Underaged girl allegedly pimped

[S.C. Joe]

How do you know that they dont already do that SC Joe? I know a few agencies have actually taken girls they suspect of being under aged directly to the police because they feared for the girl's safety.

Well I seen in the Toronto Star paper that she got busted by the police for underage drinking--guess her fake ID wasn't good enough to fool the police--and then she asked the police for help.

So in this case the agency did not checked out their employee too well, IMO.

 

[Aloha511]

Easy to spot a fake ID, the agency should be at fault as well, after all sheik, there are only 10 provinces.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Do you seriously think they call the cops every time a girl applies to work with them to check on their ID?


Use your head SC Joe and think next time before you shoot your mouth off.

If the agency was guilty, they would've been charged and they were not which tells me that they did the best they could.

Uh, yeah...over in Windsor Canada all escorts need a license to work as an escort. The local police are involved in the back ground check of all the girls no matter how old.

Just because a company worker was not charged with a crime doesn't mean they didn't do the best job they COULD have to check the ID out. Maybe they did only what was required by law. Maybe a new law is need to prevent more young girls from being felling victim.

I wounder if TODAY, if a 17 year old showed up looking for work with the same type of fake ID, would she still slip by. If so, then something more should be done to protect not only the girls but the clients as well. When a grown man is paying top rate for an escort, he trust that shes of age and her mental health have been checked out and shes fine for the job.

 

[mandrill]

I agree with Sheik that if the ID was professional quality, there's likely nothing to give it away as fake to the agency. I'm guessing that the cops ran a computer check on the ID# and spotted it as fake that way.

We don't know enough about the situation to guess is the agency was careless or not. The additional info would include stuff like:
1. Did the pimp accompany the girl to the agency office and hover around while she was signed up?
2. Did the girl look young or naive?
3. Did the girl seem to understand what she was getting into?
4. Did the girl seem upset or uncomfortable when she took semi-nude photos or went on calls?

Etc.

As it is, the agency wasn't charged and this info may well not have been adduced at trial as the agency was not on trial.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Maybe the national IDs need to be improved to make them harder to make fake copies. I know the USA since 9/11 have been trying to work with the states to make their ID's tamper proof.

When it comes to money, theres all sorts of safe guards printed on the bills that can be look at to see if the moneys real. Maybe the ID's need the same safety measures.

So maybe its a national problem that the ID's are too easily changed.

 

[fuji]

Anyone know how common GOOD fake ID is? I would think it's relatively hard to get, but I don't really know. I mean a credible looking Canadian driver's license with security features, etc.

An escort agency should be held to quiet a high standard here as they are the ONLY ones who can very the escort's age. Customers cannot ask to see ID, they rely 100% on the agency to check.

Therefore the agency's check should be pretty damn thorough.

 

[Aloha511]

I hope the agency does not get into trouble because I'm sure they don't wake up in the morning wanting to sell off underage girls, however she was probably using a fake ID from one of those store at Yonge/Gerrard, they have pretty good ID over there, holograms & all

 

[S.C. Joe]

Well Joe, your justice poster boy is now convicted.

LOL!

You missed post 25, I posted he was found guilty on 9 of 11 counts. He faces a min. of 5 years--should be more, we see what he gets.

 

[S.C. Joe]

But theres good fair "pimps" who treat the ladies fair and don't force them to work by saying they burn down their family home or beat up the ladies brother if she quits.

Then there are those bad apples who give this hobby a bad rap.

I not sure about number 2, in this case it was her word against his, I think the agency was just trick in to hiring her. Not sure what the police needed from the agency to convict this low life guy.

If many underage girls are trying to get hired, then maybe the police should start to screen their ID's. As for privacy, thats why the police should do it-for a fee-and just confirm the ladies age and nothing more. Anything that can be easily be done to stop underage girls from working in the SP business should be done.

As Sheik has said, its very hard to tell by looking at the girls how old they really are, so there should be a better way for the agency to check out their ID's.

 

[LancsLad]

What about they tie the guy to a bumper and take him for a scrape over to Dinsdale's..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

 

[Aloha511]

But theres good fair "pimps" who treat the ladies fair and don't force them to work

Just like Mike?

 

[mandrill]

A FEW examples;
1. Officer in charge knows that there is a lack of evidence with no prospect of conviction, i.e proof directly against the agency owner / operator.

2. The person is co-operating a part of an arrangement with the police i.e. a rat - most likely scenario.

3. The investigation is on-going charges may be laid later.

4. TPS policy of not charging agencies unless approved by the division commander and its not worth the headaches for the OIC unless it is exceptional circumstances and media attention.

5. and just to keep you happy, yes, they may be innocent, because of course, organized agencies which are the pimps that support this board could not possibly have any knowledge or involvement in criminal activity - just like the Hell's Angels is merely a men's social club.

