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The long struggle over the meaning of "genocide"

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,630
7,076
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Stop pushing that antisemitic trope that its 'antisemitic' to be against genocide.
Only 40% of US Jews identify as zionists.
Stop trying to tar them all as supporting genocide.
Well you are the master of antisemitic tropes.

How's your claim of JFK being assassinated by a Jewish conspiracy going?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
99,941
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Unlikely. He has a well established pattern of basing his conclusions solely on who's being blamed and not on the law or the group quoting that law.
Nonsense.

Its you that refuses to accept that Israel should obey the law or that Palestinians should have basic human rights.
You argue for apartheid and Israeli exceptionalism over the application of the law.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
99,941
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But you have a long history of denying Hamas is a terror group.
'terror group'.

This is where its clear that you are using the term to cover all Palestinians, as if they are part of a 'terror group'.
Its not about the act of terrorism, of those who have committed the war crime of targeting civilians, its about what entire race can you declare are part of a 'terror group.

That's very clear.
You use the word based on race.

That is the only way you can justify killing 16,000 children, by arguing they are part of a 'terror group'.
What you refuse to admit is that by joining the UN blacklist for nations that kill children, Israeli actions look like terrorism, the targeting of civilian children.

You will argue that the definition of terrorism doesn't apply, but it will be because of race.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,934
11,818
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Toronto
Shazi, I will repeat myself again.
Hamas committed some war crimes on Oct 7, they should be taken to court of those allegations. Israel has committed way more war crimes before Oct 7 and since, they should also be taken to court over those war crimes.
I will repeat myself again. The HR report discussed nothin at all other than Hamas' crimes against humanity on Oct.7. Israel's actions on other dates are not germane to HRW's statement. What are your opinions re:
October 7 Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes by Hamas-led Groups | Human Rights Watch (hrw.org)
October 7 Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes by Hamas-led Groups
Armed Groups Holding Hostages Should Free Them Immediately

Jerusalem) – Hamas’ military wing – the Qassam Brigades – and at least four other Palestinian armed groups committed numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity against civilians during the October 7, 2023 assault on southern Israel, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. Governments with influence over the armed groups should press for the urgent release of civilian hostages, an ongoing war crime, and for those responsible to be brought to justice.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
99,941
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I will repeat myself again. The HR report

Shazi, I will repeat myself again.

You will ignore and then lie about what I said.

Its time for me to copy and paste this response for every time you bring up HRW.

Hamas committed some war crimes on Oct 7, they should be taken to court of those allegations. Israel has committed way more war crimes before Oct 7 and since, they should also be taken to court over those war crimes.

Treat Hamas and Israel equally before the law, charge them for all crimes based on HRW, Amnesty and other reports.

Just as Palestinians should be treated equally as long as they are under Israeli rule, full citizenship and full voting rights.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,934
11,818
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Toronto
You are arguing that Israel isn't democratic
I've repeatedly argued that one of the reasons that the US supports Israel is not because of lobby groups but because Israel's democracy reflects that of the US' more than any other country in the region.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
99,941
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I've repeatedly argued that one of the reasons that the US supports Israel is not because of lobby groups but because Israel's democracy reflects that of the US' more than any other country in the region.
Bullshit, Shazi.
You keep arguing that Israel is a 'Jewish' state, that it doesn't represent 'Israeli Arabs', just the Jewish population.
That's not a democracy.

You can't be apartheid and democratic.
You can't be genociding your indigenous population and declare you are democratic.

 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
10,356
10,378
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No. My position is "No Israelis? No money. No weapons. No troops. You're on your own."
Let’s humor this for a moment and try to imagine what would actually happen.
if israel could not stop Islamist militants without foreign help and start collapsing, what would transpire? Would millions of Israelis try to relocate to the West? Would they be accepted or rejected and genocided?
I’m not saying any of you should actually give a shit (although I believe a sane person should), I’m just curious how do you see this play out
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
36,686
72,954
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I've read it.
I've also read your points and the reason you posted it is more clear than you think.
😆
Oh, this should be fun.

I think you want a discussion about how charges of genocide are somehow meaningless because of Lemkin's frustration with the definition and laws that were passed.
:cool:
Yup! I was right.
That was fun.

Ah, you're back to this claim that votes were promised and its just mean or punishment to choose to vote for someone else or not at all.
Back to your very first criticism and argument.
No.
I'm pointing out that this group is explicit about what they are doing electorally.
1724526209965.png .

1724526278271.png

Note the language.
They are quite clear about their goals.
I respect that clarity.

If you want to spend your time whining that's it not really genocide because Lemkin wanted changes to the law
😆
It gets funnier and funnier.

or that those voters are being mean
Jesus it is a comedy routine now.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
36,686
72,954
113
'The proper definition'.

There are issues with all laws, courts and how they are implemented and interpreted. None are perfect or 'the proper definition'.
There are major issues with the ICJ and the ICC as well with the UN, just as there are even bigger issues with US democracy and its legal system.
But its what we've got and we need to work with it.
And yet you seem to object to the article.

That's not what this discussion is about. You haven't raised any specific issues with the law or the definition, you just posted this article to try to lay the ground that the UN definition isn't the 'proper definition' so its ok to support the Israeli genocide because you'll find a reason that makes it not fit whatever you think really is the 'proper definition'.
What an insane take on things you have.

You'll declare its therefore 'pragmatic' and that everyone should not withhold their votes as its mean to punish politicians for being corrupt, backing murder or even the not properly defined 'genocide'.
I am glad you are at least admitting this is about punishment now.
You denied that for a long time.

I expect you won't respond to this post or declare that I don't understand or something rather than respond directly.
That you don't understand lots of things is a given.
It's just kind of baked into the conversation.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
99,941
27,190
113
😆
Oh, this should be fun.



:cool:
Yup! I was right.
That was fun.



No.
I'm pointing out that this group is explicit about what they are doing electorally.
View attachment 353488 .

View attachment 353489

Note the language.
They are quite clear about their goals.
I respect that clarity.



😆
It gets funnier and funnier.



Jesus it is a comedy routine now.
There you go.
Its saturday and its 'laugh along with the genocide day' with valcazar.

You couldn't have confirmed everything I posted more clearly.
 
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Reactions: Valcazar

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
99,941
27,190
113
And yet you seem to object to the article.
What an insane take on things you have.
I am glad you are at least admitting this is about punishment now.
You denied that for a long time.
That you don't understand lots of things is a given.
It's just kind of baked into the conversation.
There is no content in this post.
Just a declaration that you were right.
This happens every time you get nailed, you try to pull a skoob and declare the conversation silly or irrelevant.

All that does is confirm my claim, you didn't post that article to discuss the law or Lemkin's goals and frustrations.
You posted that article to try to belittle the upcoming charges of genocide.

 
Last edited:
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