Trump wants to make a deal with China. Here’s how he’s trying to make that happen.

Ceiling Cat

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For every "marvel" that China builds, there are many examples of Tofu dreg that they hide.
Is that from pre-2000? There is poverty in America and the UK. and Canada.



 

40micmic

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Nov 12, 2014
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Do you seriously believe Trump's tariff policy would ultimately benefit the
Chinese more than the U.S.? I cannot predict where the trade war will be going
a year from now. But so far the more likely outcomes look to me to be:

i) It is going to cause people of the U.S. more pain.
ii) Trump's arrogance and ignorance will give China more leverage.
iii) Trump will be the one left humiliated in the end, not Xi.
iv) Trump and his party are more likely to lose big time in the
midterm election than Xi and his party are to be eliminated.
v) The trade war will piss off U.S. allies more than bringing them together to
gang up on China.

It seems the trade war may not be a bad thing for the CCP
in power after all.
I think the Chinese would benefit more if they had the ability to rise up and create a massive revolution against the CCP to overthrow that tyrannical government. This may happen if more and more governments stand up to Beijing instead of kowtowing to them and allowing them to break rules over and over again.

As it stands right now, China's economy is in very bad shape and is only getting worse with the tariffs. While we have historically been able to endure and "eat bitterness" in the past, times are drastically different. Imagine a pensioner earning $1.5/USD per day now having their pensions cut even more because local governments are subsidizing factories to help keep them afloat and need to cut what little social programs China already has. Add to that the pensioner is the largest growing demographic within China and it is only getting worse. There used to be 15 workers/retiree but that number is accelerating to 2 workers/retirees. On the flipside of that demographic, China has a youth unemployment crisis at over 20+% (probably severely understated since China stopped reporting these numbers.) Deflation is becoming a massive concern and as a result consumer confidence is dwindling.

Politically, Xi seems to be losing its grip on the military with several recent purges of his top military generals and loyalists. Elites, within the Shanghai faction are reported to be incredibly displeased with the state of the economy. Several reports of democratic banners being hung at highway overpasses in places like Chengdu. Increased military presence in major cities like Shanghai and Beijing may be an indication of Xi preparing for civil unrest and hoping to quash and censor it before it spreads.

Add this all together and I hope we have the will to stand up to Xi and the CCP and fight for change. But you could be right, maybe this blows over and CCPs censorship and propaganda machine is able to quell these headwinds and in the end all of the above that you have stated is true. We will see.
 

40micmic

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Is that from pre-2000?



Well the Qiqihar disaster where the school gym collapsed that killed an entire middle school volleyball team was in August 2023.

The train station that is featured was actually flooded in August 2023 and was supposed to be China's futuristic railway system.

So no, not pre-2000 - it just looks like that. Here are more examples:


There is poverty in America and the UK. and Canada.
Last time i check half the population within any of these countries weren't in poverty. What a dumb comparison. It is crazy how you cherry pick arguments, videos, etc to fit your narratives. Just like the Hainan incident posted in your previous comments and their admission into the WTO as a result. Incredibly dishonest of you.
 

Ceiling Cat

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A couple of important facts you left out about this. The U.S. was not the only country to oppose China's entry into the WTO initially. Several EU nations as well as Japan wanted China to engage in trade reforms to ensure fair market practices. The initial agreement with China and the US was in 1999 which paved the way for China to officially join the WTO in Dec 11 of 2001.
China has been breaking the rules of the WTO since Dec. 12, 2001.
Facts matter and you should probably stop leaving out pertinent info to try to twist it to your narrative.

Multiple countries had concerns about China's entry into the WTO, the fact remains that the United States played a pivotal role in facilitating that membership. The 1999 U.S.-China bilateral agreement was the key that unlocked the door, setting the stage for China's accession in 2001. Once that deal was made, other countries followed suit. What gave China the upper hand in negotiating a deal 10 times better was the Hainan incident. America wanted it to go away fast. it was old news a month later. USA/ China in the back rooms not only gave WTO status to China, but with most favored nation status.
So, whether other nations initially opposed or raised concerns is ultimately irrelevant to the core issue: the U.S. chose to grant China Most Favored Nation status and supported its WTO membership, fully aware of the implications. That decision was made despite concerns about compliance, and now the consequences are being debated. If China has broken the rules since day one, as you claim, then that raises questions about the wisdom of the decision, not about who raised concerns before the deal was made. In the end, the U.S. went forward, and that’s the decision that matters most. Facts do matter, and the most relevant fact here is that the U.S. allowed it to happen. In the years that followed, I would argue that the low cost goods that came from China enriched the lives of people around the world.


