What are your plans when C36 finally kicks in ?

[MattRoxx]

I swear I'm going to revive this thread in one years time to show how ridiculous the paranoia is, not to mention seeing the new discipline so many TERB members are claiming to put on themselfs once the bill is passed.


Mark my words right now, other than a few minor raids here and there, POSSIBLEY slightly different wording on some ads in BP or something, it will be business as usual.

Agree, I plan to continue booking with the same agencies as now and to contribute reviews.
This treasonous Harper government wants us to be paranoid about sex, and about terrorists, and about cannabis, and about...my favourite vegetarian sausages but as far as I'm concerned they can go fuck themselves.

 

[black booty lover]

. Who knows how the law can be applied in 50 or 100 years if it is not challenged?

I didn't say it shouldn't be challenged. I merely mocked some of things I'm seeing and reading about how carried away people are getting about this.

There's probably over 100 threads currently on this board regarding this bill. Some of them being beyond idiotic. People discussing how they're not going to post on TERB anymore, or how they're going to re-word things when they post. What there "plans" post bill c-36. Like the Armageddon is coming. It's simply laughable. I've said this a bunch of times and I'll say it again. Use your head (the one on your shoulders), be smart and you have nothing to worry about. If people want to discuss how this is a wedge in our individual freedom, or how this is unconstitutional or whatever....great.

People keep starting threads about how their diet is going to change, what colour underwear they'll start wearing or how they're only going to hobby outside of Canada after the bill, and I'll continue to laugh and possible poke fun at them.

 

[Titalian]

Agree, I plan to continue booking with the same agencies as now and to contribute reviews.
This treasonous Harper government wants us to be paranoid about sex, and about terrorists, and about cannabis, and about...my favourite vegetarian sausages but as far as I'm concerned they can go fuck themselves.

Thank you Matt :thumb: I am with you !!!!

 

[escapefromstress]

This discussion is significant on many levels. In the near future, legal dangers for clients are probably no worse than before. But this is a wedge to pry our individual freedom. This new bill has some far reaching implications compared to previous law. Who knows how the law can be applied in 50 or 100 years if it is not challenged?

I agree - and it's important to realize that the discussions going on here and on other boards are the only discussions going on between clients, about clients/reviewers, unless there's other male forums I'm not aware of where men can be educated regarding C-36.

There's no harm in hypothesizing on all the possible outcomes, and it's far better to have thought it through now and be too prepared, than to bury our heads in the sand, pretend nothing is happening, find out at the last minute, and be totally unprepared for what might happen.

 

[black booty lover]

I agree - and it's important to realize that the discussions going on here and on other boards are the only discussions going on between clients, about clients/reviewers, unless there's other male forums I'm not aware of where men can be educated regarding C-36.

There's no harm in hypothesizing on all the possible outcomes, and it's far better to have thought it through now and be too prepared, than to bury our heads in the sand, pretend nothing is happening, find out at the last minute, and be totally unprepared for what might happen.

Read my rebuttal (post #644)

 

[escapefromstress]

Read my rebuttal (post #644)

I understand what you're saying.

We have no right to judge how other people choose to respond to the new laws. Maybe they have more at stake, more to lose potentially ...

I was a SP for 10 years and had no plans to quit, until Bill C-36 came into being. I chose to plan my own exit strategy and get out of the industry, while other SP's are choosing to adapt and continue working. Leaving the industry might seem like an extreme or foolish response to some, but it was the best choice for me.

 

[Titalian]

Agree, I plan to continue booking with the same agencies as now and to contribute reviews.
This treasonous Harper government wants us to be paranoid about sex, and about terrorists, and about cannabis, and about...my favourite vegetarian sausages but as far as I'm concerned they can go fuck themselves.

I understand what you're saying.

We have no right to judge how other people choose to respond to the new laws. Maybe they have more at stake, more to lose potentially ...

I was a SP for 10 years and had no plans to quit, until Bill C-36 came into being. I chose to plan my own exit strategy and get out of the industry, while other SP's are choosing to adapt and continue working. Leaving the industry might seem like an extreme or foolish response to some, but it was the best choice for me.

And I support your decision Sarah, It not only has to do with prostitution, this bill is bordering on, fundamental human rights.

 

[Siocnarf]

We have no right to judge how other people choose to respond to the new laws. Maybe they have more at stake, more to lose potentially ...

I think this is just human nature. People freak out about unlikely dangers, such as Ebola, getting killed by ISIS or being arrested at an incall. We are impressed not really by actual odds, but rather by how much they strike our imagination. It is simply the fear of some risk we are not used to. We are perfectly used to the dangers of cancer, car crash or AIDS and these don't stop us from smoking, driving or having sex.

Personnally, I've spent way too much time reading and getting informed on prostitution law. Most people didn't really understand the old law too well, much less the new one, so it's normal that they are worried. Most people will not be reassured by the voice of reason, because the voice of reason is sometimes wrong and the consequences for being wrong can be terrible. When the Nazis came to power many people called other to reason and said it was nothing to worry about. (this is just an extreme example; not to compare the present situation with what happened to the jews, but the way people think remains the same.)

