We Spoke to Independent Sex Workers About How They Screen Clients

[yoker6]

Forget him. What's this I'm reading about a psycho on the board stalking the indys? What is wrong with these people!

 

[peter4025]

There are many, we just don't know all as the bad things that happen I this industry are usually kept hidden.

 

[yoker6]

Malika, what are you requirements?

 

[yoker6]

Nevermind, thank you.

 

[Eddie401]

Not sure why people are losing their shit over this. SPs have the right to take whatever steps they want to ensure their safety. Hard Stop.

Clients have the right to conduct a transaction in a manner that is within their comfort zone. Hard Stop.

Where there is a conflic between these rights there is no transaction between the parties. No shortage of willing parties of either sex to keep things moving.

Arguing about this is as silly as arguing about rates. Ultimately the market will decide.

 

[Titalian]

I guess thank you for the half compliment?
My safety as a human being , and you know not wanting to be kill! (Please link article where the client got kill over the escort)is more important that you not wanting to give me more than a burner phone handle.
Again, as I said earlier, my screening is not the most "heavy" in this industry.
I host from a private location, your references or board handle that I am screening are sometime the only references I get.
Think about that girl that got fucking murder last week in Hamilton. Yall aren't "nice guys" sadly.
This is why we want to know more about you! not just 416-555-5555 burner appp

Don't get me wrong Malika, I understand your concerns when booking a new client. If its of any consolation, if I were to book a provider
from this board you would probably hear from me through PM to which you would have access to many references. I would also leave you
my number and real first name. But the truth is many providers in this industry are not aware of review boards so giving out a handle as reference
is futile.

 

[oil&gas]

... if I were to book a provider
from this board you would probably hear from me through PM to which you would have access to many references. I would also leave you
my number and real first name.

Not to say the provider is not trustworthy, but putting her
in a position where she can disclose your personal info to other
people seems to be an indiscreet act. Would you want a lady
you've reviewed to be pestered by her clients interested in
your identity however slim the chance is?

 

[Muddy]

Perfect, Chloe — the piece needed to be redone; Lisbeth showed me this a day or two ago. Now we need Toronto Life to do perfect interviews with upscale sexworkers with stories to tell, the ones who CHOSE their profession, manage it well, enjoy their work and don't run into difficulties because they're smart and aware. Will that happen? Doubt it — horror stories get more readers!

 

[Chloë.]

Perfect, Chloe — the piece needed to be redone; Lisbeth showed me this a day or two ago. Now we need Toronto Life to do perfect interviews with upscale sexworkers with stories to tell, the ones who CHOSE their profession, manage it well, enjoy their work and don't run into difficulties because they're smart and aware. Will that happen? Doubt it — horror stories get more readers!

Sad but so very, very true! This was true tabloid style.

 

[Ridgeman08]

Every once in awhile, a thread like this gets some attention in the lounge... whats the big deal.

A provider has every right to screen however she chooses, and we have the privilege to see her based on that screening process, or the right to move on if we don`t agree to it.

We also have EVERY right, (especially in this post C-36 era), to protect our true identities, and should!

There is NO WAY, I am giving out ANY information that will somehow compromise my anonymity to any SP when we first meet. Like someone said in another thread (I think it was the `vacation`thread...), and I have experienced it first hand as well, some SP`s have the potential (especially one you are meeting for the first time) to be `bat-shit`crazy, so its best to keep your anonymity intact, and NEVER give out too much information about yourself. I am no longer married, so I don`t have to worry about a spouse, but I do have 3 wonderful children, and a professional career to protect, so there`s no way I`ll compromise that. I have no issue with giving references, on my `hobby persona`, TERB handle, hobby e-mail etc., but none of that will lead to my true identity. Ridgeman08 is a fictitious persona, and exists in the realm of this hobby alone.

Besides, I hardly doubt ANY SP will give out anything but THEIR fictitious hobby persona as well.

 

[TeeJay]

I don't think that this would fall under PIPEDA,

Course it would
Collecting personal info then sharing it online with others
And if person had an axe to grind against an SP it is easy to get them (fines are huge, even assuming nothing illegal in how they share)

 

[AmiAndrews]

There is always going to be a few bad apples that ruin the bunch. Unfortunately we've all had to deal with an influx of fake bookings from general trolls, as well as the well known psycho from here you all know about. He's trying to collect our private incall locations and post the info online and out us to police, you've seen him post the threads daily and weekly that the mods are trying to delete. He never stops and has faked booked a lot of us over and over again and harassed us and threatened us as soon as we realized it was him.

Can someone please let me know via PM or email, or whatever, this trolls contact info, so I can add him to my blacklist, if I haven't already? Thanks ladies... )

 

[Ridgeman08]

You have no idea what it's like to be a provider and try and stay safe seeing people with zero references and no history in the industry. So thank you for encouraging anonymous men and lurkers to make our job harder and expect us to do business and putting ourselves as indy's at risk. Some of the "hobbyists" on here are unbelievable at times, only care about themselves and expect us to bend over backwards for a total stranger.

I don't think anyone is encouraging anyone to do anything they don't want to do Charlotte. Except maybe move on.

