What have we learned ?

Cruise

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Jul 14, 2002
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well i think they did that is because they dont want the sars to disturb the social stablity.

second, what is ICU.
anyways, dont worry about that too much. i think whoever has sars, or has this the symton has already seen the doctor, and so i dont there are any people with sars on the street in toronto.

except in china, becuase people have it doesn't know that they have it. thats why it spreads out.
 

Quinn

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Apr 20, 2003
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I wonder if anyone's had second thoughts about seeing sp or mpa due to this SARS dilema? I had thought about it for a quick second. Think what obvious close contact there is there -maybe me just being a little paranoid?
 
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Its all good and under control in Canada, I think .... hehehe

Its Asia thats the main concern. I mean prostitution is technically "accepted" which just spreads this shit even faster. Plus, with poor health care over there ... many, I mean many people are going to die .... a sad sad event ...

Nah ... I ain't paranoid anymore ... I used to be though ... so I just go along doing my own little thing ...
 

DonBusch

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Feb 1, 2003
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I'm beginning to think that its only a matter of time before SARs becomes a major problem in the United States as well as other parts of Canada. Have a friend working in Singapore and she's telling me that despite all the stringent measures taken there and their first rate healthcare system, SARS cases are still popping up in new places. It will be a very bad sign if they can't beat SARS in Singapore since its the place with the best chances of success.
 

ice_dog

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Jan 13, 2002
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For Cruise:

You don't preseve "social stability" by covering a potential crisis.
What they di in China was basically sweeping under the rug !. Where is the accountability ?

----------------------------------------------------------------

For Dave,

It is under control in Vancouver, they are closing the SARS clinic due to lack of patients. In GTA, it is far from over. It is far more serious than it was three weeks ago. Why the difference between Vancovuer and Toronto ? I will point the finger at the provincial Health Minister. Guess Queens Park never learned the lesson from the Walkerton crisis.

Check this out :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/sars_2cities.html
 
Jan 7, 2003
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Toronto
www.ra-media.org
Who do you believe?

It's difficult to figure out what is truth and what's hyperbole. Some are crying epidemic/pendemic, others are saying business as usual.

It makes me very nervous nonetheless, in light of the nature of our work. As such, I've suspended everything other than solo shoots for the next few weeks just to err on the side of caution.
 

xarir

Retired TERB Ass Slapper
Aug 20, 2001
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It's not that easy ...

Toronto was unfortunate in that one of the original global index cases landed here. From a global perspective, SARS really became an issue when 9 people stayed at the same hotel in Hong Kong and became infected. One of the 9 people returned home to Toronto which is when it all started here. This person could just as easily have lived in Vancouver, or Calgary, or Montreal, or St. John or ...

The Canadian index case was an elderly lady who initially had symptoms of a bad cold. In any hospital, you don't quarantine patients who have a cold. By the time the world figured out that SARS is not just a cold, it was too late.

Statistically Toronto is most likely to be hit with emerging infectious diseases. This is because Toronto is the largest port of entry to Canada. If you fly anywhere in Canada, you generally come through Toronto. (With a few exceptions obviously.) That's why the federal government built a level 4 bio-lab in Etobicoke - it's close to the airport. People who live in the area though did the old Not In My Backyard so the facility was never fully opened as a level 4 unit. That's why the National Microbiology Lab is in Winnipeg - no one really complained about having a level 4 lab there. But as SARS showed us, when The Big One hits, it's not going to start in Winnipeg.

You can't fault the government or the fine folks at Scarborough Grace for not initially containing SARS. How could they know? Blame China for not disclosing what was really going on in Guangdong province. I subscribe to an email newsletter from the Infectious Disease Society; I remember that it was clear from late October onwards that there was something strange going on over there, but there was no disclosure. Scientists from around the world were requesting more info but there was none. It's only in March when SARS became a reality that the situation hit the common media. Had the Chinese government been more forthcoming, thigs likely would have turned out differently.

What you can blame the government for is its clear lack of capability to deal with an emerging infectious disease. So far, in the grand scheme of things, SARS has been a lightweight. We only have a few thousand infections and 14 deaths out of a population of millions. That's pretty damn good. But our luck is not going to hold out forever. Canada is not prepared to deal with a large-scale, high-mortality infectious disease. SARS proves this.
 
xarir ... I absolutely agree with you. Its definitely the Chinese government's fault.

Although my family are Chinese from Hong Kong, we really dislike many thinks the Chinese government is doing. Me and my dad are so pissed whenever we hear on the news the "ugly" things the Chinese government is doing. They have handled this very very poorly.

Now that they have recognized how severe it is, two top officials in Beijing have been fired right on the spot.

You are right, the Chinese governemnt needs to be more transparent. But, like I said earlier, this possibly could be a military experiment that got out of hand ... you never know. If its a military thing, then, they've got a good reason to cover it up ...

This is one of many bad things the government has done. Yet, the Communist Party has also done many many a great things for modern China. I am not saying its a "good" government ... all I am saying is they've handled this issue really badly, has done many bad things in the pass ... but, without the CCP China would not be where it is today ...

Only time will tell where China will be in the future ...
 

ice_dog

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Jan 13, 2002
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Re: It's not that easy ...

xarir said:
...
You can't fault the government or the fine folks at Scarborough Grace for not initially containing SARS. How could they know? ....
Obviously, you did not read that story in details . It says that

" The World Health Organization was aware of the mystery disease, at the time calling it Acute Respiratory Syndrome in China. The WHO issued a series of reports Feb. 11, Feb. 12, Feb. 14 and Feb. 20.

