Third win for Mayor Ford!

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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To put it in perspective how about this. It was money that was already budgeted for. So to make it up It may cost us:

One third of what it will cost to fix the Gardiner.
Three quarters of what the TTC said it wants to request for streetcar expansion.

And you try in some fashion to blame the Mayor?

Incredibly Myopic.
 

groggy

Banned
Mar 21, 2011
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To put it in perspective how about this. It was money that was already budgeted for. So to make it up It may cost us:

One third of what it will cost to fix the Gardiner.
Three quarters of what the TTC said it wants to request for streetcar expansion.

And you try in some fashion to blame the Mayor?

Incredibly Myopic.
Incredibly hypocritical.

Ford campaign's on financial prudence, but gets upset when other levels of government do the same thing.
Despite his own bragging about running a surplus (suggesting the city can afford it) and the provincial government running a deficit.

He's only interested in his own image, not what taxpayers are really paying.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,993
6,730
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Incredibly hypocritical.

Ford campaign's on financial prudence, but gets upset when other levels of government do the same thing.
Despite his own bragging about running a surplus (suggesting the city can afford it) and the provincial government running a deficit.

He's only interested in his own image, not what taxpayers are really paying.
My point wasn't about the cut. It was about people attempting to put this on the Mayor. The Liberals didn't think twice about 600 million for the gas plants...and with kill 150 in community housing. And all the usual suspects like OCAP are saying nothing. So when The Mayor says fine and starts closing down and selling unused property will you and the other detractors give him a pass on it?

Personally I'd like to reduce the portfolio to a more managable level. Obviously the city can't handle what it has.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
11,117
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There would be hell to pay had the Harper government made the cut...

Funny thing is, a year or so ago Tommy-Boy refused a $300,000 hand-out from the Feds to help poor kids. The usual suspects were all over him screaming for Ford to save the poor folk and get his fair share of some Federal pie. Now that the Wynn government is taking $150 million of provincial pie away from the poor folks, the usual suspects are trying to turn this into a "Ford Fucked Up" issue.

I get the feeling had Ford not been the mayor and the Liberals pulled this move, the entire city and all Toronto media would be all over the Liberals for this act.

As much as the media and the lefties hate Ford, don't let that way of thinking cloud your judgement in reference to supporting what is best for the city.

The Liberal government is spending the province into a big deep hole - In under a decade we are now throwing away 5 billion a year on extra debt charges. That's a lot of money being spent due to ten years of bad decisions and poor fiscal management.

Feelings of Ford aside, shame on you Toronto for letting the Liberals screw you over!
so... you support the cut then.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
32,993
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so... you support the cut then.
Its mot a cut if we have to make it up. Just a transfer of cost.

Now if we are going to say sell off unused property over the next three years to reduce our commitment then I'm all for it. Gain the property tax and the land transfer tax out of it too!

So would you support the cut then...if it was a real one.....
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,015
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So you're giving the good ol "If you don't like it, get the fuck out"
Typically shit thinking.
I love it here, but could make it even better by getting rid of our characiture of a mayor.
No, many have tried but nobody has been successful in getting rid of our Mayor to date. I can't see you being happy with anyone other than a David Miller (tax and spend/bend over to every union/special interest group) type Mayor which is why I suggested you move. Our next Mayor isn't going to be like that either and you'll hate them just the same. Only difference is that they probably won't be a "fat fuck" so you'll have to resort to other childish name-calling.

I would add that killing the 2 billion dollar daycare program(oops sorry all day kindergarden) would go a much longer way to achieving some sort of fiscal responsibility.
Yeah... But I want to know how much these babysitters will make a year, because that's all they are. Please include sick days, benefits, pensions etc. I imagine they'll get the summer off too!
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
11,117
3,332
113
Its mot a cut if we have to make it up. Just a transfer of cost.

Now if we are going to say sell off unused property over the next three years to reduce our commitment then I'm all for it. Gain the property tax and the land transfer tax out of it too!