We all have to look after our own safety.

I will never give out anything but my first name, Hobby handle, hobby e-mail, hobby phone #, and I can provide numerous references if asked, but the line is drawn there.

When an SP starts asking for real names, places of employment, Facebook or LinkedIn info... etc., that's just not going to happen. Ever. Would you give out such information?

I didn't think so...

 

[doggystyle99]

You have no idea what it's like to be a provider and try and stay safe seeing people with zero references and no history in the industry. So thank you for encouraging anonymous men and lurkers to make our job harder and expect us to do business and putting ourselves as indy's at risk. Some of the "hobbyists" on here are unbelievable at times, only care about themselves and expect us to bend over backwards for a total stranger.

Charlotte: You take this whole thing about guys not wanting to provide personal information way too personal. Just move on if your business model is fine and working well then really this does not affect you, if it's not then it should be telling you something.
As many experience hobbyists have said and as I said earlier myself asking for references is one thing, a number or a name is fine but what gets people like me who are experienced in hobbying is that some of the SP's in the article have these guidelines and you as an SP are expecting new hobbyists who do not know any better to provide such personal information like their ID, their work info and their LinkedIn information, and social media feeds and try to make it seem that this practice should be normal and we as experienced hobbyist should not inform new members that this is not a standard practice because you say so.
Now I am not saying all SP's are out to get hobbyists just like not all hobbyist are out to book fake appointments, waste SP's time or potentially put them at risk, or be aggressive with SP's.

Again I said this earlier and will say it again. Privacy or anonymity is something that should be respected by both SP's and clients and if at any time any one person is breaking the privacy boundaries the other should refrain from seeing that person. Asking for one's work info, social media feeds to real name, ID verification and a way to verify work information is an invasion of privacy for hobbyist. But hey if you are willing to provide the above information I have no problem sharing mine either but then again you would never share that information to hobbyists.

Anyone who provides ID, or a LinkedIn, or something that can prove who they are and their working status." is FUCKING NUTS OR DOES NOT KNOW ANY BETTER.

This itself is one reason I prefer booking with agencies. Too many hoops to jump through for booking an appointment.

 

[canada-man]

We Spoke to Independent Sex Workers About How They Screen Clients
Jake Kivanc

By Jake Kivanc

Editorial Intern
January 29, 2016


"It's one of the few jobs where it has no wage gap, we set our own hours, we work independently, and we basically operate our own small businesses. We aren't given credit for that, though, because people think that if you sign up for this you're somehow doing something wrong," Olivia Grace, a Toronto escort, told me over the phone when I spoke to her about the nature of being an independent escort in Canada.

When many in the mainstream public think of escorts, they often think of brothels, madams, and pimps, but the reality is that many escorts work independently. Through review boards such as CAERF, and social media sites like Twitter and Instagram, indie escorts are able to advertise their services and fill their schedules without ever having to join an organization or align themselves under a boss. They are their own managers and they set their own rules, which means they also have to choose their own clients.

Whether it's the fear of losing money or being in physical danger, the way in which escorts vette and screen their clients to see if they're actually legit is quite important. We spoke to some independent escorts of different backgrounds to see how they make sure the people they're spending time with are for real.

Some of the names have been altered to protect the identities of the individuals interviewed.

Lisbeth Nova, 33, Toronto

VICE: How long have you been in the field for?
Lisbeth Nova: Two years almost. Independently.

Do you find that more of a strength or weakness, compared to being in an agency?
There is an upside and downside. For me personally, I'm very thankful I started independently. I'm also older than most others, I've got some street smarts. I'm very particular about who I see. I like to have a little bit of a chit-chat before I meet anybody.

What does being "particular" mean to you?
Well, first of all, they have to write me a proper email. I don't accept pizza order delivery-style write-ups. When you first start out—guys online know who's new and who isn't, so the weirdos really try to take advantage of that. When you're new, they think they can get away with a lot more, so you really need to establish yourself as somebody who doesn't take a lot of shit. As your name gets known, those emails stop. I prefer clients that actually have a brain.

What do you mean by "pizza delivery emails"?
I just don't accept emails that are like, Hey, meet me at 5. I want anal for two hours, bring your friend. Like, no. You have to tell me exactly who you are and sell yourself to me.

How do you determine when something's actually worth your time, outside of just sending a coherent email?
Usually I need a reference, meaning they need to forward me to someone in the community who they've already seen and can back them. If they're new—and I love new clients—then they need to send me ID, or a LinkedIn, or something that can prove who they are and their working status. Oftentimes I'll meet them in a public place first.

Do you ever get people trying to rip you off or pull something shady?
It does happen, not that often for me. The rule is, if there's too much back and forth with email, you know they're full of shit. If they're serious—they have all the money in an envelope ready to go—then it's usually fine. If they want to talk about their fantasies and stuff through email, then fuck off. I should be getting paid for discussing it. A lot of people like that are just jerking off at their laptop while you send those emails, but they'll never follow through. The people who are serious, it's all business.

