tire rotation is a rip off....

[poorboy]

As a matter of fact, rotating your tires is (or can be) dangerous.

Here's why. After a period of service, the left front tire has bedded itself into the particular suspension alignment foibles of your left front suspension/wheel. If you now put the left front tire on the right, now, that tire does not "sit properly" on the road, and it remains so until it beds in and wears itself in to the foibles of the right front wheel.

Once the tire is bedded in, its contact patch will be more or less in the middle of where the suspension engineers designed it to be. But during the bedding-in period, the contact patch can be displaced as much as an inch to the side of where it was designed to be. (Of course, you get no sign that this is happening.)
If you now have a problem (e.g a slippery road) the chances of the car skidding into a spin are considerably increased.

So, never rotate your tires. If your left and right fronts wear at different rates, don't swap the tires over -- get your alignment checked. If you do swap, you'll be more likely (for a few weeks) to skid on a slippery road.

Another benefit of not rotating your tires (i.e not rotating them front to rear) is that, on most cars, the fronts wear faster than the rears. So you just buy one pair of new tires.
Of course, as everyone knows, if you just buy one pair of new tires, you put them on the back. Whatever your make and model of car, you always put your new pair of tires on the back.

Buying just one pair of new tires (and putting them on the back) evens out the dollar expenditure on new tires over the years, plus it helps ensure that, if you get into tire-skid conditions, it's the fronts that break free first, not the rears. A rear-wheel skid (where the rears break free first) is ten times more likely to put you in the path of the oncoming truck than a front-wheel skid.

Terrible advice.


Does not take into account manufacturers change compounds, and that the tire degrades from UV and ozone with age. Running one set of brand new tires that have more grip and an older set that has less grip is not ideal. The front brakes do 70% of the braking, yet you think it's a great idea putting the tires with the lower coefficient of friction up front, increasing your stopping distance. There's a thing called ABS that come on modern cars that mitigates tires from skidding, so the probability of locking the rears is very low. Having a car that has the same coefficient of friction on all 4 corners makes more sense than having a different coefficient of friction at the front and rear unless the car was designed to run different sized front and rear tires. Left and right fronts wear at different rates for various reasons. Most front drive cars do not have a limited slip differential, so the single tire that drives the car wears a bit faster than the other.

What happens if the manufacturer discontinues the size or entire series of tire because a new design comes out? BF Goodrich has been using the Radial TA name for several decades. Do you think a Radial TA from 5 years ago is the same as a new one? What do you do with your two tires with 7/32nds of tread? Mismatch pair? Finally, very few shops rotate from side to side like you are suggesting since a fair number of tires are unidirectional. Pedestrian tires like the Michelin Hydroedge are an example. Front to back is what they do for cars with the same size front and rears.

It will also cost you an arm and a leg to match the tires on your car if it is brand new. Manufacturers request a specific compound for the tire, which will be different than a replacement tire. New factory tires for GM have a TPC code for the make and model of car the tire has been designed for. BMW uses a star, Mercedes uses Mo and Porsche uses N. Replacement tires using the same name and tread pattern do not have a code and are a compromise compound designed to work for a wide variety of cars.

Nitrogen is only necessary if tires experience extreme temperatures, such as airliners and military jets that go from minus 56 to high temperatures on touchdown or in high performance racing cars like NASCAR or Indy.

 

[Mazzi]

If you take.your car to canadia tire for service you alread lost

whys that?

Their prices are fair, their quality of work is quite good (yes may be a bit shop dependent but goto a higher volume shop or talk to the tech and mechanic), and they service just about every car out there.

so whats the gripe?

 

[HEYHEY]

whys that?

Their prices are fair, their quality of work is quite good (yes may be a bit shop dependent but goto a higher volume shop or talk to the tech and mechanic), and they service just about every car out there.

so whats the gripe?

The prices aren't good, they're inflated. The wait is insane and the people working on your car are clueless kids just working on getting their license.

 

[HEYHEY]

Terrible advice.


