Ukraine updates

[krealtarron]

You are very naive.

You refuse to see that Russia and China are both expansionist powers, which you say you are against with NATO. Then you support both Russian and Chinese expansionist goals in Ukraine and Taiwan over the wills of the people who live there. You claimed to be libertarian socialist but instead you're just an anti-western supporter of empires built through war.

Defending the war on Ukraine because you claim it is a proxy war is pyscopath rationale, where you argue that Ukrainian deaths and destruction aren't even worth considering, only whether this will hurt NATO and the US. In your post you appear to express concern about Russian losses but not so much about Ukrainian ones.

Then you claim you are for negotiations knowing full well that Putin would never negotiate to return what he has under his control.

As you said, Russia started this war.
They made the choice, they are to blame.
As you also made the choice to support empire building through wars of aggression.

I am not for expansionism of any kind. But Russia is not remotely comparable to the expansionism of the United States. Russia has had internal conflicts and has meddled in other countries affairs sure, but those are not in discussion right now. We in this thread are talking about Ukraine. But for the record those things are also condemnable. So put a lid on that, and keep the discussion to Ukraine and this particular conflict. Heck even Putin has said that anyone trying to recreate the USSR is a moron. So there goes your expansionism theory.

China is objectively not expansionist, atleast not after 1962. As far as Taiwan is concerned I do believe in the One China policy. But it is not like China is invading Taiwan right now.

You seem hell bent on being purposefully dishonest about misinterpreting my words EVEN after I said that I am AGAINST war. Even in my previous post where I said that the war needs to end ASAP you claim I am defending the war. Where am I defending it? You also claim I only talked about Russian losses when I explicitly said in several of my posts that it is a tragedy for both sides. No. What is psychopathic is to wage a proxy war against Russia, using the poor Ukrainians, and to dishonestly and hypocritically egg the war on while PRETENDING TO CARE about Ukrainian freedoms. If you are so concerned about Ukraine, then why not be open to compromise the way I am proposing? That is the realistic way the war is going to end anyway. So why not? Because you are fundamentally ideologically driven into war mongering and you think this is going to end with Russian downfall of some sort. It is not. Remember Russian downfall will come with dire consequences for Ukraine if at all it were to happen. Or may be the entire world, who the fuck knows.

Yes Russia started this invasion. But you also need to examine WHY. The WHY is the most important. And it is clear why. NATO EXPANSIONISM AND AMERICAN IMPERIALISM. Those 2 things are clear and present dangers to any country whose policies are positioned in opposition to the US.

 

[Frankfooter]

China is objectively not expansionist, atleast not after 1962. As far as Taiwan is concerned I do believe in the One China policy. But it is not like China is invading Taiwan right now.

Chinese military excersises a couple of days ago.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644876721504636931

 

[Frankfooter]

What is psychopathic is to wage a proxy war against Russia, using the poor Ukrainians, and to dishonestly and hypocritically egg the war on while PRETENDING TO CARE about Ukrainian freedoms. If you are so concerned about Ukraine, then why not be open to compromise the way I am proposing? That is the realistic way the war is going to end anyway. So why not? Because you are fundamentally ideologically driven into war mongering and you think this is going to end with Russian downfall of some sort. It is not. Remember Russian downfall will come with dire consequences for Ukraine if at all it were to happen. Or may be the entire world, who the fuck knows.

Yes Russia started this invasion. But you also need to examine WHY. The WHY is the most important. And it is clear why. NATO EXPANSIONISM AND AMERICAN IMPERIALISM. Those 2 things are clear and present dangers to any country whose policies are positioned in opposition to the US.

Russia started this proxy war, not the US.
Russia is responsible for all the deaths.

NATO expansionism was never a direct threat to Russia. The only threat was that as NATO Russia would no longer be able to invade. So Putin invaded while he could.

Your arguments about a ceasefire are incredibly naive, you give no believable rationale on why Putin would stop a war you say he's winning and give back all the land he took and presently holds. Why would he do that?
Why should Ukraine agree to give up 1/5 of their country, an area with some of the most productive land in the country?
Why?

 

[krealtarron]

Chinese military excersises a couple of days ago.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1644876721504636931

So what? Every country does military exercises. Are you sure the US is not there provoking China to have these drills?

 

[krealtarron]

Russia started this proxy war, not the US.
Russia is responsible for all the deaths.