Olivia Grace, 29, Toronto

VICE: Have you ever had encounters with law enforcement?
Olivia Grace: The law is different in Canada. If you are working together or in a company, you can be accused of pimping each other out, but working independently is generally OK. It's one of the few jobs where it has no wage gap, we set our own hours, we work independently, and we basically operate our own small businesses. We aren't given credit for that, though, because people think that, if you sign up for this, you're somehow doing something wrong. That's why I take immense care.

How do you safe do you feel as an independent versus being in an agency?
I personally think that independents are going to win out. I raised my prices during the recession, and I attracted more clients because of it. I wanted to have a certain calibre of gentlemen, and they came when I brought my prices up to $300 an hour. It's the average price here in Toronto, because it's an expensive city to live in, and a lot of SPs [service provider] use that money for things like a separate space where they can work—somewhere else than their actual home. It's not as disorganized as people think.

Jaynelle, 25, Montreal

VICE: As a trans woman, do you feel like you have to take more preventative measures than most sex workers?
Jaynelle: I feel that as a preoperative trans woman, I do. I pass, but not when it comes to sex, so you have to make that abundantly clear to people.

What are some of things you do to prepare for a client?
Well, first off, I only advertise on review boards when I need to. I have a good circle of clients that I can see regularly, and a lot of my interactions are done in person. Friends know where I am whenever I'm working, and I don't ever see anybody who I haven't built rapport with. I need to make sure they're totally comfortable with progressive ideas and aren't trying to pull something. It's been great for the most part.

For the most part?
Obviously, when some find out that I don't have bottom surgery yet they are turned off or grossed out or whatever. I have heard some rude remarks before, but I always make sure I prevent it before it gets to that point. I also only see people who can afford me—it just doesn't make sense and isn't smart to shoot for low-ballers.

Have you ever been put in danger?
No, but my friends have, and that scares me. All the deaths last year are concerning, because it reminds me that we're not out of the forest yet. There's still so much hate and that can be very hard to outrun. It's almost like another job on top of all this.

Why don't you work for an agency?
I don't like how much money they try and take, and I don't like being tied to entities. We don't see a lot of busts happen in terms of sex workers—mostly just clients—but I don't like the idea of being managed. I really do like my freedom.

Jordan, 19, Vancouver

VICE: You're the youngest person I've spoken to so far. How much experience do you have doing this?
Jordan: Not very much, about six months at most. I forget whether it was July or August when I started.

I've been told younger SPs have trouble with harassment and trolls. Do you get that?
Oh yeah, lots of messed up emails and stuff online. I'm not totally comfortable with putting myself out there yet, though, so I still operate under the radar. I think I haven't got the brunt of it yet.

What have you received?
Lots of people asking me if they can treat me like a slave—white dudes mostly. I can't tell if they think that, because I'm black, they can treat it as a kink and it's OK, or if they are just fucking assholes.

How do you screen people?
I always get them to send me pictures of them, and I send that to two friends who I trust dearly. I also get them to link me to their social media accounts, and if they're not clearly active or seem fake, I cut them off. I also only take e-Transfers and I take it before we meet.

One of the workers I spoke to said that having a separate pad to do your work is the dream, rather than having to do it all at your house or a hotel. Since you're new to this, how does that aspect affect you?
It's tough. I just got my own place, so now I have a bit more privacy, but it's still, like, not totally comforting to know that people are coming into my home when I am alone. I'm in school right now so I have to balance this life where people know me as one person, and then another where I do my work as somebody completely different. It's tough to keep those two separated.

Interviews have been edited for length and clarity.

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/we-spoke-to-independent-sex-workers-about-how-they-screen-clients?utm_source=vicefbca

why are you citing vice a publication that openly supports beastiality?

 

[Titalian]

Relax Charlotte, really. These are genuine concerns from clients especially the veterans on this board, I'm sure they have their story to tell on certain encounters.
Your taking this way out of context. I will give you my Handle, my phone no. my first name which every provider I have met knows., but that's where it stops.
Especially on first encounters for either you or I.

 

[The Sovereign]

This sounds of a woman's post !!

why? because it's different then yours?

 

[Titalian]

It's not out of context when they are quoting what lisbeth nova said about asking for a Linked In profile if the person has no reference. That's what they're pissed off about. And again I have explained numerous times that the lot commenting in this thread actually have a board presence so we at least know you're a real guy and not a fake booking or worse. So they are getting upset about things that would not happen to them, and they don't choose to see ladies who would ask for a real name if there's no reference.

I have had my exchange of e-mails with Miss Lisabeth Nova. I found her pics sexy, a petite woman which I liked.
It didn't go over that well not sure why, had to do with references which I gave her don't think I ever mentioned my handle.
but rarely does this happen to me. Maybe in the interview up top, she really did express those words. NOT GOOD ! But Its out there.
You have to able to read between the lines. Good lord this hobby is tough enough without having to deal with this shit.
And trust me, clients are not the only ones responsible for this.

 

[Titalian]

why? because it's different then yours?

Does your nose still grow when you speak out ?

 

[Titalian]

nope because I speak the truth.

10 posts, no history, really ? I will take your comments as hear say. Nothing else.