Does not take into account manufacturers change compounds, and that the tire degrades from UV and ozone with age. Running one set of brand new tires that have more grip and an older set that has less grip is not ideal. The front brakes do 70% of the braking, yet you think it's a great idea putting the tires with the lower coefficient of friction up front, increasing your stopping distance. There's a thing called ABS that come on modern cars that mitigates tires from skidding, so the probability of locking the rears is very low. Having a car that has the same coefficient of friction on all 4 corners makes more sense than having a different coefficient of friction at the front and rear unless the car was designed to run different sized front and rear tires. Left and right fronts wear at different rates for various reasons. Most front drive cars do not have a limited slip differential, so the single tire that drives the car wears a bit faster than the other.

What happens if the manufacturer discontinues the size or entire series of tire because a new design comes out? BF Goodrich has been using the Radial TA name for several decades. Do you think a Radial TA from 5 years ago is the same as a new one? What do you do with your two tires with 7/32nds of tread? Mismatch pair? Finally, very few shops rotate from side to side like you are suggesting since a fair number of tires are unidirectional. Pedestrian tires like the Michelin Hydroedge are an example. Front to back is what they do for cars with the same size front and rears.

It will also cost you an arm and a leg to match the tires on your car if it is brand new. Manufacturers request a specific compound for the tire, which will be different than a replacement tire. New factory tires for GM have a TPC code for the make and model of car the tire has been designed for. BMW uses a star, Mercedes uses Mo and Porsche uses N. Replacement tires using the same name and tread pattern do not have a code and are a compromise compound designed to work for a wide variety of cars.

Nitrogen is only necessary if tires experience extreme temperatures, such as airliners and military jets that go from minus 56 to high temperatures on touchdown or in high performance racing cars like NASCAR or Indy.

Exactly, also all wheel drive systems will have a field day with replacing one axle at a time

 

[Indiana]

My tires get rotated every time I drive.

 

[GameBoy27]

Terrible advice.

I have to agree, buttercup's tire rotation advice is simply wrong. Provided all four wheels/tires are the same size, there's absolutely nothing wrong with swapping them front to back. Do not rotate them side to side.

The prices aren't good, they're inflated. The wait is insane and the people working on your car are clueless kids just working on getting their license.

Canadian Tire auto service in a nutshell. ^^^

 

[OnTheWayOut]

The prices aren't good, they're inflated. The wait is insane and the people working on your car are clueless kids just working on getting their license.

Bingo. Every time I got tires at CT I had to go back at least once to get them balanced properly. And their prices suck, they charge at least twice as much for installation/balance over Costco. Road hazard and/or nitrogen are yet another upcharge. CT is my last choice to take my car for anything. Terrible service every time I've tried them.

 

[essguy_]

Many modern tires are directional, so you would not rotate left to right. As a previous poster stated - the swap from winters to summer is a perfect time to rotate - simply mark or ask for the tires to be marked for rotation (i.e. mark the wheels with where they should be re-installed). I'm very particular about wheels and tires, so store mine in my garage and swap myself. It's not just the money saved - it's the knowledge that I've torqued the bolts properly (a lot of shops just get them on quickly using an impact wrench) - also after swapping you should re-torque your wheel bolts after a few hundred Kms anyway. I've seen horrible service at some shops. Eg: I ran over a nail and had no choice but to go to Canadian Tire (on Laird) to get it fixed. Got home and noticed that they had re-installed the tire on backwards (i.e. had ignored the rotation markings). Further, it wasn't balanced properly. I took it to my regular tire shop to get fixed. Re: Balancing - get your wheels load force balanced if you can - far superior to static balancing.

Lastly - the advice to not rotate tires is terrible advice. Saying that at tire gets embedded to a particular suspension's "foibles" is like correcting one mistake with another. IF your car is properly aligned, then your tires will wear more or less evenly - so don't let suspension "foibles" prevent you from rotating. Also - depending upon whether your car is FWD, RWD, or AWD then the tires will be doing different amounts of work when you drive - totally independent of suspension "foibles". Eg: In a FWD car the front wheels are doing the steering as well as the pulling. Most FWD cars tend to push in corners - so the front tires will wear more than the rears simply from the different cornering forces (slip angles) between the front and rear wheels. So rotating front to back is simply good practice.