So would you support the cut then...if it was a real one.....
It is not a cut of an an ongoing transfer, it is a curtailing of a temporary gift which was started in 2008 to partially compensate for downloading instituted by your hero, Mike Harris. But now Ontario has begun uploading some of the welfare costs from the cities, which leaves Toronto with a net gain in transfers. Yet the Ford brothers continue to whine...is the math too complicated, Rob?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,464
12
38
If the Liberals hadn't wasted Billions of dollars on moving the gas plants, Ornge and eHealth this would be a non issue. I get it, punish Toronto for Liberal scandals, waste and mismanagement.
So the wrong gas plants should have been built in the wrong place? Let's see, If that had cost McG the election, it'd now be Premier Andrea or Premier Tim and both of them promised they'd cancel the plants after the election. When the penalty clauses and buyouts would be even more expensive. You dragged this dead horse in; explain how whacking the rotten thing makes more money magically appear like Ford's Gravy. That money is gone.

There's only one taxpayer, and you can only spend a buck once. The Province is in massive deficit, while Toronto's books are balanced—partly because Ontario has given a whack of cash to Toronto and partly because the Province has said, "we'll take some expensive stuff onto our books". So tell us again how we're more likely to find loose cash at Queen's Park than at 100 Queen West where Rob has repeatedly said his gravy-finding isn't finished yet.

We'll leave his tax hike, and the land Transfer Tax he claimed he didn't need outta the discussion. But if Rob only spoke truth, then that tax—which he's keeping to cover the cost of gravy he hasn't yet found and eliminated—is quite enough to cover what he wants from the Province. If Rob just kept those promises, he'd have the money and a whole huge whack of new votes besides.

Meantime Magic Provincial money that doesn't come outta my pocket and yours is as mythical as Ford's Magic Gravy.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
30,301
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113
John Tory said he might run for mayor in the next election
He's very centre-right.

If he wants to win he should run on Ford's "stop the gravy train" message
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,015
3,070
113
So the wrong gas plants should have been built in the wrong place? Let's see, If that had cost McG the election, it'd now be Premier Andrea or Premier Tim and both of them promised they'd cancel the plants after the election. When the penalty clauses and buyouts would be even more expensive. You dragged this dead horse in; explain how whacking the rotten thing makes more money magically appear like Ford's Gravy. That money is gone.
The fact remains, it was McG who moved the plants. Andrea and Tim may have promised to cancel the plants but unless you have a crystal ball there's no way of knowing they'd actually do it. Not like a politician hasn't ever broken a promise. You simply can't be sure they would have done it.

The Province is in massive deficit
And why? Because they haven't got spending under control and wasted billions of dollars. Power plants aside, you've still got the Ornge and eHealth debacles.

Meantime Magic Provincial money that doesn't come outta my pocket and yours is as mythical as Ford's Magic Gravy.
If you believe there's no waste in the provincial government, you're delusional.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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He's very centre-right.

If he wants to win he should run on Ford's "stop the gravy train" message
The problem for the right at this point is how to convince Ford to step aside so a credible person can run on that platform without the vote getting split.

Leaving aside his outrageous drug addiction, the mayor has not made progress on any major file since his first year in office. I will say again that I care less about whether we have a mayor who implements right wing or left wing solutions, than that we have a mayor who implements solutions. We have big problems. They need solutions. While we like to glorify the differences, the reality is that left and right aren't THAT different from one another here. We need to get in someone who can get the job done, one way or the other.

Solve the transit issues. Solve the waterfront issues. Deal with the fallout of the massive development that is underway. Stuff needs doing!
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,015
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Leaving aside his outrageous drug addiction, the mayor has not made progress on any major file since his first year in office.
I agree the sideshow makes for juicy headlines but while that's going on, his accomplishments never get mentioned.

Remember the Harvard educated David Miller? Under him, city expenditures shot up by 39% in just seven years. Just to note, by not raising the city’s annual operating budget 6% this year, Ford has saved more than half a billion dollars without drastically cutting services. And some say there's no gravy to be found.

Here's a quote detailing some of Ford's has accomplishments. So yes, he has made progress.

While the entire city has been distracted by the giant blowhard on the screen, the man behind the curtain has accomplished some impressive wizardry. On the labour file, Ford pulled off a previously inconceivable trifecta: he got the city’s largest union locals to sign collective agreements on his terms and outsourced waste collection west of Yonge—all while avoiding any work stoppages. Compare that record with that of David Miller, under whose watch the union’s ranks and paycheques swelled and they still saw fit to wage a strike action that left the city reeking in its own filth.