Gotta agree with this. The charge is "avails" under Criminal Code s. 212. Police have to prove KNOWLEDGE by the person collecting the girl's fee that she is committing sexual acts for pay. The girl could testify directly that the convicted pimp KNEW that she was having sex for pay and scooped her $. The proof re Cachet knowing that she was actually having sex may have been less convincing. Or maybe the cops are biding their time. Or maybe they don't care enough what Cachet knows or does to take them down.

Lack of charges doesn't mean anyone is "innocent".

 

[LingerieLVR]

Why was the other thread about this removed? The one with Toronto Star article...

 

[Aloha511]

things get removed here all the time, at least 10 threads/day

 

[S.C. Joe]

1 thread per topic is enough, keeps the site neat and people don't have to respond twice.

No--wasn't saying Mike--who ever that is--is a good "pimp". Somebody just posted that the agency's are "pimps" too, so I responded that if thats the case, theres good "pimps" too.

Why do some try to put words in my mouth I know I am not the best writer but seems like some really stretch what I post but maybe I just don't make myself too clear.

 

[fuji]

Here's the issue:

While the police may have a tough row to hoe in proving criminal culpability for the agency, a customer caught having sex with an underage escort provides the police and prosecution with a pretty easy target.

The criminal code specifically says this:

It is not a defence to a charge under section 153, 159, 170, 171 or 172 or subsection 212(2) or (4) that the accused believed that the complainant was eighteen years of age or more at the time the offence is alleged to have been committed unless the accused took all reasonable steps to ascertain the age of the complainant.

Section 153 for example could easily be brought against a customer who had sex for money (ie: exploitative relationship) with a 17 year old, and I doubt that a judge would consider "the agency told me she was 18" to be "all reasoanble steps to ascertain the age" of the escort.

Since no escort is going to show her ID to a customer, customers entirely depend on the agencies to check very, very thoroughly, and at the end of the day it is the customer, and not the agency, against whom the police have the easier, surer case, if it comes down to that.

Colour me worried that Cachet did not catch this. They may not be criminally culpable but customers themselves ought to demand better of the business. Hence my question, how good was this fake ID? How young did the girl look? Were there any things that Cachet could have done TO PROTECT CUSTOMERS?

It's not just about keeping their own asses out of jail here, this is also about providing a safe and legal experience for customers too.

Perhaps we should all be demanding an account from various agencies on what measures they take to ensure that the girls are of legal age, and in particular, what is Cachet going to be doing to make sure this doesn't happen again?

 

[S.C. Joe]

Good point Fuji but you forgot about the other victim here--that young 17 year old girl...she was hurt not only by that low life guy that she first called her boyfriend but also by the escort company--even thou the escort company meant her no harm and broke no current laws--they were the ones booking the dates for her. Maybe her low life boy friend still would have found dates for her but maybe not.

Some high class hotels in Toronto are very very nice. Guys paying $300 an hour might be staying at the Four Season hotel. So when she walked in the hotel, she felt like a million bucks. Same with the Gentlemen she might have seen, they may have had a $500 suit on when they open the door, a $100 bottle of fine wine, etc. If her low life boyfriend would have found her dates at the TravelLodge motel with some guy wearing $15 blue jeans, she may have not hopped in the sack with them. But because the high class escort company broke no laws they are off the hook--legally.

 

[fuji]

Good point Fuji but you forgot about the other victim here--that young 17 year old girl...

I didn't forget. I just was focussing on a different issue. Absolutely she is the biggest victim here. I am just pointing out that customers have selfish reasons for wanting to know whether agencies check ID properly.

But because the high class escort company broke no laws they are off the hook--legally.

They likely DID break the law, but much harder to prove that they did, hence no charges. The criminal code also specifies that the agency cannot use as a defense that they did not know she was 18. They are required to take "all reasonable" steps to check that she is 18.

However much harder to prove that they knew she was engaging in prostitution than with a customer.

Maybe her fake ID really was so good that it would have fooled anyone, but I honestly have never seen a fake ID that good. They are rarer than people think. Usually fake ID's pass themselves off as drivers licenses etc. from far away and if someone youngish shows up in Toronto with a New Mexico drivers license (esp if also no New Mexico accent) I think any reasonable person should become suspicious.

 

[rama putri]

Everybody should get a fair trail--no matter WHAT the charge. Not everybody arrested by the police are guilty.

Duh. No kidding. But, here's the thing, the vast majority are. Especially more true with MODERN police work.

Why can't people understand that

Why can't you understand that people DO understand that. Get the chip off your shoulder and maybe you'll see that.

 

[rama putri]

If it was down in Mexico the defense might say the girl got hit by a car and then the car took off.

Yeah, I've always looked up to the Mexican justice system.