 

[JaimeWolf]

The prices aren't good, they're inflated. The wait is insane and the people working on your car are clueless kids just working on getting their license.

The licensed mechanics at CT are often just as clueless, but they have more ego:

• With my car, they tried lifting it on its plastic sideskirts instead of the proper lifting points on the pinch weld.
• When installing new tires on old wheels, the mechanic charged extra to wirewheel the bead area.
• I took my coilovers to CT to get the spring swapped out because my nearest indie shop was backlogged the whole day. The cocky mechanic tried to unscrew the nitrogen reservoir endcap thinking it was the strut mount. Thankfully the endcap was tight. Otherwise it would have punched a hole in his head.

The parts at CT are often bottom of the barrel as well. Go on Rock Auto, find some part for your vehicle, usually there are 6-7 manufacturers. The cheapest brands tend to be resold by CT.

 

[smiley1437]

FWIW, BMW does not recommend rotating tires in their owners manual.

Whether you trust their engineers (or not) is up to you. Maybe this only applies to BMW's cars.

Anyway's here's the excerpt, emphasis mine:


Tire rotation
Between the axles
The tread wear patterns at the front end
differ from those at the rear – the actual
patterns will vary according to individ-
ual driving conditions. In the interests of
safety and maintaining optimal handling
characteristics, tire rotation is not rec-
ommended.

If a proposed interaxle rotation of tires
is based on economic considerations,
one should consider whether the costs
for the rotation are likely to be recap-
tured by any increase in the service life
of the tires that might be realized. In
principle, interaxle rotation should be
performed in short intervals, with a
maximum of 3,000 miles (5,000 km).
Consult your BMW center for more
information.

Should you decide to rotate the tires, it
is essential to comply with the following:
Rotate tires on the same side only, since
braking characteristics and road grip
could otherwise be adversely affected.
Following rotation, the tire inflation
pressure should always be corrected.

 

[Fathammer]

I had a good laugh on some of the posts and cant believe some people like CT.

I run my own shop with high tech training and experience of over 20 years.

CT techs and employees enjoy profit sharing. Every time a tech tells you that you need brakes, you can count on the pads, rotors, calipers, any hardware and possibly a brake fluid flush to be done because it MAKES THEM HUGE MONEY!!!!!

You can also bet on them selling you a battery, starter and alternator for a NO START condition as well.

CROOKS!!

Secondly, nitrogen has no benefit over compressed air other than the pressure fluctuations in the winter (minimal) and its a little lighter compared to air from a compressor. If you think your saving fuel, its almost non existent. No benefit unless its a race car.

Rotation....when the the front tires look more worn over the rears, rotate them if you wish to get a bit more wear life and time between tire purchases.

Maintenance schedule....its a vague interval. Some people tow trailers, some not. A transmission flush for someone pulling a trailer is way earlier compared to someone who doesnt.

Its a suggestion at best. Usually your tech will explain and show you what you might require. A trustworthy tech will tell you if you need service of any kind or not and why.

NEVER GO INTO A SHOP TELLING THEM YOU NEED SOMETHING DONE!!!! Its a ticket to steal from you because you asked him to. Tell the tech your concern and have them diagnose it.
I had many people come in telling me they need brakes. After asking why and diagnosing it myself, I found it usually is something else causing the issue.

If you dont know if you have a good mechanic or not, REVIEWS of their shop are usually found on the web. READ THEM!!

 

[GameBoy27]

Excellent advice Fathammer! ^^^

 

[westwoody was]

Kal Tire is as bad as Canadian Tire.
I had a flat on my way to work. Could see a KT a few blocks ahead. Told the guy I was late for work, picked out a tire, the mechanic says okay, come back in 45 minutes.
I come back and my car is untouched.
Ask the guy and the bullshitting starts..."I looked at your air cleaner..."
He had time to look at my air cleaner but not fix my flat. Fucking slimy piece of shit.

 

[JaimeWolf]

FWIW, BMW does not recommend rotating tires in their owners manual.