There are reports that the Chinese government is bailing out some factories to help them endure the tariffs.
What if they are looking out for the best interest of their citizens, the government of Canada announced that they plan to help any sector effected by trump tariffs.

Last time i check half the population within any of these countries weren't in poverty. What a dumb comparison. It is crazy how you cherry pick arguments, videos, etc to fit your narratives. Just like the Hainan incident posted in your previous comments and their admission into the WTO as a result. Incredibly dishonest of you.
The poor do not live in poverty, and they are not starving. They live a simple lifestyle that existed for hundreds of years. They are simple farmers living far outside the city. The young people come into the cities to work. The older folks do not have the skills to to anything else except farm. This sort of lifestyle existed in America, Canada and Europe pre 1970, 1960, 1950 and before WWII. I have spoken to older folks from Saskatchewan, New Brunswick and Newfoundland that were born into this lifestyle where they had little growing up. The farmers choose to live outside the city. This rural lifestyle existed in my home Province of Quebec. In the 1950s and 1960s. Many Quebecois farmers came into the cities to have a better life.

I guess I feel we need to tackle the root of the problem. Trump’s tariffs are simply a reaction to the problem.

You might be the only person left who truly believes that. Trump has consistently shown that his primary concern is himself, not the country, not its people, and certainly not the global community. He’s willing to disrupt international relationships, economies, and even democratic norms if it serves his personal agenda. In a time when the world is still recovering from the effects of a devastating pandemic, recklessly shaking up the global economy is not leadership, it’s dangerous and irresponsible.
He has shown disregard for the rule of law again and again. Will he refuse to leave office when his presidency ends, as he did the last time? What’s even more alarming is that Trump appears to be rallying his MAGA base in hopes of creating enough chaos to avoid accountability for his civil and criminal liabilities. It’s a transparent power play, not a plan for national progress.
 
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40micmic

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2014
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Multiple countries had concerns about China's entry into the WTO, the fact remains that the United States played a pivotal role in facilitating that membership. The 1999 U.S.-China bilateral agreement was the key that unlocked the door, setting the stage for China's accession in 2001. Once that deal was made, other countries followed suit. What gave China the upper hand in negotiating a deal 10 times better was the Hainan incident. America wanted it to go away fast. it was old news a month later. USA/ China in the back rooms not only gave WTO status to China, but with most favored nation status.
So, whether other nations initially opposed or raised concerns is ultimately irrelevant to the core issue: the U.S. chose to grant China Most Favored Nation status and supported its WTO membership, fully aware of the implications. That decision was made despite concerns about compliance, and now the consequences are being debated. If China has broken the rules since day one, as you claim, then that raises questions about the wisdom of the decision, not about who raised concerns before the deal was made. In the end, the U.S. went forward, and that’s the decision that matters most. Facts do matter, and the most relevant fact here is that the U.S. allowed it to happen. In the years that followed, I would argue that the low cost goods that came from China enriched the lives of people around the world.
What are you talking about? Half of what you wrote here is nowhere to remotely being true. The Hainan incident may have strained negotiations between the U.S. and China after the bilateral agreement in 1999 but the terms were not altered. China did not gain any sort of upper hand. The Most Favoured Nation status was negotiated back in 2000 and approved by Congress already, well before the Hainan incident. I have no idea where you get your "facts" or how you came to the conclusion about China getting a deal that was 10x better.

Again, the CCP made several promises in order to join the WTO. They agreed to many things including increased transparency, have safeguards against IP, reduce trade barriers and open its markets, etc. Perhaps the WTO should not have had too much faith in the CCP to keep their word. Again the CCP says one thing, but does the exact opposite. I guess that is the lesson in all of this. It is hard too argue against all the evidence that the CCP has not broken its promises it first made when joining the WTO. It is a deceitful, corrupt government and it has revealed itself over and over again.
 

40micmic

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2014
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The poor do not live in poverty, and they are not starving. They live a simple lifestyle that existed for hundreds of years. They are simple farmers living far outside the city. The young people come into the cities to work. The older folks do not have the skills to to anything else except farm.
All I can is...🤦‍♂️
 

40micmic

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2014
490
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63
You might be the only person left who truly believes that. Trump has consistently shown that his primary concern is himself, not the country, not its people, and certainly not the global community. He’s willing to disrupt international relationships, economies, and even democratic norms if it serves his personal agenda. In a time when the world is still recovering from the effects of a devastating pandemic, recklessly shaking up the global economy is not leadership, it’s dangerous and irresponsible.
He has shown disregard for the rule of law again and again. Will he refuse to leave office when his presidency ends, as he did the last time? What’s even more alarming is that Trump appears to be rallying his MAGA base in hopes of creating enough chaos to avoid accountability for his civil and criminal liabilities. It’s a transparent power play, not a plan for national progress.
Can you honestly say with a straight face that the actions of the CCP does not warrant some sort of harsh and severe response.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Lol. I hope this is true. POS elon shouldve learned his lesson. He is a complete CCP shill.