In the present instance, I think the new law simply recapitulates the old one. Clients can be arrested in much the same way as before, at incall or on the streets. All third parties can also be arrested despite what the government wants us to believe. In recent years the police didn't really press charge on workers even before the new law.

 

[escapefromstress]

I think this is just human nature. People freak out about unlikely dangers, such as Ebola, getting killed by ISIS or being arrested at an incall. We are impressed not really by actual odds, but rather by how much they strike our imagination. It is simply the fear of some risk we are not used to. We are perfectly used to the dangers of cancer, car crash or AIDS and these don't stop us from smoking, driving or having sex.

Personnally, I've spent way too much time reading and getting informed on prostitution law. Most people didn't really understand the old law too well, much less the new one, so it's normal that they are worried. Most people will not be reassured by the voice of reason, because the voice of reason is sometimes wrong and the consequences for being wrong can be terrible. When the Nazis came to power many people called other to reason and said it was nothing to worry about. (this is just an extreme example; not to compare the present situation with what happened to the jews, but the way people think remains the same.)

I am personally grateful for the time that you, reverdy, Emily, Jessica and many others have spent getting informed on prostitution law. The thoughtful, informed discussions taking place here are appreciated by ten's of thousands who read these threads.

:thumb:

 

[Siocnarf]

I am personally grateful for the time that you, reverdy, Emily, Jessica and many others have spent getting informed on prostitution law. The thoughtful, informed discussions taking place here are appreciated by ten's of thousands who read these threads.

Thank you! :happy: However, this is only a ''hobby'' to me and am I am not an authority (I feel reverdy is much more knowledgeable). The important is for people to do a little research for themselves and not just believe people on the internet, no matter how convincing. When it comes to this specific question I would advise people to get informed on the present mentality of their local LE more than on the details of the new law. The new law can be interpreted and applied any way the LE and crown would want to. Don't forget the legislative is just 1/3rd of the legal power and doesn't mean much alone without the crown and police.

 

[black booty lover]

I think this is just human nature. People freak out about unlikely dangers, such as Ebola, getting killed by ISIS or being arrested at an incall. We are impressed not really by actual odds, but rather by how much they strike our imagination. It is simply the fear of some risk we are not used to. We are perfectly used to the dangers of cancer, car crash or AIDS and these don't stop us from smoking, driving or having sex.

Personnally, I've spent way too much time reading and getting informed on prostitution law. Most people didn't really understand the old law too well, much less the new one, so it's normal that they are worried. Most people will not be reassured by the voice of reason, because the voice of reason is sometimes wrong and the consequences for being wrong can be terrible. When the Nazis came to power many people called other to reason and said it was nothing to worry about. (this is just an extreme example; not to compare the present situation with what happened to the jews, but the way people think remains the same.)

In the present instance, I think the new law simply recapitulates the old one. Clients can be arrested in much the same way as before, at incall or on the streets. All third parties can also be arrested despite what the government wants us to believe. In recent years the police didn't really press charge on workers even before the new law.

This was extremely well written.

 

[Titalian]

I think this is just human nature. People freak out about unlikely dangers, such as Ebola, getting killed by ISIS or being arrested at an incall. We are impressed not really by actual odds, but rather by how much they strike our imagination. It is simply the fear of some risk we are not used to. We are perfectly used to the dangers of cancer, car crash or AIDS and these don't stop us from smoking, driving or having sex.

Personnally, I've spent way too much time reading and getting informed on prostitution law. Most people didn't really understand the old law too well, much less the new one, so it's normal that they are worried. Most people will not be reassured by the voice of reason, because the voice of reason is sometimes wrong and the consequences for being wrong can be terrible. When the Nazis came to power many people called other to reason and said it was nothing to worry about. (this is just an extreme example; not to compare the present situation with what happened to the jews, but the way people think remains the same.)

In the present instance, I think the new law simply recapitulates the old one. Clients can be arrested in much the same way as before, at incall or on the streets. All third parties can also be arrested despite what the government wants us to believe. In recent years the police didn't really press charge on workers even before the new law.

Thank you for this reality, and also, on our own, Human Nature.

 

[fuji]

Dont confuse evidence and procedure at trial with crossing the border. A borde agent can deny entry upon suspicion and belief. You are then free to make a formal appeal. But by then, your holiday will likely have been buggered anyway.

Their standard of proof is lower than what would count in a criminal trial, but there is still a regulatory standard that they adhere to. There is also case law associated with it arising from people appealing immigration decisions, etc., and all of this is why you need an immigration lawyer if you wind up with anything potentially worrying on your record, like a conviction for prostitution, or really a conviction for anything, as understanding what convictions are a deal breaker and what is no biggie at the border isn't simple.