At the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control, they were watching all of that.

"I think everybody was tracking ProMed, which issued a broadcast e-mail in mid-February," says the centre's Dr. David Patrick.of Centre for Disease Control in Vancouver ...."


I don't expect the government to stop the spread of SARS, but they should have received the emails from Pro-Med. Yet , there was absolutely no warning, no direction from the provincial health offical to the hospitals and doctors., no contingency plan, no leadership from Queen's Park. Vancouve has just as much as asians as Toronto, but they are closing the SARS clinic ! All Eernie Eves could say is the governemnt cannot compensate SARS victims financially .Is this all he can do ?
 
Please ice_dog, your making it sound like its an "Asian disease". Yes, SARS originate in Canton Province, China but you can't call it an uniquely Asian thing ...

I mean story has it that AIDS came out of Africa. So can you call it a "Black man's disease"?

Additionally, how about small pox back in the days when the "White man" came to North America and gave it to the Natives? So can you call it a "White man's disease"?
 

ice_dog

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Jan 13, 2002
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Dave,

Don't put words in my mouth ! When did I say it is asian disease ?You are the one who said it sounds like asian disease.

All I have pointed out are:
(1) the public health official of China should not have tried to cover up, and (2) the Ontario Government should have demonstrated some leadership , when I compare Vancouver with Toronto .
 

ice_dog

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Jan 13, 2002
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Looks like you and I have different definition for for the term asian disease. It is documented that the first case fo SAR occured in Southern China. But we cannot call it asian disease, because it affects all human being. It will be asian diseasne if it only affects asian, which is impossible. In other words, where it originated is not an issue. The issue is how to stop it.

Listen Dave, this is not the time to be so sensitive and accuse others of racial overtone. The fact is that SARS is here and it is going to stay for quite some time. It is about time we set aside our differecne, being asian or otherwise, and come up with some strategy to put this disease under control. This is the time people will look up to the leader for direction. This is one of those defining moments for great leaders.
 

xarir

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Aug 20, 2001
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Re: Re: It's not that easy ...

ice_dog said:
Obviously, you did not read that story in details . It says that

" The World Health Organization was aware of the mystery disease, at the time calling it Acute Respiratory Syndrome in China. The WHO issued a series of reports Feb. 11, Feb. 12, Feb. 14 and Feb. 20.
Actually I did read the story. But more to the point, I read the notices from WHO and from ProMed mail as they were issued. Forgive me for saying so, but I don't think you did the same.

First off, the World Health Organization did not issue "reports" on those dates; they issued press releases. There's a gigantic difference between a well researched, thoroughly documented report and a press release. Having said that, the initial press release from WHO dated Feb 11 reads (in full):

WHO has received reports from the Chinese Ministry of Health of an outbreak of acute respiratory syndrome with 300 cases and 5 deaths in Guangdong Province.

A team from the Ministry of Health is working with health officials in the province to investigate the outbreak and collect samples for laboratory analysis.


You have to understand, this is a very run-of-the-mill press release from WHO. Also around that time period were press releases on Yellow Fever, Meningococcal disease, cholera, suspected Lassa fever and accute haemorrhagic fever. In other words, this press release on what we now know is SARS simply got lost in the background noise.

There were other updates periodically throughout Feb. On the 27th, WHO issued another press release that read in part:

The Department of Health in Hong Kong has intensified its surveillance for influenza among patients with influenza-like symptoms or atypical pneumonia. No unusual increase in influenza activity has been detected over the past few weeks.

WHO is continuing to work closely with health authorities in Beijing, China and Hong Kong. Reagents for laboratory diagnosis of influenza A(H5N1) have been made available to the Ministry of Health in Beijing, the National Influenza Centres and to other members of the WHO Global Influenza Surveillance Network.


So even in late February, WHO was still operating under the (false) assumption that this outbreak was merely a resurgence of H5N1 influenza. We now know that this was totally incorrect - it's not even the same virus that causes H5N1 & SARS.

There was one more press release on March 12 that noted a death in Vietnam from an atypical pneumonia, and that this pneumonia seemed to have caused 23 cases of nosocomial infection. The WHO noted:

Until more is known about the cause of these outbreaks, WHO recommends patients with atypical pneumonia who may be related to these outbreaks be isolated with barrier nursing techniques.

Barrier Nursing Techniques = wear a mask & gloves. Pretty much standard in North America for everything. You'll note that WHO did not recommend Proper Isolation Techniques, which is a totally different ballgame.

Finally on March 15, WHO took the unusual step of issuing a Global Travel Advisory. This was A Big Deal. In this press release WHO finally called the disease SARS.

My point is that no one, not WHO, not any scientists in the free world knew before March 15 that SARS was definitively a threat.

Now, Patient 1 (Toronto) travelled to Hong Kong on Feb 13 and returned home on Feb 23. She died on March 5.

So even in early March the world was still operating under the assumption that what was happening in China, in Hong Kong and in Vietnam was nothing more than a rapid spread of H5N1 (which can be sucessfully treated with standard methods if diagnosed properly). In mid March we learned that this was not the case.

It was, quite simply, too late. The infections in Canada had already started. Thus the fine people at Scarborough Grace and even the Canadian (Ontario) government could not have done anything to prevent this from happening.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts