big difference. what happened to this woman was extremely rare just like the newtown shooting im just pointing out the medias manipulation of the facts/reality,
she wasnt just raped she was tortured and murdered.
yeah whats he gonna say he did nothing? he didnt even lose consciousness, had he really faught 6 guys who are homicidal maniacs he would have been in much worse shape not giving interviews on tv 2 weeks later in a studio somewhere
women dont look that oppressed in INdia to me, they have been protesting in the street and beating up men there was a story today about some politician who was attacked. this isnt taliban controlled afghanistan
I'm late to the party on this thread, but my lord, these posts have left me breathless.......coupled with his outlandish posts in other threads, especially on gun control, I have to ask, is this person a member of the human race?
 

Ms.FemmeFatale

Behind the camera
Jun 18, 2011
3,125
1
36
www.msfemmefatale.com
I'm late to the party on this thread, but my lord, these posts have left me breathless.......coupled with his outlandish posts in other threads, especially on gun control, I have to ask, is this person a member of the human race?
I think what is worse is that I am not longer shocked by statements such as you quoted. Such is the world of man. Free thought comes with a price and this is it.
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
By the way I recently read that the male victim had a leg broken in the attack.
As MSOG said, what a pussy. He would have done better.

Originally Posted by msog87
another thing I gotta say is the guy she was with was a total pussy. if he really cared about her, he would have ended up in the ICU trying to save her life. if I were him id be killing myself bc of the guilt of just watching that happen
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
84,193
122,368
113
It's one side of the purdah/cloister culture.

Indians aren't prudes by any means. But the rules for sexuality in their culture (in the sense that there's a single culture in India, which obviously there isn't: India is probably more internally diverse than Europe) are simply different. It isn't on the same two dimensional plotline that Western sexual mores are on, so in the super-general sense some things are perfectly acceptable in Indian culture that are completely against Western mores and some things are completely taboo that are totally normal in Western culture. Because of this, some Indians who come to North America will think things are really crazy here, while some of the things they would consider perfectly acceptable are totally crazy to many of us.

The purdah culture means that many Indian men simply aren't around non-relative females very much. This leads to both a lower rape incidence (if you're not around something, you can't do it) but a higher incidence when the opportunity presents itself. There's the story of a ferry in India sinking, and an American (?) woman trying to teach everyone around her how to turn their pants into improvised lifejackets. While they were drowning, the men around her were trying to rape her, because that's the only time they were around a woman with her pants off.

Alone with a woman = rape in many societies. Not because the men are necessarily evil (though they are by our cultural biases), but because if you're alone with a non-relative female you're probably going to get punished as a rapist anyway. So you might as well get it stuck in while you've got the chance.

For people from a culture like that, coming to the West, even a mildly flirty man will seem very, very rapey, especially in public.

Specific to this case, I don't know that many of us here on this board have the cultural background to fully understand it. Yes, we can all agree (and India agrees with us) that this was horrible, but how India reacts to it isn't something that we can really understand. India is all kinds of screwed up, culturally and sociologically speaking, because it's dozens of major and hundreds of minor (simply speaking from the size POV) cultures that have been mashed up and had a patina of English rules thrown on top of them for a couple of hundred years. I think we can all agree that the Native American/First Nations/Aboriginal cultures around the world have been adversely affected by English/American rule. The same thing happened in India, other than the native population not getting mostly wiped out. India had greater depth on their bench (both in numbers and in age and breadth of the history): that's the only real difference between India and America/Canada/Australia.
So how does this all fit in w the defence lawyer spouting off about how the assaulted woman invited her rape and beating? Presumably, he must feel there is a large groundswell of public support for his horse-shit or else he wouldn't be spraying it around. Do Indians actually believe this shit?
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
Some people/men just don't get it. A second bus gang rape has occurred. Doing this at a time when the population is under a looking glass by the world and they do this. Stumpf!

In the report, it was also pointed out that of the average total of 25,000 reported rapes, ~25% of them involved underaged girls. Yup it's the women's fault.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
29,389
7,145
113

Fromspace

New member
Jul 26, 2013
23
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Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
29,389
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Here's more details: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/four-men-sentenced-to-death-in-brutal-india-gang-rape-case-1.1452970

They will apparently all be hanged

Four men sentenced to death in brutal India gang rape case

An Indian court Friday sentenced to death four men for the gang rape and murder of a young New Delhi woman, ordering them to the gallows for a brutal attack that riveted India, where it became a symbol of the rampant mistreatment of women and the government's inability to deal with crime.

Issuing his decision, Judge Yogesh Khanna said the attack "shocked the collective conscience" of India. "In these times, when crime against women is on the rise, the courts cannot turn a blind eye toward such gruesome crimes."

After the death sentence, the wail of one of the four men, 20-year-old Vinay Sharma, filled the tiny courtroom. Sharma, an assistant at a gym, then broke down in sobs.

As Khanna walked from his bench, defence lawyer A.P. Singh, who has defended all four men at various times, began to shout at him: "This is not the victory of truth. But it is the defeat of justice."

Like all death sentences, Khanna's order must be confirmed by India's High Court. The men can appeal their case to the High Court, as well as to the Supreme Court, and ask the president for clemency.

The victim's family, along with numerous politicians and government officials, had long called for the men to be executed. The family was in the courtroom as the sentence was announced, and were relieved at the results. "I am very happy our girl has got justice," said the victim's father, who cannot be named under Indian laws guarding his daughter's identity as a rape victim.

The 23-year-old victim and a male friend -- by all accounts they were not romantically involved -- were coming home last December from an evening showing of the movie "Life of Pi" when the men lured them into boarding a bus they were joy-riding through the city. They quickly beat the friend, held the woman down and took turns raping her. They also penetrated her with a metal rod, causing the injuries that led to her death in a Singapore hospital.

India's Supreme Court has ruled that the death penalty should be used only in "the rarest of rare cases," though what defines those cases remains highly debated. Only two people -- both terrorists -- have been executed in India since 2004.

Under intense pressure, the Congress party-led national government worked hard to project a tough-on-crime image after the attack, reforming a series of laws on sexual violence. Many in the Congress, which faces dwindling support and national elections next year, had made clear they wanted the men to be executed.

Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde, who earlier in the week said death sentences were assured in the case, welcomed the sentence. "The victim and her family have got justice," he told reporters in New Delhi. "The judge has set an example for anti-social elements that they would meet a similar fate if they committed such crimes."

If India's chaotic judicial system is supposed to be independent of politics, Singh, the defence lawyer, saw a political hand in the judge's decision.

"The judge has given the death sentence under political pressure," he said. "The punishment has been given at the government's insistence. "

Many have expressed hope that the case, and the intense media coverage, will help change traditional attitudes that relegate women to subservient roles and contribute to a landscape of sexual harassment and fear. Women learn from girlhood to dress conservatively and avoid going out after dark. They teach themselves to ignore the rampant groping and lewd comments -- locally known as "eve-teasing" -- they encounter in public.

Rapes are regularly blamed on the victims. Many rape victims are shunned by their families, fired from jobs and driven from their home villages. As a result, most rape victims are still thought to remain silent.

"Too often the pressure is on the girls to stay safe. But parents need to take responsibility for their sons," said protester Satvinder Kaur, a 40-year-old mother. "The culture will only change when mothers stop their sons from going out late at night, when they make it clear they will not stand behind them if they do something like this."

Kaur said the sentence sent "a very positive message to the ladies in India that the government is standing behind them."

Faced with the outcry, the government in March created fast-track courts for rape cases, doubled prison terms for rape and criminalized voyeurism, stalking and the trafficking of women.

The dozens of protesters outside the courthouse on Friday, while lauding the sentence, called for swift justice in tens of thousands of rape cases that remain backlogged in Indian courts.

An estimated 100 and 150 people are sentenced to death in India in most years, but the vast majority of those cases are eventually commuted to life in prison.

The defendants, like the rape victim, lived on the bottom rungs of India's booming economy. Nearly all came from families that had moved to New Delhi in recent years from desperately poor rural villages, hoping to find well-paying jobs in the capital. Few had such luck.

One, Mukesh Singh, occasionally drove the bus where the crime occurred and cleaned it. Sharma, the gym assistant, was the only one of the attackers to graduate from high school. Akshay Thakur, 28, occasionally worked as a driver's helper on the bus. Pawan Gupta, 19, worked in a streetside fruit stall.

With them on the bus were two other men. Police say Ram Singh, 33, hanged himself in prison, though his family insists he was killed. Another man -- an 18-year-old who was a juvenile at the time of the attack and cannot be identified under Indian law -- was convicted in August and will serve the maximum sentence he faced, three years in a reform home.

The young woman, though, was trying to escape the economic mire she had been born into. Her father supported five people -- his wife, the woman and two younger sons -- on a little over $200 a month working as an airport baggage handler.

But while women remain second-class citizens in most Indian families, expected to stay home and care for their parents and then their husbands, her parents and brothers had supported her as she worked for an education, even breaking with tradition by helping her leave her home for a time to study physiotherapy.

At the time of the attack, she was awaiting exam results for a physiotherapy degree. The results came after her death. She had passed
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
This case hit a nerve and although the death penalty is rarely used in India, this could be one event they could sell tickets to.
 
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