Although if this law does go into effect, it likely kills the entire Chinese domestic EV industry from BYD, Nio, Li, X Peng and Xiaomi. Im almost certain they will not enforce this.
They can pass whoever they want with those fire regulations.
That's way cleaner than the political grandstanding of a tariff.
 

40micmic

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Nov 12, 2014
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They can pass whoever they want with those fire regulations.
That's way cleaner than the political grandstanding of a tariff.
Personally I think this a great law for China. Safety standards within their EVs and batteries are atrocious. The jury is still out on how they enforce it much like many of their laws, i.e. VPNs laws (which was also coincidentally passed by the MIIT), their national security laws or their "spreading rumours and picking quarrels" law. Will the battery safety law only apply to Tesla and not BYD? Similar to VPN laws apply to Uyghurs but not Eileen Gu?

And just out of curiousity, if you were the leader of the free world aka the President of the US, how would you bring the CCP to negotiation table? What tools would you use to try to get China to abide by WTO rules?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Personally I think this a great law for China. Safety standards within their EVs and batteries are atrocious. The jury is still out on how they enforce it much like many of their laws, i.e. VPNs laws (which was also coincidentally passed by the MIIT), their national security laws or their "spreading rumours and picking quarrels" law. Will the battery safety law only apply to Tesla and not BYD? Similar to VPN laws apply to Uyghurs but not Eileen Gu?

And just out of curiousity, if you were the leader of the free world aka the President of the US, how would you bring the CCP to negotiation table? What tools would you use to try to get China to abide by WTO rules?
I back a rules based order, so trade deals and human rights deals.
If the US really wanted to be a pain to China they'd send out union organizers.
 

40micmic

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Nov 12, 2014
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I back a rules based order, so trade deals and human rights deals.
If the US really wanted to be a pain to China they'd send out union organizers.
China doesn't let their companies, i.e. BABA, TME, PDD listed on the NASDAQ or NYSE to be audited by accredited firms.
They also don't seem to really take too kindly to firms who do DD on chinese companies to see if they are suitable for foreign investment (you can look up Mintz group for reference who wanted to check out factories in Xinjiang)
You think the CCP is going to let in foreign union organizers?
Do you feel China has been operating under the rules based order and preserving human rights? If the answer is Yes, then i think there is plenty of evidence that may change your mind. If the answer is no, what are the punishments you would levy on China to try to get them to comply?
 

Vinson

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He said a few days ago that he was going to make a very good deal with China.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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China doesn't let their companies, i.e. BABA, TME, PDD listed on the NASDAQ or NYSE to be audited by accredited firms.
They also don't seem to really take too kindly to firms who do DD on chinese companies to see if they are suitable for foreign investment (you can look up Mintz group for reference who wanted to check out factories in Xinjiang)
You think the CCP is going to let in foreign union organizers?
Do you feel China has been operating under the rules based order and preserving human rights? If the answer is Yes, then i think there is plenty of evidence that may change your mind. If the answer is no, what are the punishments you would levy on China to try to get them to comply?
Of course they haven't, neither has the US. They've been attacking unions themselves for a long time so until that changes they could never try this.
And really, health care and some social services are now better than in the US.

Really, China is likely just as corrupt as the US. So the US can't really do anything as its not only corrupt but incompetently lead.
The tariffs are stupid and China holds too much US debt to be worried by american actions.

More likely that when all this blows up on trump there will be some kind of resistance, though likely it'll lead to even worse leadership.
The US really has no hope of winning this battle ecomically.
 

40micmic

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2014
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Of course they haven't, neither has the US. They've been attacking unions themselves for a long time so until that changes they could never try this.
And really, health care and some social services are now better than in the US.

Really, China is likely just as corrupt as the US. So the US can't really do anything as its not only corrupt but incompetently lead.
The tariffs are stupid and China holds too much US debt to be worried by american actions.

More likely that when all this blows up on trump there will be some kind of resistance, though likely it'll lead to even worse leadership.
The US really has no hope of winning this battle ecomically.
Sure - but let's take Trump out of the equation.

How would you combat this situation with China? What are the punishments you would levy on China to try to get them to comply and adhere to the rules based order and human rights that you value?

If the US has no hope of winning this battle economically, would you just cede to China and give them a better deal in the hopes that they don't crush you?
 
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