NATO expansionism was never a direct threat to Russia. The only threat was that as NATO Russia would no longer be able to invade. So Putin invaded while he could.

Your arguments about a ceasefire are incredibly naive, you give no believable rationale on why Putin would stop a war you say he's winning and give back all the land he took and presently holds. Why would he do that?
Why should Ukraine agree to give up 1/5 of their country, an area with some of the most productive land in the country?
Why?

No proxy wars are fought by one country against another, using a 3rd party. Russia is not using a 3rd party but are involved themselves. The US on the other hand is using Ukraine as the 3rd party to fight Russia. So the only one engaged in a proxy war right now is the US/NATO against Russia using Ukraine. There is no debate about this and your attempt to try and spin this is fucking hilarious because you picked up on something Val brought up and now you are desperately holding on to it like the unoriginal idiot that you are.

I did not claim Russia is winning. What I did claim is that the war is ongoing and will go on for a lot longer if negotiations are not started immediately. The Russians themselves have said that they are open to negotiations provided it does not result in American hegemony. That is completely understandable and should be talked through during the negotiations. Russia will surely be open to negotiations as it is in their best interests to end the war ASAP given their losses as well. It is a naive and idiotic position to argue that they wont be open to negotiations based on your faulty premises of Russia being a defacto invader of everything they see and that they are led by a mad man. This sort of demonization of an enemy might work well for propaganda, but it is utter nonsense.

Oh and also, I explicitly stated that I propose giving back Donbas to Ukraine. So not sure why you bring up Ukraine having to agree on giving up 20% of their land. Whether that will happen though is up in the air. I am not the deciding authority. I can only state what I think should happen. And even if Ukraine were to lose Donbas, I think it is a price worth paying to stop the loss of life and destruction that will otherwise occur. What is more important? The lives of the people who live in Ukraine or the land?

All in all if the war does not end, I can tell you Ukraine will SURELY not win. That is a stupid pipe dream. Russia will keep throwing bodies and equipment at the war and the west will limit what they give. This will only end badly for Ukraine.

 

[krealtarron]

 

[NotADcotor]

I am not obligated to answer your dumb questions, you Putin cock sucking bitch. LMAO.

A bit like George Tekei or Scott Thompson calling someone a flaming faggot.

 

[NotADcotor]

I am the only one calling for an end to the war. So go ahead, keep spewing bullshit about how fighting to the second last Ukrainian (Zelensky wont fight), is you standing for peace and how calling an end to war and immediate negotiations is being a "war monger". You idiots live in an upside down world, dont you?

You are only calling for an end to the war because things look bleak for Russia and Poutine.
A bit like claiming the Japanese were standing for peace because they were interested in negotiating a deal and totally ignoring the 3 all campaign, comfort women, the rape of Nanjing, Unit 731 etc. But but they were calling for negotiations and an end of the war but but.
Speaking of upside down world...

Or do you think Poutine should withdraw from Ukraine and give compensation for the damages they did.... ah. didn't think so.

 

[NotADcotor]

YOUR views are horrific. The only ones who are supporting the killing of Ukrainians and Russians for that matter are people like you. You dont want an end to the war. You are much rather happier for the war to go on till the entirety of Ukraine is possibly wiped out.

Not that you care, but you are flat out lying. Everyone wants an end to the war, everyone would be quite happy if Poutine pulled out. However suggesting people don't want and end of the war because they don't think Poutine should have his aggression rewarded is beyond stupid. We learned how that sort of craven attitude works out about 85 years ago. You can want peace and still be willing to stand up for what is right ya mook.

Also they way it is looking, it isn't the Ukraine that is going to be wiped out, the previous mobilization the Russians had to in some cases resort of giving out rusted out rilfes, and now they are shipping T-54/55s to the front. The US has about 3000 M1A2 tanks in storage [and unlike stuff sitting in the field and or getting ripped off for anything sellable, the Americans actually do maintain their stored equipment] plus plenty of other gear.

So Neville Chamberlain, stop your lying about people.

Also buddy's question wasn't meant to be intelligent, it was a simple getting to know you question, or getting you to admit the truth. Before the war, would you have picked war or negotiation. That you are absolutely unwilling to answer tells me 2 things, at least you are not lie [well about yourself] and 2: All this talk about peace is complete bullshit.
Also interesting that your counter question is either drive to Moscow or negotiate. As if the option of clearing Russians out of Ukraine isn't an option. Notice his question had basically the only two options avalable, right or don't fight, 1 or 0, do or don't do. Your war option precluded a lot of different military options. Funny how you call everyone else stupid and can't see the stupid within.