Whether you trust their engineers (or not) is up to you. Maybe this only applies to BMW's cars.

Anyway's here's the excerpt, emphasis mine:


Tire rotation
Between the axles
The tread wear patterns at the front end
differ from those at the rear – the actual
patterns will vary according to individ-
ual driving conditions. In the interests of
safety and maintaining optimal handling
characteristics, tire rotation is not rec-
ommended.

:der: Treadwear patterns at the front end differing from the rear is the precise reason why tire rotation is necessary - to even out the tire wear and maximize the tire's service life. Then again why would you expect BMW engineers to know what they are talking about? BMWs burn so much oil, they designed a genuine-BMW pouch to carry an extra bottle of oil in the trunk. The kit also includes plastic gloves and hand wipes so you can jack off safely in your BMW.

 

[JaimeWolf]

^You are one of the lucky ones not to burn much oil. Of course the newer models don't come with dipsticks...

And the book interval is 24,000 km because BMW's testing showed the sludge buildup won't kill the engine within the warranty period. :evil:

 

[checks]

^Nitrogen right? Nitrous is the stuff where you press a steering wheel button and snap your head back to pretend you're in a Fast & Furious movie.

And that's just the shop trying to recoup its investment in the nitrogen filling equipment. Of course it's a waste of money for cars to bring the fill from 79% nitrogen (i.e. normal air) to ~95% nitrogen...

Its more to do with the fact that the compressed air they normally use is full of moisture, while nitrogen from a cylinder is dry. That moisture can condense in the heat and freeze in the cold, which is what causes pressure fluctuations in the tires. But really, it doesn't stay consistently cold here in the winter. If I lived in Thunder Bay or NWT or something, I'd probably do it.

 

[Occasionally]

Easy solution.

If possible, never take your car to the dealership. They will charge you a minimum of 50% more than any other shop.

What you get is a bunch of mechanics familiar with your car and brand, but as long as you get good mechanics elsewhere it doesn't nee to be the dealership. But they charge big money because they know people will bring it to them.

You'd think the place selling you a car would be the cheapest, but it's the opposite.

Dealerships also take a lot longer to fix because their focus is selling cars, not fixing them. Auto shops are faster as they want the line up of cars needing fixing moving out the door.

 

[Occasionally]

Reading up on some posts from page 2, if your tires are getting worn, make sure your alignment is fixed first. Bad alignment and premature tire wear go together.

 

[ogibowt]

this has been an interesting read.........I must confess, I have never rotated tires in my almost 50 years of driving......have never taken my car for servicing at a dealership ever....but I religiously have an oil change every 6000kn...............I guess im just a lucky driver who had his share of the usual maintenance issues but nothing major or stressful or major issues with tires

 

[Occasionally]

this has been an interesting read.........I must confess, I have never rotated tires in my almost 50 years of driving......have never taken my car for servicing at a dealership ever....but I religiously have an oil change every 6000kn...............I guess im just a lucky driver who had his share of the usual maintenance issues but nothing major or stressful or major issues with tires

Personally, I think a lot of the car maintenance stuff is trash and a money grab. Maybe if someone drives a lot or in harsh conditions, but for normal driving (like driving in the GTA all my life), out of every car I've had. HOWEVER, the longest I've had a car is 7 years, so maybe that's the reason. But even that 7 year old car was fine.

- I have never bought new tires except one time when I had a flat. I actually plugged with some black stuff for $20 at some back alley shop and it drove fine! But I decided to get a new tire for $200 for ease of mind
- Always had all season tires
- I did an alignment fix once because I hit a major fucking pothole at a strip mall and immediately noticed the car drifting slightly
- I have rotated tires once. Not because I felt like I needed to, but some reason I just felt like doing it..... I guess all those times the mechanics upsells you, at some point the mind just gives in!
- I do oil changes about 2,000 km past the recommended km
- Never done an engine flush or any of those maintenance packages that are $300+
- Never changed brake pads

And never had an issues with any car I've had. And I've driven anything from low end Civics to a mid sized Impala (which turned out to have awful ratings and reviews), and recently nicer higher end cars.