For example, a conviction for prostitution might not count against you if it's part of a broader law that includes other sorts of disorderly conduct (true in some states, not true of C36). Although someone was convicted on evidence of prostitution, but under a law that captured both prostitution and gambling, then they would get a pass because USCIS would give them the benefit of the doubt as to which element they were convicted under (even if reading the court transcript made it clear.) On the other hand, for the purposes of US immigration, a Canadian conditional discharge counts as a conviction, whereas it wouldn't in a US criminal court, but an absolute discharge doesn't, because they wrote a definition of "conviction" into the US immigration act that fits one but not the other.

 

[Alfonzo]

I think this is just human nature. People freak out about unlikely dangers, such as Ebola, getting killed by ISIS or being arrested at an incall. We are impressed not really by actual odds, but rather by how much they strike our imagination. It is simply the fear of some risk we are not used to. We are perfectly used to the dangers of cancer, car crash or AIDS and these don't stop us from smoking, driving or having sex.

Personnally, I've spent way too much time reading and getting informed on prostitution law. Most people didn't really understand the old law too well, much less the new one, so it's normal that they are worried. Most people will not be reassured by the voice of reason, because the voice of reason is sometimes wrong and the consequences for being wrong can be terrible. When the Nazis came to power many people called other to reason and said it was nothing to worry about. (this is just an extreme example; not to compare the present situation with what happened to the jews, but the way people think remains the same.)

In the present instance, I think the new law simply recapitulates the old one. Clients can be arrested in much the same way as before, at incall or on the streets. All third parties can also be arrested despite what the government wants us to believe. In recent years the police didn't really press charge on workers even before the new law.

Contracting Ebola or having my balls chopped off by an ISIS lunatic would be preferable over being arrested at an incall. Just ask my wife.

 

[Titalian]

Their standard of proof is lower than what would count in a criminal trial, but there is still a regulatory standard that they adhere to. There is also case law associated with it arising from people appealing immigration decisions, etc., and all of this is why you need an immigration lawyer if you wind up with anything potentially worrying on your record, like a conviction for prostitution, or really a conviction for anything, as understanding what convictions are a deal breaker and what is no biggie at the border isn't simple.

For example, a conviction for prostitution might not count against you if it's part of a broader law that includes other sorts of disorderly conduct (true in some states, not true of C36). Although someone was convicted on evidence of prostitution, but under a law that captured both prostitution and gambling, then they would get a pass because USCIS would give them the benefit of the doubt as to which element they were convicted under (even if reading the court transcript made it clear.) On the other hand, for the purposes of US immigration, a Canadian conditional discharge counts as a conviction, whereas it wouldn't in a US criminal court, but an absolute discharge doesn't, because they wrote a definition of "conviction" into the US immigration act that fits one but not the other.

AW yes the US. Must we not forget!! Is this the only other country in the WORLD !!

 

[fuji]

AW yes the US. Must we not forget!! Is this the only other country in the WORLD !!

It is by far more important to Canadians than any other country in general. Not being able to travel to the US seriously limits your career in Canada.

If you lived in Europe or Asia it would be less of a big deal but since you live in Toronto it is the only nearby country and by FAR the one you are most likely to have business relationships with

 

[TeasePlease]

Contracting Ebola or having my balls chopped off by an ISIS lunatic would be preferable over being arrested at an incall. Just ask my wife.

LMAO. True.

I will only bet that enforcement will not be absolute, nor will it be completely absent. As others have mentioned, it's simply a matter of odds. Some guys are happy to be the test case. Others would rather catch ebola.

(it also occurs to me that some guys prefer BBFS, too. We each engage in this hobby at the level that suits our own comfort.)

 

[GPIDEAL]

Deny deny deny. Her making claims about you is her word against yours untested in court. They may delay your entry (by weeks possibly) while they investigate but at the end of the day a claim by her isn't proof. However if you admit something ("I used to be her customer but we are just friends now ") that is the end for you.

I would strongly suggest clearing customs separately and meeting at the gate after reminding her to wipe her phone and ideally never having put anything incriminating in writing.

She should not even know your real name if possible.

If they had proof (and there are regulations defining proof) that you used or intended to use a prostitute then you would be inadmissible. Generally proof is either something in your own words admitting it, or a conviction.

Dont confuse evidence and procedure at trial with crossing the border. A borde agent can deny entry upon suspicion and belief. You are then free to make a formal appeal. But by then, your holiday will likely have been buggered anyway.

Thanks guys. Excellent points.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Thank you Matt :thumb: I am with you !!!!

Titalian, nothing wrong with VETTING this proposed legislation through discussion of possible if not hypothetical scenarios.

We just want to be prepared how to conduct ourselves when the time comes, and how to act or respond in certain dicey situations.

 

[GPIDEAL]

LMAO. True.

I will only bet that enforcement will not be absolute, nor will it be completely absent. As others have mentioned, it's simply a matter of odds. Some guys are happy to be the test case. Others would rather catch ebola.

(it also occurs to me that some guys prefer BBFS, too. We each engage in this hobby at the level that suits our own comfort.)

True lol.