Your commentary on this thread is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 

[NotADcotor]

6 months under siege and still standing proud and unconquered.

View attachment 225227

Even if Bakmhut falls this week and it may, or may not, it's still a loss for Russia. That level of performance is just sad. Brusilov and Zhukov must be rolling in their graves sharing Jackie Chan "Y U no" memes.
Hell even Evert and those tards who fucked up the advance into Prussia in 1914 must be face palming.

 

[NotADcotor]

Ask the Indians.

So Ukraine should cave in because muh peace but when it comes to India, fuck them, they should fight or not fight?

Right... Sadly I know you will call me an idiot and a warmonger and be totally unable to see the double standard here.

 

[NotADcotor]

Of course I am dead against any of our tax payer money being spent in a war that has nothing to do with us,

- Ukraine also has a right to exist. But you have a situation where Ukraine's sovereignty is threatened because Russian security is threatened.

Yeah much like when that Hitler wanted parts of Czechoslovakia, it had nothing to do with Britain and France right. I am sure that worked out well. No concept of history or reality.
Collective security is a thing. We should have told Poutine fuck off before the war started and back when it did start we should have gone full potato with the training and military supplies and pumping up production of military gear.
If we did that before the war started, it never would have happened.

As for your second point, anyone who thinks that having even Ukraine in NATO would threaten Russian security is a paranoid delusional person. Or is just trolling.

 

[NotADcotor]

Oh and you are pissed off because I post videos from the Hindustan Times or other sources that talk about Russian successes when everyone here post successes from the Ukrainian perspective. So you dont even want to SEE anything that is a Russian success even though it is reality. Absolutely laughable.

Every pro Ukraine source I see on youtube, at least the ones that talk about maps and shit, not just war porn channels [which I don't bother with] show all the losses and reverses.

Also if you are going to post a music video, post the original and not some lame cover.

 

[NotADcotor]

No. I would have Ukraine and Russia stop fighting. And agree to the following.

- That Russia give back Donbas.
- That Russia keep Crimea (that is not going to be given back one way or another)
- That Ukraine stay militarily neutral, but free to be more "western oriented" in terms of economy etc., There would obviously need to be security guarantees for both Ukraine and Russia.

Do you think that point one would ever in a million years happen without western aid to Ukraine. I mean seriously. For fucks sakes. Your proposal makes absolutely no sense unless Russia is losing and without western aid there is no way they would be losing.

This is how I know that your claims of being pro peace are basically double standard bullshit.

 

[NotADcotor]

Wait. We have polar bears? I thought it was the Russians that had them.

But our bears are willing and eager to get into a fight, the euro bears just sit in the corner.

 

[NotADcotor]

I see where this is going. If this goes where you want it to, Russia will be destroyed and the west will be gloriously successful.

The only way Russia will be destroyed is by internal breakdown and as you said about India defending itself from China, that's on them, not on the Ukraine. Ukraine is not going to be sending tanks into Moscow.

 

[Frankfooter]

Do you think that point one would ever in a million years happen without western aid to Ukraine. I mean seriously. For fucks sakes. Your proposal makes absolutely no sense unless Russia is losing and without western aid there is no way they would be losing.

This is how I know that your claims of being pro peace are basically double standard bullshit.

Excellent point.

Lots of posts about the Pentagon leaked documents, looks like Bellingcat found the originals and first postings as well as noted the poorly edited versions also floating around. Apparently they were posted on a minecraft discord server originally. There are also very poorly edited Russian copies that I'm sure kreal will say are the real ones.

From Discord to 4chan: The Improbable Journey of a US Intelligence Leak - bellingcat

A recent leak of sensitive US intelligence documents leads to stranger corners of the internet than initially thought.

www.bellingcat.com

Both sides are running low on everything. Russia is using 75 year old tanks, trading food for ammunition with North Korea and reportedly trying to deal with Egypt for more rockets. Ukraine has perhaps enough for a post mud offensive but risks support tiring from western allies.

Putin now has a challenger in Prigozhin, wonder if Wagner will take over.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1645590966353502208

 

[krealtarron]

 

[krealtarron]

 

[krealtarron]