Labour costs were the main reason that, during Miller’s seven years at the helm, the city’s annual operating budget grew by roughly six per cent per year. Only two years into Ford’s tenure, expenditures have essentially flatlined, from $9.405 billion last year to $9.432 billion this year. Ford’s detractors like to say he promised to stop the gravy, then found none. It turned out that the gravy didn’t flow in rushing brown-water rapids, but in trickles through every crack in the organization. Ford has spackled many of them shut. For example, he eliminated a “running lunch” program—code for a 30-minute paid lunch—in the vehicle maintenance department, which will save the city $391,000. He merged the shop that makes road signs with Transportation Services (why were they ever apart?), saving $110,000. At Fairview Library, an automated book sorter will save $160,000. It all adds up.

The entire budget process has been opened up for the better. Torontonians learned back on November 29 that their annual tax bill would rise by 1.95 per cent (later revised to two per cent), but the real story that day wasn't the size of the increase. It was the timing of the announcement. During Miller’s tenure, the annual tax increase, along with every other detail of the municipal budget, was kept under wraps until February. It’s a crucial difference in management style. Miller waited so he would know exactly how much money he had left over from the previous year. Ford doesn't want to know, because he believes not knowing will force the city to spend more cautiously.

So far, he’s been right. The city no longer needs to use its own prior-year surplus to balance next year’s budget. The 2012 surplus chimed in at $232 million, and instead of desperately shovelling it down the hole of the 2013 shortfall, council used it to increase funding for arts organizations and other programs.

Council also earmarked more than $100 million of the surplus to kickstart repairs to the Gardiner Expressway. Were it not for the Ford administration’s sound budget practices, we’d be paying for the Gardiner by delaying repairs to other things. Back in November, Olivia Chow, the MP for Trinity-Spadina, called upon Ottawa to pick up part of the expressway’s repair bill. Does anyone really want a return to the days when the city cried poor and begged others for money? We tried that for more than a decade, and all we have to show for it is decrepit infrastructure. In fiscal matters at least, Rob Ford has given Toronto its self-respect back.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,464
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I agree the sideshow makes for juicy headlines but while that's going on, his accomplishments never get mentioned.

Remember the Harvard educated David Miller? Under him, city expenditures shot up by 39% in just seven years. Just to note, by not raising the city’s annual operating budget 6% this year, Ford has saved more than half a billion dollars without drastically cutting services. And some say there's no gravy to be found.

Here's a quote detailing some of Ford's has accomplishments. So yes, he has made progress.
And the 'quote' that you'd like us to be impressed by is from…?

It cites, without detail, a bit over half a million dollars of so-called savings, and calls a budget that increased by 27 million 'flatlined'. Definitely makes me want to know who's math works that way.

"It turned out that the gravy didn’t flow in rushing brown-water rapids, but in trickles through every crack in the organization" is cute phrasing, but it misrepresents Ford's repeated claim that the gravy did flow in torrents, knee-deep and higher, which is how he was gonna cut no services (promise broken) and repeal Miller's two taxes (promise broken, now he's only studying maybe a 10% cut, cause without that tax, the brown torrents would be the shit his bombastic claims have landed him in) Point is, it was our Mayor who misjudged and misrepresented that gravy torrent. It was the Mayor who hired KPMG, who told him it just wasn't there, and never was, for all the trickles that are part of any huge operation.

So let's have that basic supporting detail please: Who's the author polishing this turd?
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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I agree the sideshow makes for juicy headlines but while that's going on, his accomplishments never get mentioned.

Remember the Harvard educated David Miller? Under him, city expenditures shot up by 39% in just seven years. Just to note, by not raising the city's annual operating budget 6% this year, Ford has saved more than half a billion dollars without drastically cutting services. And some say there's no gravy to be found.

Here's a quote detailing some of Ford's has accomplishments. So yes, he has made progress.
Smoke and mirrors. The only reason the operating budget hasn't grown is the province stopped increasing the money it gives to Toronto.

The net operating budget, the money spent AND raised by the city, grew by the same amount under Ford as under Miller.

In any case no progress on the critical transit file where Ford promised subways. Looks like he was lying about that and actually never intended to build them.
 
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